Philosophy Now Forum

Ned wrote:Doesn't my logic apply to ANY creator?
No, and that's the problem with most people. They tend to anthropomorphize their version of a creator.

For instance: the ten commandments: "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God." Yet two of the seven deadly sins are: Envy and Pride, which shows contradiction. Jealousy, envy and pride come for the same place, are of the same thing, i.e., selfishness. All of which are definitely human frailties. Look around at the universe, it's utter immenseness, examine it's complexities, it's time, it's physics. By comparison, contrast, look at our relative minuteness, in size and in time. All the Universe for this human? So now look at mans selfishness, building up to his nuclear bomb. Let's allow mans, Jealousy, envy and pride (selfishness) to destroy the entire planet, all life, maybe even with global warming. Wait, all that utter immenseness of universal time and energy, for it's crowning achievement, life on planet earth, and in a relatively very short time it's all destroyed. That's the creator? Well it's like humans right? If it was so selfish why create life at all, or the universe for that matter, then it'd have all of whatever, all to itself, it wouldn't have to share it with anything, a selfish creator to create all this in all this time, yet allow it's creation to say no, we'll destroy it. Wouldn't that be allowing it's creation to have the god of selfishness before it? Themselves as creators or rather destroyers? Same thing? To destroy mankind, the creation of meaningless rubble, assuming we are somehow meaningful. Is it selfish or unselfish for a creator to create? Is it selfish or unselfish to allow it's creation to destroy all it created, after so much time?

Trust me no creator of all this is selfish, jealous, envious, or full of pride, that's humans and humans alone, Humans that are still on the cusp of fear, still caught up in only knowing they want to survive, being selfish, jealous, envious and full of pride, not far from their caveman ancestors, that were much worse. They'd eat the meat from your bones while you watched. But what of the man of the future, let us continue the elevation of reason, let us propel mankind up until now, his past evolutionary chain, to be finally devoid of all that selfishness, no more fear as he finally realizes balance, equilibrium. No jealousy, envy or pride. What of this image and the creator. Have we not changed, though ever so slight, have we not abolished slavery, well sort of, actually it still exists though the chains are no longer made of iron or gold, they are now simply made of paper with pretty artwork on it. Can mankind ever transcend his selfishness? Will the chains turn from paper to air? If we can imagine that it can happen, shall we be or were we ever like the creator? Can't have it both ways, or has the creator grown as well? Not omnipotent? Have you seen it come and say anything at all? I would imagine that it would address all of us at once, I mean we all equally need desperately to hear it speak of it's design, we've been left to imagine what it is by ourselves for such a very long time, and look what we've come up with, better but only slightly. Who do you want to kill, bomb, strafe, napalm, or otherwise, because of either strategic location, resources or power, did I say because of fear? Yes, FEAR! The crux of it all!!! Got to have as much as you can to ensure you live as long as you can.

No, the creator is not like us at all, look at all it created, the universe. Can you or I create a universe? Or can we only kill off life-form diversity, deforest the land, heat up and destroy the planet? Or at least that's the way the creator created it, the way it thought it should be, or surly that's what it did. Why then do we change it's formula, Greed of power, resources, etc? The planet shows us its equilibrium, it 'spheres of balance,' in it's cycles, it's ecosystem, yet we turn a deaf ear, in favor of fear. Not cooperation! Not very much like a creator of universe's.

Those that anthropomorphize their creator, do it in the name of that fear, and are quite insane, out of their mind, because to do otherwise would be to actually have to work the spheres of balance, the ecosystem, the planets rhythms, like they want everyone else to do for their position. And they can't have that, as they sell everyone their insanity!

No the creator has no wants or desires, it's far above human frailties. Your vision of your god, you see when you look at yourself, yet you surely are no creator of a universe. You fear, the creator has no fear.

I, as a parent, could decide if I wanted to create children.
OK!

So could 'god'

I, as a parent could prepare their environment (neighborhood, schools, activities)

So could 'god'

I, as a parent, could guide them during the growing up process

So could 'god'

I, as a parent, could stop them from hurting themselves

So could 'god'

So why do I, as a parent, feel ultimately responsible for how my children turned out?

Why doesn't 'god'?

(and my powers, as a parent, are tiny compared to his almighty, omnipotent and omniscient 'self')

Ned wrote:Soap on a rope

Earth is like a soap on a rope
twirled around by the sun,
year after year,
in an endless run.

I wonder if the sun is aware
how sick, how beyond hope
how badly infested by us
this poor globe is at the end of the rope.

If I were the sun
I would not want to know…
…I would open my hand;
let the poor bastards go.

attofishpi wrote:Really? Is life that bad Ned?

Ned wrote:If I were the sun
I would not want to know…
…I would open my hand;
let the poor bastards go.

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Ned wrote:Doesn't my logic apply to ANY creator?

No, and that's the problem with most people. They tend to anthropomorphize their version of a creator.

attofishpi wrote:You poor bastard (hypocrite)

Ned wrote:

attofishpi wrote:You poor bastard (hypocrite)

Another name-caller.

Into my ignore list you go. You will have lots of friends there.

thedoc wrote:

Ned wrote:Take it easy doc!

I await your reasonable, rational and logical thoughts in response.

I hold this thought till they arrive.

PS. The problem isn't that you did not answer me, doc -- the problem is that you DID answer me, with evasion after evasion after evasion.

They might have been evasions in your eyes, but I thought of them as addressing several different points that I found interesting.

Ned wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Ned wrote:Doesn't my logic apply to ANY creator?

No, and that's the problem with most people. They tend to anthropomorphize their version of a creator.

Spheres, I have to confess I didn't read your long post...
You say that, and yet:

my point is of an "...old curmudgeon."
So you claim to be clairvoyant, well that's funny, because there is no such thing. So selfish like all the rest you are, as you don't read mine but expect me to read yours. Just as fucked up like the rest you are. So I just found my first shit Canadian.

Of course, I made up this story, just to make a point: how easy it is to create stories about our imaginary friends?
Well it seems you're a fool for thinking any belief in a god is anything more than an imaginary friend.

Ned wrote:SOB, just in case you don't know: you are now in my ignore list, so don't bother talking to me because I won't see anything you write (including the last post just above this one). Just a friendly warning.

attofishpi wrote:You are the one that called ALL inhabitants of planet Earth bastards...HYPOCRITE. in addition IDIOT. - please do ignore ive no time for such twods.

Ned wrote:SOB, just in case you don't know: you are now in my ignore list, so don't bother talking to me because I won't see anything you write (including the last post just above this one). Just a friendly warning.