Page 4 of 6
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:44 pm
by Dubious
Every philosophy site should have a history forum which most often would simply be a secular version of a religious forum as contained in almost every philosophy website. History itself is the medium and stage which manifests the most active strands of philosophy in collusion with events of any period.
The British Empire! Now that would be a subject ripe for exploration beginning with the premise of being more parasitical than any empire that ever existed.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:50 pm
by Walker
Prove it.
Sure.
I won't show you the words of Jesus that advocate cutting off heads and otherwise killing people, because they don't exist.
That's your proof.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:35 am
by Arising_uk
Dubious wrote:... more parasitical than any empire that ever existed.
Depends what you mean by 'parasitical' but probably. It also accidently spread the institutions of democracy around the world.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:15 am
by Dubious
Arising_uk wrote:Dubious wrote:... more parasitical than any empire that ever existed.
Depends what you mean by 'parasitical' but probably.
It also accidently spread the institutions of democracy around the world.
That can be debated but since this is not a history forum there's no point in going further into it. This quote by Edward Gibbon is a true summary of just about any empire:
The history of empires is the history of human misery.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:39 am
by duszek
Islam has developed in areas where people liked to fight a lot and still do, it seems to me.
It´s cultural.
We in Europe have lost the fighting spirit as far as crude violence goes.
We fight now mentally (bullying, giving a hard time etc.) which results in depressions and mental disorders.
This is reflected in our respective religions.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:38 am
by Walker
Top ten reasons why Islam is NOT the religion of peace
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... easons.htm
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:21 pm
by Walker
Charles “The Hammer” Martel
“Charles Martel did indeed halt of series of Muslim military successes and turned the tide for Christendom in its fight against an aggressively spreading Muslim influence.”
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:30 pm
by Walker
“When Charles Martel defeated the Muslims in 732, he changed the course of history. Precisely 100 years after the death of the Prophet Mohammed in 632, his Arab followers, after having fought across thousands of miles and
conquered lands from Arabia to Spain, found themselves in Gaul, the territory that would become modern-day France, facing a hitherto little-known people, the Christian Franks. There, on October 10, in the year 732, one of history’s most decisive battles took place, demarcating the extent of
Islam’s western conquests and ensuring the survival of the West.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... nd-ibrahim
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:49 pm
by duszek
Yes.
And at Vienna in the year ... (?) Jan III Sobieski and his troops stopped the invasion of Turks.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:46 pm
by Walker
Yes. That came later.
But in the 100 years after the death of The Prophet, Islam became the greatest military force on the planet and conquered vast geographies in the tradition of Rome. Busy little beavers, weren’t they. The salad days of purposefully moving forward to conquer the world.
And they spread the most advanced culture (arguably) of the time, in just a heartbeat of time. Then the times moved on and the culture stagnated, because the words of The Prophet are absolute and culture must adapt to those words. And the guidance for life is based on those words and times of so long ago, rather than civil law, and those words trump all, including civil law. In the U.S., when there’s trouble in Paris, it’s called urban youth. When there’s trouble in ‘merica it’s called domestic T, cause it ain’t towheads from Kansas. Sharia trumping Civil. No thankez vous.
And here’s the really nasty part. Modern technology suits taxing into compliance for the Philosophy of Totalitarianism.
Just imagine a protection racket of taxation based on Sharia Law. Think the right way, no problem for you.
It contradicts freedom of mind.
It’s David vs Goliath, taxation and technology on Goliath’s side.
What are the odds of that happening to you.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:14 pm
by Arising_uk
The history of empires is the history of human misery.
Its also the history of civilization.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:25 pm
by Arising_uk
Walker wrote:Top ten reasons why Islam is NOT the religion of peace
At least it's not hypocritical a la Christianity.
World War One.
The English pogrom of the Jew.
The English pogrom of the Danes.
The auto De fe.
The Crusades.
The Russian pogrom of the Jew.
The Catholic collusion in the holocaust.
The extermination of the Tasmanians.
The nigh on extermination of the American Indians.
The slave trade.
The Gulf Wars.
The Afghanistan foray.
Etc, etc.
Islam is an offshoot of Christianity. You gets what you sow I think. And what we are seeing now us the result of ill thought out American forign policy.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:14 pm
by Walker
Arising_uk wrote:At least it's not hypocritical a la Christianity.
If this premise is true, then the thread premise is bolstered from yet another dimension, and this postulated uniqueness of the religion is further evidence of its radicalism.
Another dimension of the thread’s premise: The intolerance of Islam combined with its cultural stagnation makes the religion both uninterested in, and incapable of, co-existing in a world community.
If the middle-east wasn’t sitting on top of an ocean of oil, it would be the same as it was 200 years ago. They’re landlords who sold out because the land was worthless, there’s no blood and glory in digging holes to elevate the quality of life for the masses, thus no interest and capability in digging holes. Took some Westerners from the tradition of Enlightenment to see the future. Islam is rooted in the past.
*
The United States has yet to recognize the Armenian Genocide. Shame.
Philosophically, failure to recognize does not cause non-existence, just as non-cognizance of evil does not negate evil.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:39 am
by Arising_uk
Walker wrote:
If this premise is true, then the thread premise is bolstered from yet another dimension, and this postulated uniqueness of the religion is further evidence of its radicalism.
It's only 'radical' from a specific imaginary Christian viewpoint as it was NT Christianity that was fairly radical compared to the bulk of religions, I don't consider Buddhism a religion. If you include the OT as a part of Christianity, which many Christians appear to do then they are much of a much.
Another dimension of the thread’s premise: The intolerance of Islam combined with its cultural stagnation makes the religion both uninterested in, and incapable of, co-existing in a world community.
Indonesia appears to be doing ok?
My take is that the only reason Christianity is co-existing is that by and large it's societies have become secular with respect to their churches. Change this at it'll be as violent and intolerant as before.
If the middle-east wasn’t sitting on top of an ocean of oil, it would be the same as it was 200 years ago. They’re landlords who sold out because the land was worthless, there’s no blood and glory in digging holes to elevate the quality of life for the masses, thus no interest and capability in digging holes. ...
We agree then, it's all about OIL and Christian rapaciousness. You really think the empires that took the oil did it for the betterment of the masses?
Took some Westerners from the tradition of Enlightenment to see the future. Islam is rooted in the past.
And yet the irony is that without Islam there would have been no Enlightenment. An Enlightenment that the Christian Church did much to forestall.
Philosophically, failure to recognize does not cause non-existence, just as non-cognizance of evil does not negate evil.
I don't think there is 'evil' just positive intentions. Don't like someone's actions find the positive intention and try to satisfy it another way. If this is impossible then you can fight if you wish.
Re: Islam IS radical
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:53 am
by Walker
Arising_uk wrote:Walker wrote:
If this premise is true, then the thread premise is bolstered from yet another dimension, and this postulated uniqueness of the religion is further evidence of its radicalism.
It's only 'radical' from a specific imaginary Christian viewpoint as it was NT Christianity that was fairly radical compared to the bulk of religions, I don't consider Buddhism a religion. If you include the OT as a part of Christianity, which many Christians appear to do then they are much of a much.
Another dimension of the thread’s premise: The intolerance of Islam combined with its cultural stagnation makes the religion both uninterested in, and incapable of, co-existing in a world community.
Indonesia appears to be doing ok?
My take is that the only reason Christianity is co-existing is that by and large it's societies have become secular with respect to their churches. Change this at it'll be as violent and intolerant as before.
If the middle-east wasn’t sitting on top of an ocean of oil, it would be the same as it was 200 years ago. They’re landlords who sold out because the land was worthless, there’s no blood and glory in digging holes to elevate the quality of life for the masses, thus no interest and capability in digging holes. ...
We agree then, it's all about OIL and Christian rapaciousness. You really think the empires that took the oil did it for the betterment of the masses?
Took some Westerners from the tradition of Enlightenment to see the future. Islam is rooted in the past.
And yet the irony is that without Islam there would have been no Enlightenment. An Enlightenment that the Christian Church did much to forestall.
Philosophically, failure to recognize does not cause non-existence, just as non-cognizance of evil does not negate evil.
I don't think there is 'evil' just positive intentions. Don't like someone's actions find the positive intention and try to satisfy it another way. If this is impossible then you can fight if you wish.
You are most rational. What a pleasure to hear in this world.
Christian rapaciousness.
I can see the sun reflecting off knights' armor as they drill for oil, just the way the sun reflected off the mirrored surface of that Airstream in Arizona, hiding a living space by blending the boarders of the capsule into the surrounding world, reflecting earth and sky and blending into the open space, even with riveted irregularities interrupting the mirror's unblemished continuity.
Well just imagine. You’re out there somewhere living on the dirt, trying to scratch out some way to live. Plant some seeds, hide water for the scorching season, use the onions and whatever else you grow to liven up anything else you manage to cultivate: goats or chickens. You live in a hut, cook over open fire.
Then the conquerers come. Nothing to conquer here but a mind. No plunder, though he will lose his chickens. Here’s the deal, Nobody. You just paid a tax with those chickens. That’s our price for allowing you to follow our rules. Oh, you noticed the swords? Already they live in mythology for what we’ve done with them. Care to hear?
So the conquerers tell. Show and tell. The guy scratching himself while he scratches in the dirt says to himself, personally I think religion is a bunch of hooey. So what the hell, I’ll follow the rules. Beats the alternative, swordsman. Those swords are radically cool dude and you know what? I've got nothing to live or die for. That rain god ain’t been cutting me any breaks lately, so screw him and praise Allah. Then after awhile the mind changes, as do the thoughts that it registers, though the man himself stays the same. And he says – I remember the old ones. They followed the rules and it didn’t hurt them too much. In the end we all die anyway. Not to mention the emotional comfort of tradition that I feel following the rituals.
Extrapolate into the present, to the traditions, the call to prayer in the morning light, and so on ...
- “Whose bread I eat, his song I sing.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsnZi-Kn4pU (are these praises factually true?)