Philosophy Now Forum

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Weirdo.

Stop looking in the mirror when you say that, prudeface.

PhilX

Ok. I didn't know that commenting on your thread qualified as 'obsession' lol.

Does awareness require intelligence? What are some manifestations of awareness? How many kinds of awareness are there? Is being aware of a rattlesnake on your doorstep the same as being aware that snakes are reptililes? What is the duration of awareness? Does it come and go? Is your reticular activating system aware? Are you aware of it? Does it make you aware? I will ask the robot

As I was saying, I will ask the robot for proof of its self awareness. The robot's name is Jack. I will ask Jack, "Jack, are you self-aware?" If Jack is AWARE that the inquiry is being directed at it, and is in a mood to respond, and answers, "Yes", I will demand proof. What proof will Jack offer? If Jack doesn't answer, maybe it's just ignoring me. What if Jack answers, "I don't understand the question"?, or, God forbid, "What is self-awareness?"

How do humans demonstrate self-awareness?

clueless wrote:How do humans demonstrate self-awareness?

In different ways. When someone calls your name, do you respond?

PhilX

clueless wrote:How do humans demonstrate self-awareness?

Shaving in the mirror.

Chimps recognise themselves in mirrors, other animals do not. There are ways to experiment with this.

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

clueless wrote:How do humans demonstrate self-awareness?

In different ways. When someone calls your name, do you respond?

PhilX

I first look to see who's calling it.

clueless wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

clueless wrote:How do humans demonstrate self-awareness?

In different ways. When someone calls your name, do you respond?

PhilX

I first look to see who's calling it.

That's a response.

PhilX

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

clueless wrote:How do humans demonstrate self-awareness?

Shaving in the mirror.

Chimps recognise themselves in mirrors, other animals do not. There are ways to experiment with this.

According to Skinner, pigeons also recognize themselves in mirrors. I know I'm better looking than that fellow in the mirror whose face I shave once in a great while.

Is there a single comprehensive definition of self-awareness that you are comfortable with?

How long does it take a chimp to recognize himself? It's amazing that he can do this having presumably never seen himself before. Some intelligence involved here?

I wonder what it's like to be a chimp seeing and recognizing himself for the first time.

My cats evidently don't recognize themselves. Is this proof of lack of sufficient intelligence?

A trick question for you: Why do mirrors reverse left and right but not top and bottom?

So, we can be sure that the robot is self-aware if IT recognizes itself in a mirror? I can hear IT now - "OMG! That's me!...reversed 180!"

Is it recognizing itself or recognizing an image, albeit reversed?

From clueless:

"I wonder what it's like to be a chimp seeing and recognizing himself for the first time?"

I wonder what it's like for a totally blind person to be able to see for the first time?

PhilX

PhilX[/quote]

I first look to see who's calling it.[/quote]

That's a response.

PhilX[/quote]

But, what is it a response to? How could anyone be certain that my looking demonstrated self awareness? Am I looking because my name has been called or because someone has spoken?

clueless wrote:PhilX

I first look to see who's calling it.[/quote]

That's a response.

PhilX[/quote]

But, what is it a response to? How could anyone be certain that my looking demonstrated self awareness? Am I looking because my name has been called or because someone has spoken?[/quote]

That's for you to decide.

PhilX

clueless wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

clueless wrote:How do humans demonstrate self-awareness?

Shaving in the mirror.

Chimps recognise themselves in mirrors, other animals do not. There are ways to experiment with this.

According to Skinner, pigeons also recognize themselves in mirrors. I know I'm better looking than that fellow in the mirror whose face I shave once in a great while.

Is there a single comprehensive definition of self-awareness that you are comfortable with?

How long does it take a chimp to recognize himself? It's amazing that he can do this having presumably never seen himself before. Some intelligence involved here?

I wonder what it's like to be a chimp seeing and recognizing himself for the first time.

My cats evidently don't recognize themselves. Is this proof of lack of sufficient intelligence?

A trick question for you: Why do mirrors reverse left and right but not top and bottom?

So, we can be sure that the robot is self-aware if IT recognizes itself in a mirror? I can hear IT now - "OMG! That's me!...reversed 180!"

Is it recognizing itself or recognizing an image, albeit reversed?

A pigeon sees a pigeon. I think it would be tricky to verify that the pigeon is recognising itself?? How is the claim made that they are self aware?

Mirrors do not reverse either top/bottom, or left/right. if they did you would see you right on the left, you don't. You see your right on the right and the top on the top. That's what a reflection is.

A robot can be programmed to say "oh that's me", but will never be self aware. Robots rely wholly on a human programmer.

As for cats-- they are pure evil. They do not count.

You would have to consult Skinner regarding how he supports his claim of self-awareness in pigeons.

There are evidently many aspects of self-awareness, one of which is an awareness of how one looks (appearance). I assume this is the aspect of self-awareness that is alluded to in the chimpanzee example. Can one gain awareness of one's own existence as an individual by looking in a mirror? I see; therefore, I am? What is it that the chimp realizes by looking in the mirror that the pigeon doesn't? Both would receive a false impression.

Mirrors are tricky.

clueless wrote:You would have to consult Skinner regarding how he supports his claim of self-awareness in pigeons.

There are evidently many aspects of self-awareness, one of which is an awareness of how one looks (appearance). I assume this is the aspect of self-awareness that is alluded to in the chimpanzee example. Can one gain awareness of one's own existence as an individual by looking in a mirror? I see; therefore, I am? What is it that the chimp realizes by looking in the mirror that the pigeon doesn't? Both would receive a false impression.

Mirrors are tricky.

I think you might have to do more than look in a mirror.

In the case of a chimp or an elephant, and object, such as an ink blot is placed on a part of the face that the animal is not aware of. On looking in the mirror, the animal sees the object and responds by understanding that the object is on them ( - not on that OTHER chimp that keeps looking at me, and mimicking everything I do).