Philosophy Now Forum

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I think I hear you and you're saying this -




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As usual you hear nothing but since you've raised the subject again why did you not have children Bill?

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Luck. Chance. I'd pull out...




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Arising_uk wrote:

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.So, in a word, your motivation was selfish.

Er? No Bill, not sure what world you live in but making another happy is not generally considered a selfish act in mine. I can understand it is in yours as yours is all about you isn't it.

That's not bad. Selfishness is what motivates us to do 99% of ALL our actions.

No Bill, self-interest is a great motivator but selfishness can be counter-productive to this and interestingly enough what one decides is in ones self-interest may not necessarily be what one would like.

Well done.

I am glad you reproduced.

Save your false platitudes, I didn't do it for you

You didn't do it for the child either. It is a selfish action of the parents' desires and beliefs. There is not one ethical, rational, selfless reason to bring a child into the world, that purely benefits the child. In your case, it benefited your wife, thus benefitting you (happy wife, happy you). The child, not existing, would have been just fine in non-existence.

I'm not berating you for your choice. But let's stop kidding ourselves about the selflessness of procreation. It's always about a child's utility, whether for the happiness of the parents, or the future of society when it grows up.

Arising uk wrote:
Roll on the time when only mag subscribers can post here

Bill should subscribe to it since then he can carry on posting

Dalek Prime wrote:... You didn't do it for the child either. ...

Where did I say I did? But by-and-large I think existing probably better than not.

It is a selfish action of the parents' desires and beliefs. ...

What's selfish about it?

There is not one ethical, rational, selfless reason to bring a child into the world, that purely benefits the child. ...

Apart from being alive as opposed to never existing that is.

In your case, it benefited your wife, thus benefitting you (happy wife, happy you). ...

Actually I think about it slightly differently, no-children, very unhappy childless women, unhappy me. But since what you say is what I said I take your point and find very little wrong with my position.

The child, not existing, would have been just fine in non-existence.

No it wouldn't as there would have been no child being fine in non-existence.

I'm not berating you for your choice. But let's stop kidding ourselves about the selflessness of procreation. It's always about a child's utility, whether for the happiness of the parents, or the future of society when it grows up.

Who said it was a selfless act? Personally I think it a natural one and one that is pretty much the raison d'être of life, that it removed an unsuspected existential nag was a surprise to me but most welcome.

Bill Wiltrack wrote:. Luck. Chance. I'd pull out... .

Of what, the commitment?

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............................Yeah, I'd pull out of the commitment...




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So you didn't have kids due to biological problems and you actually chose not to have them, did your wife agree with this policy?

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Not a biological problem but more like a conscious choice. My wife is fine with whatever comes our way.






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Bill Wiltrack wrote:.Not a biological problem but more like a conscious choice. My wife is fine with whatever comes our way.

Really? Wow! Your wife is a saint if she's agreed not to have children because you want to be the only one in her life.

Still, I can now understand why you feel empty as you've missed one of the reasons for life.

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Yeah, I know having a family is one of, if not, THE most important reasons to live.

But that is sort-of the focus of this thread. To question the kicking of the can down the road. Why?


Why do it?

Because your dick found a vagina?


...I don't know...I think the time for humans is on the wane.



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Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
Yeah, I know having a family is one of, if not, THE most important reasons to live.

Not quite, as, for this male, having a child caused an unexpected release of an unsuspected existential angst about being alive, i.e. upon seeing my child I realised that dying was not so much an issue as a, if not the, point of living had just occurred. Now of course there was also the added impetus to live at least until one see's the child at the state where they can go off and live their own life.

But that is sort-of the focus of this thread. To question the kicking of the can down the road. Why?

Kicking what can down the road?

Why do it?

Because your dick found a vagina?

Well one could be a Dawkinite about such things and say its because the gene is the unit of evolutionary selection and one is a composite of genes all clamouring to be reproduced. This would also explain why you feel so empty as your genes now 'realise' that they are spinning their processes for no good reason.

...I don't know...I think the time for humans is on the wane..

So what? Apparently approximately 99% of all species that have existed are now extinct, why should we be any different.

Bill Wiltrack wrote:I think the time for humans is on the wane.[/size].

Arising_uk wrote:So what? Apparently approximately 99% of all species that have existed are now extinct, why should we be any different.

Yeah 'so what'? Who cares if you don't exist and have no knowledge of anything? Why waste your time being depressed?

I had kids cause my biological clock was tick Tick TICKING! That and society made me feel like it was going to be fun...all the adorable baby outfits, the sweet love and kisses, seeing the result of what you would produce...what would they look like...who would they be... It's a very exciting time.

But then, when they are grown, you realize that you will be responsible for them til the day you die no matter what. Because you love them more than yourself. I wish someone would have told me that if they go down, I go down...that my happiness is dependent on theirs. That is the only thing I can say I hate about loving this much. It's a nightmare for someone who is an independent introvert type person. Sometimes I just want to be left alone...damn me for being so loving!