Philosophy Now Forum

thedoc wrote:Those people already have responsible grown ups to help them, and don't need "busybody" types sticking their noses in where they don't belong. ...

Not all and in some cases those responsible for them are the ones abusing them.

If you know some of those people who don't have someone to help them, why aren't you helping them if they need it, ...

What do you mean by 'know'? As I know of those who have been abused by their carers and it was your busybodies who stopped it. Now according to you we should leave well alone?

or are you all talk and no action. FYI, some friends of mine were down on their luck, so they are now staying in our house till they get their lives back in order.

Big whoop. I'm talking about those being abused by others who are the ones supposedly responsible for them.

Arising_uk wrote:

thedoc wrote:Those people already have responsible grown ups to help them, and don't need "busybody" types sticking their noses in where they don't belong. ...

Not all and in some cases those responsible for them are the ones abusing them.

If you know some of those people who don't have someone to help them, why aren't you helping them if they need it, ...

What do you mean by 'know'? As I know of those who have been abused by their carers and it was your busybodies who stopped it. Now according to you we should leave well alone?

or are you all talk and no action. FYI, some friends of mine were down on their luck, so they are now staying in our house till they get their lives back in order.

Big whoop. I'm talking about those being abused by others who are the ones supposedly responsible for them.

Then we are talking about 2 different problems, you're talking about caregivers who are abusing those in their care, and I am talking about those who are getting proper care, but the bureaucrats and do-gooders are sticking their noses in and interfering with that proper care. Both are legitimate problems that need to be addressed.

“But then all those "do gooders" would be left with nothing to do. - Oh wait, we could find out if they could dig their way out of a grave with broken fingers.”

HA!

##

“…in a situation they cannot solve or are too scared or unable to ask for help?”

Bastardry: frankly, I got my own fish to fry. I’m a finite resource currently allocated, in full, to one person…got nuthin’ left to give any one else. And: knowing humans beings are mostly stupid, lazy, shits, I view any cry for help with great suspicion. In my experience: most folks give up way too early, way too easily. My coat tails are ragged now: not inclined to let any one ride on ‘em.

Arising_uk wrote:

thedoc wrote: or are you all talk and no action. FYI, some friends of mine were down on their luck, so they are now staying in our house till they get their lives back in order.

Big whoop. I'm talking about those being abused by others who are the ones supposedly responsible for them.

Obviously since you aren't doing it, this act is of no importance. If you were doing it, you'd be parading it around to show everyone what a wonderful person you are. A rather narrow minded version of the NIH syndrome.

thedoc wrote:Obviously since you aren't doing it, this act is of no importance. ...

Or I've currently not heard of anyone in trouble that I can actually help but in the past I have done what I can to help those who have been abused.

If you were doing it, you'd be parading it around to show everyone what a wonderful person you are.

I'm not you.

A rather narrow minded version of the NIH syndrome.

Did I say I was a 'do-gooder'? No, I just pointed-out the narrow-mindedness of your opinion.

Arising_uk wrote: Did I say I was a 'do-gooder'? No, I just pointed-out the narrow-mindedness of your opinion.

What is so narrow minded about acknowledging that there are several aspects of the problem?
Your focus on one aspect is more narrow minded than my acknowledgement that there are many aspects of the problem.

Arising_uk wrote:

thedoc wrote:Obviously since you aren't doing it, this act is of no importance. ...

Or I've currently not heard of anyone in trouble that I can actually help but in the past I have done what I can to help those who have been abused.

Are you saying that you will only help those who are being abused, by your definition? That is a rather narrow view of the situation.

thedoc wrote:Then we are talking about 2 different problems, you're talking about caregivers who are abusing those in their care, and I am talking about those who are getting proper care, but the bureaucrats and do-gooders are sticking their noses in and interfering with that proper care. Both are legitimate problems that need to be addressed.

Fair point. Can you give an example of such do-gooders so I can better understand what you mean?

thedoc wrote:Are you saying that you will only help those who are being abused, by your definition? That is a rather narrow view of the situation.

Are you saying we should just have a general approach? I'd have thought this exactly what you complain about with these 'do-gooders'. Although I'm slightly surprised an avowed christian takes this attitude to those who attempt to do good?

Arising_uk wrote:

thedoc wrote:Are you saying that you will only help those who are being abused, by your definition? That is a rather narrow view of the situation.

Are you saying we should just have a general approach? I'd have thought this exactly what you complain about with these 'do-gooders'. Although I'm slightly surprised an avowed christian takes this attitude to those who attempt to do good?

There is a big difference between "Helping" someone in a showy way for everyone to see, especially if it's not what the people really need, and giving them what they really need, regardless of who knows that you are doing it. I favor the latter but it requires the people actually letting you know what they need rather than what they think they want. .

Albert Einstein said, “We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them.” I do not think he was wrong. All the steps listed in the first post reflect same level of thinking that created the problems in the first place. Relying on them to the exclusion of other ways of knowing can only lead to our extinction. Pierre Teilhard De Chardin was right: we must evolve.