Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:07 am**

I was randomly youtubing movie clips, and found this. Towards the end, in response to what the main character says, somebody says, "That's some deep shit." Is this an example of something "deep"?

http://youtu.be/i3O-kYwM8qY

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:38 am**

Jaded Sage wrote:
A_Seagull wrote:IMO A deep thought is one that has many implications and perhaps alters one's perception of the world.

In this definition, a deep thought would necessarily have to be simple, yet powerful.
Often, it is good to start by stating certainties. I am certain it does not necessarily follow from that definition that a deep thought must be simple.

.

Are not all good ideas, in their essence, simple?

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:24 pm**

A_Seagull wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:
A_Seagull wrote:IMO A deep thought is one that has many implications and perhaps alters one's perception of the world.

In this definition, a deep thought would necessarily have to be simple, yet powerful.
Often, it is good to start by stating certainties. I am certain it does not necessarily follow from that definition that a deep thought must be simple.

.
Are not all good ideas, in their essence, simple?

No. Where did you get that idea? For example, it might take a complicated strategy to win something. Now, I favor simplicity as much as anyone else (I think simplicity is good), but that doesn't mean good ideas are essentially simple. This seems utterly mistaken to say. You'll have to give us more to go on.

Back to the part where you might have been on to something: Perhaps deep thoughts alter world-perception. Is it the nature of a deep thought to do so, or is it, if deep thoughts are rare, that their introduction often does so? I suppose you could say: is it the depth or the newness that alters world-perception.

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:39 pm**

Jaded Sage wrote:I was randomly youtubing movie clips, and found this. Towards the end, in response to what the main character says, somebody says, "That's some deep shit." Is this an example of something "deep"?

http://youtu.be/i3O-kYwM8qY

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:53 pm**

Jaded Sage wrote:I was randomly youtubing movie clips, and found this. Towards the end, in response to what the main character says, somebody says, "That's some deep shit." Is this an example of something "deep"?

http://youtu.be/i3O-kYwM8qY

Nah! No one can take Keanu reaves seriously - he's such a fucking pseudo.
... And baseball is not deep or serious.

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:54 pm**

A_Seagull wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:
A_Seagull wrote:IMO A deep thought is one that has many implications and perhaps alters one's perception of the world.

In this definition, a deep thought would necessarily have to be simple, yet powerful.
Often, it is good to start by stating certainties. I am certain it does not necessarily follow from that definition that a deep thought must be simple.

.
Are not all good ideas, in their essence, simple?

Thankfully no one of any merit would believe that. That way lies disaster.

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:07 pm**

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:I was randomly youtubing movie clips, and found this. Towards the end, in response to what the main character says, somebody says, "That's some deep shit." Is this an example of something "deep"?

http://youtu.be/i3O-kYwM8qY
Nah!

Perhaps you'd like to give us an example of something deep. Personally, I'd like to hear at least one more person's opinion on this example.

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:09 pm**

Jaded Sage wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:I was randomly youtubing movie clips, and found this. Towards the end, in response to what the main character says, somebody says, "That's some deep shit." Is this an example of something "deep"?

http://youtu.be/i3O-kYwM8qY
Nah!
Perhaps you'd like to give us an example of something deep. Personally, I'd like to hear at least one more person's opinion on this example.

I did that already. Maybe you memory is not as deep as you think it is?

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:12 pm**

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:I was randomly youtubing movie clips, and found this. Towards the end, in response to what the main character says, somebody says, "That's some deep shit." Is this an example of something "deep"?

http://youtu.be/i3O-kYwM8qY
I [gave an example] already.

Perhaps you'd like to provide another. Examples are like money: it always helps to have more. Really great examples can be talked about for a long time.

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:35 pm**

duszek wrote:Does a deep thought have to be [serious]?

You should all know: "Does a deep thought have to be [serious]?" is exactly the type of question we want to ask here. It gets right to the heart of the matter 'via negativa' and delivers us from our preconceived notions. That's how we answer the question.

Zen Koan:
A master received a professor, who came to inquire about Zen. The master served tea. He poured the professor's cup full, but poured more. The professor watched the overflow until he shouted, "It is overfull! Some must go out!" "Like this cup," said the master, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. Empty!"

Questions like these help us "empty the zen cup." They identify what is and what is not a trait of what we examine.

In fact, this example is—and I'm just now remembering my professor once used this expression—'so subtle and deep', that it was difficult for me to answer, because I had to reconsider where the seriousness or unseriousness came from, that-which-studies, or that-which-is-studied, the student or the subject?

This trait and this consideration also have many implications; imply considering the possibility of some unexpected things: is this whole sort of thing serious or unserious (some ancient philosophers say it is both: the most important thing in the world, and the least important thing in the world), does the seriousness or unseriousness of this single thing vary between multiple people, is it possibly serious in some ways, and not others, at some times, and not others? Ought we be serious or playful about such a potentially complex matter as this? Is it true, as Heraclitus says, that: "Mankind is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play," and if so, isn't figuring out what the heck that means, and figuring out how the heck to do it, just the sort of thing a playful person gets serious about?

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:39 pm**

Jaded Sage wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:I was randomly youtubing movie clips, and found this. Towards the end, in response to what the main character says, somebody says, "That's some deep shit." Is this an example of something "deep"?

http://youtu.be/i3O-kYwM8qY
I [gave an example] already.
Perhaps you'd like to provide another. Examples are like money: it always helps to have more. Really great examples can be talked about for a long time.

Like I said above, you might like to try a little thinking for yourself.

Posted: **Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:45 pm**

Jaded Sage wrote:
A_Seagull wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote: Often, it is good to start by stating certainties. I am certain it does not necessarily follow from that definition that a deep thought must be simple.

.
Are not all good ideas, in their essence, simple?
No. Where did you get that idea? For example, it might take a complicated strategy to win something. Now, I favor simplicity as much as anyone else (I think simplicity is good), but that doesn't mean good ideas are essentially simple. This seems utterly mistaken to say. You'll have to give us more to go on.

I get 'that idea' from empirical observation. I do not consider that strategies belong in the set of 'ideas'.

Back to the part where you might have been on to something: Perhaps deep thoughts alter world-perception. Is it the nature of a deep thought to do so, or is it, if deep thoughts are rare, that their introduction often does so? I suppose you could say: is it the depth or the newness that alters world-perception.

Perception creates paradigms. World views are paradigms. Paradigms can shift with the introduction of a powerful idea.

Posted: **Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:17 am**

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:I was randomly youtubing movie clips, and found this. Towards the end, in response to what the main character says, somebody says, "That's some deep shit." Is this an example of something "deep"?

http://youtu.be/i3O-kYwM8qY
Perhaps you'd like to provide another. Examples are like money: it always helps to have more. Really great examples can be talked about for a long time.
You might like to try a little thinking for yourself.

You're not gonna believe me, but I have thought for myself, and that's why I am asking for another to come up with an example, and offered an example I stumbled upon.

If you are not going to work with me, but against me, you are not worth my time and effort.

Posted: **Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:37 am**

A_Seagull wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote: Back to the part where you might have been on to something: Perhaps deep thoughts alter world-perception. Is it the nature of a deep thought to do so, or is it, if deep thoughts are rare, that their introduction often does so? I suppose you could say: is it the depth or the newness that alters world-perception.
Perception creates paradigms. World views are paradigms. Paradigms can shift with the introduction of a powerful idea.

So newness. Just say 'newness' and work with me and I'll know I'm not wasting my time with you. I shouldn't have to explain this kind of thing. It's 101 level stuff.

So then deep thoughts must be rare, because it is not the nature of a deep thought to be worldview-altering, but it is the newness of a thought that is worldview-altering, and worldviews are not often altered, assuming, as you said, that it is deep thoughts that alter worldviews or world-perceptions. It looks as though deep thoughts do not alter worldviews, in which case, we are getting off topic. However, we can use this to learn what a deep thought is, because we have learned what it is not. We can, it seems, declare the idea that 'deep thoughts alter world-views' to be a false preconceived notion, unless, of course, there is something essential to deep thoughts that makes them new thoughts, and there is something essential to new thoughts that makes them worldview-altering thoughts.

Posted: **Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:23 am**

Jaded Sage wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote: Perhaps you'd like to provide another. Examples are like money: it always helps to have more. Really great examples can be talked about for a long time.
You might like to try a little thinking for yourself.
You're not gonna believe me, but I have thought for myself, and that's why I am asking for another to come up with an example, and offered an example I stumbled upon.

If you are not going to work with me, but against me, you are not worth my time and effort.

I don't "believe" anything. I cherish evidence and knowledge. The point of a FORUM is to share your thinking, and not simply leach off others.
My evidence tells me that you are simply mining for ideas, whilst not expressing any yourself. SO your thinking is not evident. It's up to you to remedy that situation.
I've already "worked with you" - its now your turn to respond to what has been said otherwise the discussion is all one sided.

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