Philosophy Now Forum

ken wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:46 am
I can never keep up with you dontaskme.

One post you will write, "You can't actually die", but the next you write, "and then you die".

Well do know why that is?

It's because I can that's why.

It's all just words...who knows what life is, what death is, except what is made-up using words. Humans love a good story.

What book are you going to curl up with tonight with your nice hot cup of cocoa?

Can you not decipher between what is real and unreal yet, obviously not?

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:36 pm

ken wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:46 am
I can never keep up with you dontaskme.

One post you will write, "You can't actually die", but the next you write, "and then you die".

Well do know why that is?
It's because I can that's why.
It's all just words...who knows what life is, what death is, except what is made-up using words. Humans love a good story.
What book are you going to curl up with tonight with your nice hot cup of cocoa?
Can you not decipher between what is real and unreal yet, obviously not?

Humans do love a good story.
One of them is that the spirit lives on after the body dies. Therefore, 'you' (the spirit) does not actually die.
Another is that 'you' (The body) dies; you live and then you die.
Quite a few more out there...stories or philosophies of life...

Each one comes with label attached. So that when you browse along the shelves, you can choose which suits you best. Some fact, some fiction. Then there's faction: a mix.

Unfortunately, life and death are not 'just words'. They are as real as the hair on your head.
Some face that fact and deal with the realities; accepting all the pain and pleasures involved.
Others detach - sometimes due to anxiety. So many different stories we can tell about life, at any point along the line

Of course, we all have our stories - our perceptions are often incorrect. Especially the assumptions we make about others in an apparently opposing faction.
'Fear of the other' can be manipulated by story-tellers to disastrous effect.
Xenophobia just one example.
It is easy to turn one group against another, using psychological techniques.
Issues of self-esteem and hypersensitivity or paranoia also play into it.

And so it goes...

'So it goes' - 3 famous words from 'Slaughterhouse-Five' hold the key to understanding the humanism that underpins Kurt Vonnegut's work. Fatalism, stoicism...of life and death.

marjoram_blues wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:29 pm
Humans do love a good story.
One of them is that the spirit lives on after the body dies. Therefore, 'you' (the spirit) does not actually die.
Another is that 'you' (The body) dies; you live and then you die.

There is nobody in a body, what or who is driving the dreambus ''thought'' cannot reach or ever comprehend, but rest assured the body is in safe hands.

Words are descriptions of an illusory conditioned knowledge, none of which is true. All just imaginary concepts.
Nothing dies, because nothing was born. There's just life living itself, imagining itself.
Nothing is real..except in this conception, as imagined by no one.

marjoram_blues wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:29 pmUnfortunately, life and death are not 'just words'. They are as real as the hair on your head.

No, nothing is real, what is real is the idea something is real. No thing is real.

The good news is that shit happens...the other good news is nothing happens. This is, you are, the nothing happening. It's subtle.

Take it or leave it...because this is all in my humble opinion.

The end of knowledge is the end of suffering...now, you are never not here. Welcome home.

Check it out for yourself, or not. It's your suffering or liberation metaphorically speaking.

.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:10 pm Sorry of course I meant skilled

That's a relief, I was worried for a moment there.

What is real is what exists which is ALL THERE IS which is the Universe. What is less real is the subjective interpretation human
beings regularly apply to what is real. It is less real not because thoughts are not real but because what they say is not true. As
a false thought is part of the Universe but what it says about the Universe is not true. It is both real and false at the same time

Dontaskme

I have considered such thoughts about suffering and liberation before...with a few philosophical bones in my body, religio-spiritual inclination combined with off/on hedonism, that was pretty much par for the course...of life

It's fascinating to peer through another lens - gaze at horizon and wonder.
Even if we can't always see I to I, do you think it is possible to resolve our conflicting ideas in a spirit of tolerance and goodwill?
Can we 'Agree to disagree' ?
I hope so.

P.S. Have you read Vonnegut ? I did years ago...perhaps it's time for a re-run from another time and space
P.P.S Have you thought about what kind of a funeral you would like ?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:55 pm What is real is what exists which is ALL THERE IS which is the Universe. What is less real is the subjective interpretation human
beings regularly apply to what is real. It is less real not because thoughts are not real but because what they say is not true. As
a false thought is part of the Universe but what it says about the Universe is not true. It is both real and false at the same time

And any thoughts on 'humanism' ?

marjoram_blues wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 pm
P.S. Have you read Vonnegut ? I did years ago...perhaps it's time for a re-run from another time and space

No, I've stopped reading my own fairy tales. It got a bit boring reading about myself all the time, now I just take selfies instead. But even that's all just vanity and entertainment, but hey, it's better than doing nothing I suppose.

marjoram_blues wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 pmP.P.S Have you thought about what kind of a funeral you would like ?

What, do you really think that's you in that there casket?

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:14 pm

marjoram_blues wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 pm
P.S. Have you read Vonnegut ? I did years ago...perhaps it's time for a re-run from another time and space

No, I've stopped reading my own fairy tales. It got a bit boring reading about myself all the time, now I just take selfies instead. But even that's all just vanity and entertainment, but hey, it's better than doing nothing I suppose.

marjoram_blues wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 pmP.P.S Have you thought about what kind of a funeral you would like ?

What, do you really think that's you in that there casket?

.

I think I might make up a story about what kind of funeral you would have...
To avoid one, I guess there are flashier ways for my dead body to be disposed of...

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:14 pm do you really think that's you in that there casket?

Not yet, I would think.

marjoram blues wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:
What is real is what exists which is ALL THERE IS which is the Universe. What is less real is the subjective interpretation human
beings regularly apply to what is real. It is less real not because thoughts are not real but because what they say is not true. As
a false thought is part of the Universe but what it says about the Universe is not true. It is both real and false at the same time

And any thoughts on humanism

I am a humanist although I do not describe myself as such preferring atheist or nihilist instead. And therefore I do agree with the basic principle
of humanism that human beings are ultimately responsible for their own existence and we should collectively strive to make it the best possible
one for all of humanity. Not an ideal ever in danger of being realised. But it does not mean it still cannot be worked towards. Even if in my case
it merely extends to self improvement given how I am a virtual recluse and therefore have nothing to do with other human beings. But I am still
growing as a human being in my own way. Insignificant as that may be in the grand scheme of things. And that will carry on till my very last day

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:11 pm
I am a humanist although I do not describe myself as such

And yet you just have done.

ken wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:24 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:36 pm

ken wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:00 am
My goal coming here in this forum was and still is to learn how to express better.

This can be further reduced to:

- keep doing the same thing, over and over, i.e., practicing the same scales.
or ...
- try something new.

You know, they say brevity is the spice of life.

Try saying everything you have to say in a few words.
For practice.
In the quest for better expression.
Try saying it in six. Words.

I can not even ask, How do I even begin to explain how the Mind and the brain works? in just six words.

What do you even think it is that I want to say?

You try saying everything you have to say in just a few words. I will even let you use more than six words.

Conjecturing about mind isn't expression improvement.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:05 am

ken wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:24 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:36 pm

This can be further reduced to:

- keep doing the same thing, over and over, i.e., practicing the same scales.
or ...
- try something new.

You know, they say brevity is the spice of life.

Try saying everything you have to say in a few words.
For practice.
In the quest for better expression.
Try saying it in six. Words.

I can not even ask, How do I even begin to explain how the Mind and the brain works? in just six words.

What do you even think it is that I want to say?

You try saying everything you have to say in just a few words. I will even let you use more than six words.

Conjecturing about mind isn't expression improvement.

Using 'conjecturing' here is not correct expression.

Mind fullness overloads mindfulness with preconceptions.