Trump's failed leadership

[commonsense]

As I said, and as you seem to secretly agree... the end result measured in infections, fatalities, and all other harms thus far has been pretty much the same as it would have been had he lost the election.

I don't really know. I think his early denial of the warnings (which resulted in a delayed response) must have had a cost. There are probably some dead people who could attest to that.

I'm not convinced it makes any sense to hold somebody accountable for being a potential thing if they are not actually being that thing.

Well, it's like holding a raging drunk with a gun accountable for waving it around and threatening people. It is already disruptive, and has likely cost and destroyed lives that have been discounted. Naturally we shouldn't have to wait until he pushes a button that undeniably blows us all up before we can feel justified to hold him accountable for being foolish and dangerous.

Perhaps you should take some comfort in the observation that presidential power in these matters is really very limited. Trump can say stupid shit all day long - and he will excercise that option - but when it comes to actually doing stuff he is constrained by what is possible.

I wish I could take comfort in that idea. I'm just not sure it's true. The rules seem changed with Trump. Outrageously dangerous behavior such as his widespread public stoking of hate and divisiveness, and dishonest demeaning of people and groups, would have never been allowed with other modern U.S. presidents -- yet, now it seems accepted as a "new toxic normal". He has fired anyone who disagreed with him or got in his way. He has the corrupt backing of a government party that does not want to lose power at ANY COST. He constantly lies and disregards almost all advice. So I don't feel as confident as you do that he is constrained.

In other words you don't mind how many children and innocents your presidents murder, you are fine with them as long as they say all the right 'warm fuzzy' things, and behave in a way that you consider CORRECT in a political sense.
The PC truly are the most loathesome hypocrites on the face of planet earth.

Veg,

Just because someone wants their presidents to act PC, it doesn’t mean that anyone wants their presidents to murder children and innocents. Please use a different approach.

[Lacewing]

None of his talk about ending the shutdown at Easter came true either.

It may have emboldened all of his religious followers who are gathering despite the lockdowns. (He said he wanted to see people in churches for Easter service.)

And nobody really expects him to talk sense or say what he means - even his fans tacitly recognise him as a complete bullshit artist. I have no idea why they like it so much, but there you are.

Your incendiary language about his mishandling of Covid-19 meaning peopel are insane to consider voting again for him is more like holding the drunk responsible for a murder spree he hasn't comitted rather than being intoxicated in posesion of a firearm.

No, it's like telling tavern owners not to let the raging drunk back in with his firearm, else they are insane if they do so.

he has - reluctantly for sure - deferred to experts in the end very much against his own dangerous instincts.

That's why I briefly pondered the idea of him being medicated... like some kind of anti-psychotic drug. He does seem kind of dopey and monotone... more than usual.

I'm not expecting him to become all presidential all of a sudden, or to make one of those attempts to unify the nation, or do any of the decent things for the decent reasons that Obama would have. But his party relies very heavily on the votes of the elderly, so I am just going to assume he will prevent them from all dying even if the reasons aren't terribly excellent.

That's a good point. Okay, I feel slightly comforted... thank you.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

In other words you don't mind how many children and innocents your presidents murder, you are fine with them as long as they say all the right 'warm fuzzy' things, and behave in a way that you consider CORRECT in a political sense.
The PC truly are the most loathesome hypocrites on the face of planet earth.

Wtf Veggie? Of course I care about such things. Why are you projecting your stupid misguided rage at me?

Mr. Dangerpants and I are having a reasonable back-and-forth discussion. Go rage somewhere else or get a fucking grip.

'Mr Dangerpants'

I must have missed your posts criticising Hillary for her rabid warmongering, and Obama for his weakness and mass murder.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I don't really know. I think his early denial of the warnings (which resulted in a delayed response) must have had a cost. There are probably some dead people who could attest to that.


Well, it's like holding a raging drunk with a gun accountable for waving it around and threatening people. It is already disruptive, and has likely cost and destroyed lives that have been discounted. Naturally we shouldn't have to wait until he pushes a button that undeniably blows us all up before we can feel justified to hold him accountable for being foolish and dangerous.


I wish I could take comfort in that idea. I'm just not sure it's true. The rules seem changed with Trump. Outrageously dangerous behavior such as his widespread public stoking of hate and divisiveness, and dishonest demeaning of people and groups, would have never been allowed with other modern U.S. presidents -- yet, now it seems accepted as a "new toxic normal". He has fired anyone who disagreed with him or got in his way. He has the corrupt backing of a government party that does not want to lose power at ANY COST. He constantly lies and disregards almost all advice. So I don't feel as confident as you do that he is constrained.

In other words you don't mind how many children and innocents your presidents murder, you are fine with them as long as they say all the right 'warm fuzzy' things, and behave in a way that you consider CORRECT in a political sense.
The PC truly are the most loathesome hypocrites on the face of planet earth.

Veg,

Just because someone wants their presidents to act PC, it doesn’t mean that anyone wants their presidents to murder children and innocents. Please use a different approach.

Ditto my response to Ms Wing.

[Lacewing]

I've must have missed your posts criticising Hillary for her rabid warmongering, and Obama for his weakness and mass murder.

Oh, would that be more PC enough for you? Do I need to discuss everyone to your satisfaction, or can I talk about what I want to?

[FlashDangerpants]

he has - reluctantly for sure - deferred to experts in the end very much against his own dangerous instincts.

That's why I briefly pondered the idea of him being medicated... like some kind of anti-psychotic drug. He does seem kind of dopey and monotone... more than usual.

OOooooh, I don't feel like I'm about to improve your mood here.

You know how his lawyers all end up going to jail in the end because they break the law for him? Well he has a bit of a streak going with doctors too. Remember that one who blatantly let the patient write his own medical report with the words "astonishingly excellent", and then his next doctor (the one who said of Trump... "He has incredible genes") he sort of got into trouble for writing bad prescriptions and crashing cars under the influence of substances.... There's a reason why the Donald needs such dirty lawyers, and there's reason why he needs iffy doctors too.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I've must have missed your posts criticising Hillary for her rabid warmongering, and Obama for his weakness and mass murder.

Oh, would that be more PC enough for you? Do I need to discuss everyone to your satisfaction, or can I talk about what I want to?

It wouldn't be PC at all, because the PC never have anything to say against war because it's not a fashionable position to take at this time. As I keep pointing out, PC is ALL about image, mob-'think', and conforming to political fashion trends. It's false and shallow by definition.

[Lacewing]

OOooooh, I don't feel like I'm about to improve your mood here.

You know how his lawyers all end up going to jail in the end because they break the law for him? Well he has a bit of a streak going with doctors too. Remember that one who blatantly let the patient write his own medical report with the words "astonishingly excellent", and then his next doctor (the one who said of Trump... "He has incredible genes") he sort of got into trouble for writing bad prescriptions and crashing cars under the influence of substances.... There's a reason why the Donald needs such dirty lawyers, and there's reason why he needs iffy doctors too.

Crap! There have to be some honorable people who can infiltrate the ranks for the good of all. I want to believe the best of humankind (independent of politics and religion) can save the day somehow! This can't be all we are.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Now that Bernie Sanders is out of the picture (he was too good for Americans anyway) I can't wait to see Trump win by the biggest landslide in US history, if only to see the looks on the faces of all those PCfuckturd phonies

[Lacewing]

As I keep pointing out, PC is ALL about image, mob-'think', and conforming to political fashion trends. It's false and shallow by definition.

Well you're applying it indiscriminately and out of context to every conversation that you feel like raging into.

You mindlessly projectile spew your rage and venom which makes YOU (as you say) "one of the most loathesome hypocrites on the face of planet earth" for calling OTHER people loathesome uncaring murderers. Your bitchiness is fueled by stupidity and a lack of self-control, and you don’t show compassion for anyone except superficially for the “ children and innocents” that you claim to speak on behalf of. But you’re so full of hatefulness, you would scare the hell out of any of THEM... so in essence, you are a fucking joke.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

As I keep pointing out, PC is ALL about image, mob-'think', and conforming to political fashion trends. It's false and shallow by definition.

Well you're applying it indiscriminately and out of context to every conversation that you feel like raging into.

You mindlessly projectile spew your rage and venom which makes YOU (as you say) "one of the most loathesome hypocrites on the face of planet earth" for calling OTHER people loathesome uncaring murderers. Your bitchiness is fueled by stupidity and a lack of self-control, and you don’t show compassion for anyone except superficially for the “ children and innocents” that you claim to speak on behalf of. But you’re so full of hatefulness, you would scare the hell out of any of THEM... so in essence, you are a fucking joke.

The PC never recognise themselves (or don't want to) in the same way that religious nuts always say 'I'm not religious'.
Very few Americans understand what PC even means. A few do though, and they are like minuscule oases in the great barren desert of American imbecility.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

As I keep pointing out, PC is ALL about image, mob-'think', and conforming to political fashion trends. It's false and shallow by definition.

Well you're applying it indiscriminately and out of context to every conversation that you feel like raging into.

You mindlessly projectile spew your rage and venom which makes YOU (as you say) "one of the most loathesome hypocrites on the face of planet earth" for calling OTHER people loathesome uncaring murderers. Your bitchiness is fueled by stupidity and a lack of self-control, and you don’t show compassion for anyone except superficially for the “ children and innocents” that you claim to speak on behalf of. But you’re so full of hatefulness, you would scare the hell out of any of THEM... so in essence, you are a fucking joke.

PC phoniness at its best. Look and learn. Actually Ms. Wing, you are a lot 'bitchier' than I am, and far more prone to 'losing your cool' and attacking on a personal level.

[Lacewing]

The PC never recognise themselves (or don't want to) in the same way that religious nuts always say 'I'm not religious'.

Such as how you don't recognize your crazy-ass self?

Very few Americans understand what PC even means.

It probably means different things to different people for different reasons. Do you imagine that only your view is applicable?

A few do though, and they are like minuscule oases in the great barren desert of American imbecility.

Oh, tell us more about the FEW CHOSEN ONES, which is a favorite claim on this forum. And the claimant always imagines themselves as one of those chosen few! Funny that no one ever claims to be left out of the chosen few.

[commonsense]

I've must have missed your posts criticising Hillary for her rabid warmongering, and Obama for his weakness and mass murder.

Oh, would that be more PC enough for you? Do I need to discuss everyone to your satisfaction, or can I talk about what I want to?

It wouldn't be PC at all, because the PC never have anything to say against war because it's not a fashionable position to take at this time. As I keep pointing out, PC is ALL about image, mob-'think', and conforming to political fashion trends. It's false and shallow by definition.

When I think PC, I think kumbaya. Obviously, I don’t understand what PC is. What is it, really?

[Lacewing]

PC phoniness at its best.

How is it phony when I'm being completely genuine and honest with my communication and what I think? And how is it PC when I'm clearly not trying to pretend warm and fuzzy ideas/behavior? Admit it... you would call ANYTHING PC phoniness... because you really don't have any discernment, do you?

Actually Ms. Wing, you are a lot 'bitchier' than I am, and far more prone to 'losing your cool' and attacking on a personal level.

I may attack, but I'm not losing my cool -- I'm enjoying every minute of it. It's like theater. People here inspire my responses.

Being bitchy isn't something I'm likely to get accused of, but I'm guessing you've heard it quite a lot. So you can keep your crown.