Philosophy Now Forum

About that "helping hand" business.
The women - and men - in Trudeau.2's new cabinet are competent, experienced, responsible people. The women were not recruited for the sake of decorating Ottawa; they worked damn hard to get there, and have, up until now, been denied an opportunity in the highest offices. How well they can do these top jobs, we shall see.

About the "handout" business.
Every time there a social service is introduced - such as public education, or pension or health care - there is a huge outcry from the minority who don't need these services, because they can afford private school, private doctors and dividends. Why they can afford these things is that resource allocation has always favoured their class and trickle-up profits continue to do so. Those who pay the least tax always pretend that they are being forced to "help" the shiftless, amoral lower classes. In fact, all the other classes are pooling resources for mutual support. The rich, who benefit most from organized society, contribute least and complain most bitterly.
If we were primitives, we'd have an emergency supply for any of our number who needed at any time for any reason. We would take it for granted as the right of all members; we would contribute to it as an obligation of all members. Because we are civilized, this most obvious of social co-operations is the result of long, hard struggle.
Of course, lately the noisy right has taken to vilifying even such basic concepts as 'social justice'.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Veg and Leo, I'm not sure what you are arguing about, but I think you agree about the main issue.

I'm what you would call 'left wing' but it's guilt-ridden PC twats like Leo who are destroying the 'left' and driving people to the 'right'. People don't like being told that they HAVE to be TOLERANT towards alien cultures that hate us (it's never the other way around with them), and to 'suck up' multiculturalism (another meaningless bullshit term), when everyone accepts that it's ok to go to war when a foreign culture is trying to take over your country, yet you have to 'tolerate' it with a big smile on your face and say nothing when your own Govt INVITES it to take over.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Veg and Leo, I'm not sure what you are arguing about, but I think you agree about the main issue.

I'm what you would call 'left wing' but it's guilt-ridden PC twats like Leo who are destroying the 'left' and driving people to the 'right'. People don't like being told that they HAVE to be TOLERANT towards alien cultures that hate us (it's never the other way around with them), and to 'suck up' multiculturalism (another meaningless bullshit term), when everyone accepts that it's ok to go to war when a foreign culture is trying to take over your country, yet you have to 'tolerate' it with a big smile on your face and say nothing when your own Govt INVITES it to take over.

I do not accept that there is any "culture" that hates "US". Who the fuck is us, and who says what one culture or the other "hates" about "us". I'm puzzled why you think this issue is relevant to child poverty?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Veg and Leo, I'm not sure what you are arguing about, but I think you agree about the main issue.

I'm what you would call 'left wing' but it's guilt-ridden PC twats like Leo who are destroying the 'left' and driving people to the 'right'. People don't like being told that they HAVE to be TOLERANT towards alien cultures that hate us (it's never the other way around with them), and to 'suck up' multiculturalism (another meaningless bullshit term), when everyone accepts that it's ok to go to war when a foreign culture is trying to take over your country, yet you have to 'tolerate' it with a big smile on your face and say nothing when your own Govt INVITES it to take over.

I do not accept that there is any "culture" that hates "US". Who the fuck is us, and who says what one culture or the other "hates" about "us". I'm puzzled why you think this issue is relevant to child poverty?

Fine. Live in your dream world then. I'm sure all those dis-placed muslims are going to be full of love and respect for the 'West' after it destroyed their countries and forced them to leave their homes. Japan doesn't give a flying fuck about Western political correctness--it won't let muslims in, and makes no apologies for it. Japan treasures its own culture and people, and good for them.

Psst. I think she doesn't approve of Muslims.
Is it too late to refrain from rearranging the middle east to suit western interests? I think so. Therefore, the best policy is to keep bombing and ignore the people whose homes no longer exist.

Skip wrote:Psst. I think she doesn't approve of Muslims.
Is it too late to refrain from rearranging the middle east to suit western interests? I think so. Therefore, the best policy is to keep bombing and ignore the people whose homes no longer exist.

Not at all. It's the US that should be taking all of them. My own country didn't participate in its filthy, racist rape of Iraq. Stupid PC twat can't think past your nose. The moronic US caused the mess, and it just keeps blundering on, making it worse and worse.
How do you feel about taking ALL of the refugees in your home state, with most in your neck of the woods? I'm sure you would welcome that with open arms. Perhaps a refugee camp could be set up in your street, or you could give up your house for a few dozen of them.

So, it started with the US.
European colonization, two world wars, British Mandate, carving up the region for commercial and strategic advantage, shoving minorities behind artificial frontiers dominated by hostile majorities, installing and arming military dictatorships, conveniently overlooking human rights abuses for oil stock.... never happened. Poor old Lawrence never even happened.

I do agree that Narnia never participated or benefitted and should therefore be excused from taking any refugees.

Skip wrote:So, it started with the US.
European colonization, two world wars, British Mandate, carving up the region for commercial and strategic advantage, shoving minorities behind artificial frontiers dominated by hostile majorities, installing and arming military dictatorships, conveniently overlooking human rights abuses for oil stock.... never happened. Poor old Lawrence never even happened.

I do agree that Narnia never participated or benefitted and should therefore be excused from taking any refugees.

What the hell are you on about? Stupid fucking yank. If you actually had an education system you would know there are more than two countries on the planet. So why don't you think the US should be taking all of them? You mean you don't want them all? Why not? I'm sure your population could absorb several million angry, dis-placed muslims.

Yes, a good public education system would certainly be worth having. Of course, with free textbooks and supplies. Preferably a breakfast and lunch program for children of low income families. Regular checkups, eye and dental examinations and maybe a monthly clothing exchange. School-bus service, at least in winter, and definitely in areas where children might have to cross danger zones. After-school care for the younger ones. Enrichment programs and physical education. A quality library wouldn't come amiss.

Skip wrote:Yes, a good public education system would certainly be worth having. Of course, with free textbooks and supplies. Preferably a breakfast and lunch program for children of low income families. Regular checkups, eye and dental examinations and maybe a monthly clothing exchange. School-bus service, at least in winter, and definitely in areas where children might have to cross danger zones. After-school care for the younger ones. Enrichment programs and physical education. A quality library wouldn't come amiss.

Nice diversion.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: I'm what you would call 'left wing' but it's guilt-ridden PC twats like Leo who are destroying the 'left' and driving people to the 'right'. People don't like being told that they HAVE to be TOLERANT towards alien cultures that hate us (it's never the other way around with them), and to 'suck up' multiculturalism (another meaningless bullshit term), when everyone accepts that it's ok to go to war when a foreign culture is trying to take over your country, yet you have to 'tolerate' it with a big smile on your face and say nothing when your own Govt INVITES it to take over.

I do not accept that there is any "culture" that hates "US". Who the fuck is us, and who says what one culture or the other "hates" about "us". I'm puzzled why you think this issue is relevant to child poverty?

Fine. Live in your dream world then. I'm sure all those dis-placed muslims are going to be full of love and respect for the 'West' after it destroyed their countries and forced them to leave their homes. Japan doesn't give a flying fuck about Western political correctness--it won't let muslims in, and makes no apologies for it. Japan treasures its own culture and people, and good for them.

Your having an internal dialogue. Maybe try to start your own thread, and explain it more clearly?

Skip wrote:Psst. I think she doesn't approve of Muslims.
Is it too late to refrain from rearranging the middle east to suit western interests? I think so. Therefore, the best policy is to keep bombing and ignore the people whose homes no longer exist.

And your comments relate to child poverty - how?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Skip wrote:Psst. I think she doesn't approve of Muslims.
Is it too late to refrain from rearranging the middle east to suit western interests? I think so. Therefore, the best policy is to keep bombing and ignore the people whose homes no longer exist.

And your comments relate to child poverty - how?

Thread are organic things. It's natural for them to go off on tangents. Anyway, it started with my comment about the people giving the 'left' a bad name, which I thought was highly relevant to the thread topic, and the muslim thing was a natural progression from there.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Skip wrote:Yes, a good public education system would certainly be worth having. Of course, with free textbooks and supplies. Preferably a breakfast and lunch program for children of low income families. Regular checkups, eye and dental examinations and maybe a monthly clothing exchange. School-bus service, at least in winter, and definitely in areas where children might have to cross danger zones. After-school care for the younger ones. Enrichment programs and physical education. A quality library wouldn't come amiss.

Nice diversion.

Not a diversion at all - it's right back on topic.

I'd only add free school dinners too.- for kids that would other wise go hungry in the day time.

And street-proofing. Sex education, monitoring for high risk of abuse or drug-use.
Most important: offering the children of marginal people a way to change direction - a way out, alternatives, opportunities, good example, leadership and fellowship, so that they are not left with the bleak choice of joining a gang, becoming a mule or being an outcast. Some police organizations have made attempts to do this, as have social and religious organizations. But it's wrong to leave so many children to the hit-and-miss help of charities. We need to take national responsibility for them: co-ordinate all the efforts and close all the cracks they fall through.

(Sorry I went off topic before. I'll ignore the provocation next time.)