Philosophy Now Forum

Walker wrote: Most thoughtful and considerate.

I'm not advocating it, I'm just saying it's an option.

Walker wrote:

thedoc wrote:The boy is 10 years old and I believe in 5th grade which makes him young for that grade, my own grandson is 11 and in 5th grade.

It goes the other way too.

When the kid is a lot older than his grade, the younger ones can suffer.

However, in a small private school that teaches all grades, older students are taught to look out for the younger ones.

Here’s a relevant, disturbing story recently in the news that illustrates the point. It makes a parent wonder, is my child safe when entrusted to the judgment and values of government educators?

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2017- ... #read_more
(warning, graphic language)

That link. That's all I need to know.

Immanuel Can wrote:

henry quirk wrote:...my kid is having significant problems at school. Being the odd man out, he's targeted, bullied, and made to feel 'less than' and 'wrong'...I don't expect my kid to be 'saved' or 'spared'. No, in my desperate pleadings I simply ask that his will be bolstered so that he can bear the miseries....

I would want to know more, Henry. Bullying is nasty stuff; but there's also always a story back there somewhere, as to how and why it's happening...I mean purely in human terms. Let's set aside the God talk for the minute (Can you believe I'm saying that? ). Let's just look at the human dynamic and work from there.

Is your son high, medium or low in academics? Athletics? Social perception? Does he have a substantial vocabulary? Is he being targeted for some specific objective? What's the form of the bullying...verbal, social, physical, or all of the aforementioned? In what contexts is the aggression the worst? Is it involving cyber-stuff, or only in person?

I'm not saying you should tell me here: private message me if you don't feel like elaborating in open forum.

There are a whole bunch of issues a caring father should want to know before he goes forward. The danger is of "answering" the wrong question, and thus of producing unhelpful advice or side effects.

I'd like to be helpful if I can.

More 'blame the victim' 'he must have done something or 'offended' the bullies in some way' bullshit. Just as the jews and gypsies etc. must have provoked the nazis somehow.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Arising_uk wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Oh right. Blame him.

Not blaming him, asking what actions or behaviours are leaving him open to such attention.

Why would he have to be doing anything? And yes, that is blaming him. You are such a school teacher, even down to the buzzwords.

It isn't about blaming him. Often bullies pick on the weakest, most provocable or least retaliatory victims, that get their attention. They will often be loners, with few 'fight worthy' friends, as the more popular kids would have many jumping to their defence.

So the question is what is it about the boy that is getting the bully's attention? What is it about him that makes him a target and possibly address that to try to help him. It could be that he stutters or that he's the smallest kid. Martial arts wouldn't necessarily help the stutterer. Singing might. Just the physical activity of boxing, or martial arts, could help his confidence or allow the endorphins to flow: anything that assists the coping mechanism to deal with bullying or get the target off his back.

I hung up a sparring bag and bought my son sparring gloves, when he was a bit older. His confidence was so low he didn't want to join clubs, even though he did judo for two years, aged 6 to 8. It not only helped build up his strength but it helped him to get his anger out, too. It was definitely a good purchase for the home.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:More 'blame the victim' 'he must have done something or 'offended' the bullies in some way' bullshit. ...

It's nothing to do with offending them, it's about perceived weakness or difference.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:...
I wonder how the PC would explain all the school suicides. They seem to think their meddling has ended bullying and turned schools into warm fuzzy love-fests. Schools don't do anything about it now either, thanks to the PC. They have adopted some crap called the 'no blame policy' which actually means 'blame the victim policy'. ...

I don't know how it is in your country or the US but in my day they caned you publicly and privately and in the class room a standard punishment was the ruler across the knuckles or palm and bullying was rife. Today my son goes to an large inner-city mainly non-white comprehensive and when I ask about bullying he looks at me like I'm mad as they are seriously on-top of such stuff.

Arising_uk wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:More 'blame the victim' 'he must have done something or 'offended' the bullies in some way' bullshit. ...

It's nothing to do with offending them, it's about perceived weakness or difference.

So what? What's the boy supposed to do about that? This makes me sick. If someone is a victim of crime, like for example a rape or home invasion, do you think the police should sit them down and ask them what they did to 'provoke it'? And if you had a horrible crime committed against you, what would YOU think if the police said to you 'we use the 'no blame policy' here. We would like you to shake hands with the 'temperamentally- challenged' gentleman who did this'.

Arising_uk wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:...
I wonder how the PC would explain all the school suicides. They seem to think their meddling has ended bullying and turned schools into warm fuzzy love-fests. Schools don't do anything about it now either, thanks to the PC. They have adopted some crap called the 'no blame policy' which actually means 'blame the victim policy'. ...

I don't know how it is in your country or the US but in my day they caned you publicly and privately and in the class room a standard punishment was the ruler across the knuckles or palm and bullying was rife. Today my son goes to an large inner-city mainly non-white comprehensive and when I ask about bullying he looks at me like I'm mad as they are seriously on-top of such stuff.

Yes. There's plenty of evidence that it has ended and that schools are 'on top of it' You son might not even be aware of it. Bullying doesn't necessarily involve physical attacks or obvious name-calling or stealing lunchboxes you know.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:So what? What's the boy supposed to do about that? ...

Identify what is making him a victim and address it. If that means learning to kick the shit of them so be it, if it means changing schools so be it, if it means finding ways to get the courage to fight back so be it. I'd also be very surprised that if this was reported to the school they'd not take steps to address it. A fair percentage of bullying is nipped in the bud just by calling the bully's parents in and informing them of the situation.

This makes me sick. If someone is a victim of crime, like for example a rape or home invasion, do you think the police should sit them down and ask them what they did to 'provoke it'?

Before the police even get involved you should have developed at least some strategy for dealing with such events.

And if you had a horrible crime committed against you, what would YOU think if the police said to you 'we use the 'no blame policy' here. We would like you to shake hands with the 'temperamentally- challenged' gentleman who did this'.

Where do you get this stuff from, your version of the Daily Mail?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Yes. There's plenty of evidence that it has ended and that schools are 'on top of it'. You son might not even be aware of it. Bullying doesn't necessarily involve physical attacks or obvious name-calling or stealing lunchboxes you know.

It will never end but compared to my day he and my daughter report that it is at a minimum compared to what I describe as it is addressed quickly. Kids are pretty much always aware of what is going on in their school groups.

Arising_uk wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:So what? What's the boy supposed to do about that? ...

Identify what is making him a victim and address it. If that means learning to kick the shit of them so be it, if it means changing schools so be it, if it means finding ways to get the courage to fight back so be it. I'd also be very surprised that if this was reported to the school they'd not take steps to address it. A fair percentage of bullying is nipped in the bud just by calling the bully's parents in and informing them of the situation.

This makes me sick. If someone is a victim of crime, like for example a rape or home invasion, do you think the police should sit them down and ask them what they did to 'provoke it'?

Before the police even get involved you should have developed at least some strategy for dealing with such events.

And if you had a horrible crime committed against you, what would YOU think if the police said to you 'we use the 'no blame policy' here. We would like you to shake hands with the 'temperamentally- challenged' gentleman who did this'.

Where do you get this stuff from, your version of the Daily Mail?

Said like a true SJW school teacher. Why would I have to read the Daily Mail? (I bet you do). The 'no blame policy' (started in the US of course) has been implemented everywhere. I've seen it at work first hand on many occasions. And WTF does 'address it' mean anyway?
Sorry, but you come across as completely clueless and unimaginative. The only difference now is that children do it in different ways. They don't make fun of unusual names any more (because face it, absurd names are par for the course now), but that has hardly ended bullying.
I think it's a lot worse now. It's the crossing into the internet that is unbearable for them. It makes them feel completely exposed and unable to escape.
Of course, it's not just children who are affected. This woman killed herself not long after this. Hmm. These cowardly internet troll bullies do appear to fit a bit of a 'stereotype' don't they?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASg8x9b2o0M

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: More 'blame the victim' 'he must have done something or 'offended' the bullies in some way' bullshit.

I didn't say any of that. You read it in.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Said like a true SJW school teacher. ...

More jargon?

Who's a school teacher? I taught post-16's and NEETs.

Why would I have to read the Daily Mail? (I bet you do). ...

You should write for them.

Best you don't gamble.

The 'no blame policy' (started in the US of course) has been implemented everywhere. I've seen it at work first hand on many occasions. And WTF does 'address it' mean anyway?

It means calling the bully and their parents in. They suspend bullies at my kids school if it continues but then the inner-city schools had policies in place long before as they were having to deal with serious issues long before other schools.

Sorry, but you come across as completely clueless and unimaginative. The only difference now is that children do it in different ways. They don't make fun of unusual names any more (because face it, absurd names are par for the course now), but that has hardly ended bullying.
I think it's a lot worse now. It's the crossing into the internet that is unbearable for them. It makes them feel completely exposed and unable to escape. ...

Then their parents are fucking idiots as my kids understand to close their accounts, change their phones and re-pick their friends carefully.

Of course, it's not just children who are affected. This woman killed herself not long after this. Hmm. These cowardly internet troll bullies do appear to fit a bit of a 'stereotype' don't they?

Lmfao! This from you!!

Arising_uk wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Said like a true SJW school teacher. ...

More jargon?

Who's a school teacher? I taught post-16's and NEETs.

Why would I have to read the Daily Mail? (I bet you do). ...

You should write for them.

Best you don't gamble.

The 'no blame policy' (started in the US of course) has been implemented everywhere. I've seen it at work first hand on many occasions. And WTF does 'address it' mean anyway?

It means calling the bully and their parents in. They suspend bullies at my kids school if it continues but then the inner-city schools had policies in place long before as they were having to deal with serious issues long before other schools.

Sorry, but you come across as completely clueless and unimaginative. The only difference now is that children do it in different ways. They don't make fun of unusual names any more (because face it, absurd names are par for the course now), but that has hardly ended bullying.
I think it's a lot worse now. It's the crossing into the internet that is unbearable for them. It makes them feel completely exposed and unable to escape. ...

Then their parents are fucking idiots as my kids understand to close their accounts, change their phones and re-pick their friends carefully.

Of course, it's not just children who are affected. This woman killed herself not long after this. Hmm. These cowardly internet troll bullies do appear to fit a bit of a 'stereotype' don't they?

Lmfao! This from you!!

Yes. From me. You might like to look in the mirror some time too. Annihilating someone in a debate is hardly the same as telling someone over and over to kill herself, that she's ugly, usless etc. etc.....And they KNEW who she was, so it was deeply personal. I'm sure you couldn't give a rat's arse if I call you an idiot. Dammit. School teachers have so much power. It's enough to make you weep with frustration.
You are clueless enough to be a school teacher. I thought you said you are a school teacher at some point. You make it sound as if you know everything that goes on in the playground.
I thought you had finally discovered what jargon is. That's the way it is with you. Get your hopes up that there is brain there, only to have them dashed in the very next comment. It's a rollercoaster ride. Oh, and I'm sorry if that makes you want to kill yourself. Please do NOT do that!
And before you make a comment about 'free speech', inciting someone to commit suicide and making their life a misery with harassment hasn't been legal for a very long time.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Yes. From me. You might like to look in the mirror some time too. ...

Oh! The irony.

Annihilating someone in a debate is hardly the same as telling someone over and over to kill herself, that she's ugly, usless etc. etc.....And they KNEW who she was, so it was deeply personal. I'm sure you couldn't give a rat's arse if I call you an idiot. Dammit. School teachers have so much power. It's enough to make you weep with frustration. ...

Become one then and change things.

You are clueless enough to be a school teacher. I thought you said you are a school teacher at some point. You make it sound as if you know everything that goes on in the playground. ...

I just tell you what my kids told me and what my students used to report.

I thought you had finally discovered what jargon is. ...

I always knew. you use it as something else.

That's the way it is with you. Get your hopes up that there is brain there, only to have them dashed in the very next comment. It's a rollercoaster ride. Oh, and I'm sorry if that makes you want to kill yourself. Please do NOT do that!
And before you make a comment about 'free speech', inciting someone to commit suicide and making their life a misery with harassment hasn't been legal for a very long time.

She's needs to get a life and stop posting on and reading twatter. Funny how you're so PC about some things.