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Re: Gun Control
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:58 pm
by Immanuel Can
Alexiev wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:18 am
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:12 am
Alexiev wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:01 pm
The research and common sense support me, not you.
They don't, actually. Empirical facts show what I'm saying is true. Go and look. Bicycle boys are a bunch of nancies in overly-tight pants; you'll find the real mean moving heavy equipment around, doing dangerous jobs, driving motorized vehicles, building things, and using firearms.
"Elinor agree with it all, because she did not think he deserved the compliment of rational opposition." Jane Austen. Sense and Sensibility. (from memory)
Hey, there are many ways to be brave, to be strong, to take risks, to be a man. None of them involve being too scared to pick up something. Men who are afraid of guns are afraid of the wrong thing -- what they
need to be afraid of is men...and most particularly, of themselves...for they are not up to the challenge of facing danger, and will certainly fail when the life-or-death moment comes.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:47 pm
by Alexiev
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:58 pm
Alexiev wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:18 am
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:12 am
They don't, actually. Empirical facts show what I'm saying is true. Go and look. Bicycle boys are a bunch of nancies in overly-tight pants; you'll find the real mean moving heavy equipment around, doing dangerous jobs, driving motorized vehicles, building things, and using firearms.
"Elinor agree with it all, because she did not think he deserved the compliment of rational opposition." Jane Austen. Sense and Sensibility. (from memory)
Hey, there are many ways to be brave, to be strong, to take risks, to be a man. None of them involve being too scared to pick up something. Men who are afraid of guns are afraid of the wrong thing -- what they
need to be afraid of is men...and most particularly, of themselves...for they are not up to the challenge of facing danger, and will certainly fail when the life-or-death moment comes.
Shooting an unarmed person is cowardly. Winning an argument with you is like shooting an unarmed man. Victory is easy, but there's not much glory in it.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:13 pm
by Alexiev
LuckyR wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:49 am
Alexiev wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:36 pm
Half truths are as misleading as lies. A huge number of guns in the US are in the groups of hunting, target and offensively killing guns, as opposed to defensive, personal protection guns. Though while your analysis of that particular subset has some merit, I am not aware of a legally binding way to distinguish between the groups. Thus the "ban" idea is impractical since a 100% ban has little to no legislative or even popular support.
Home invasions are a thing, but to the average citizen, they are a vanishingly statistically unlikely thing. Whereas making suicide more deathly is the main risk of gun ownership, though accidental deaths are especially tragic, though nowhere near as numerous. If you live where home invasion might happen, your best bet is moving, not gun buying. If you are living your life where there is a statistical chance of someone trying to kill YOU (specifically), go ahead buy a gun, but you already made your error by living your life that way.
I definitely wouldn't badmouth cameras and alarms, they don't kill folks and have probably thwarted way more crime than all of the guns in existence (since that's what they're designed to do), unlike guns, which generally address crimes (in the unlikely event that they fulfill that function) after they have been committed.
I don't know or propose any solutions. My only claim was that keeping a personal protection gun in one's house or car is irrational and cowardly.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:05 pm
by Immanuel Can
Alexiev wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:47 pm
Shooting an unarmed person is cowardly.
A crack addict breaks into your home, along with his gang members, to loot your house and assault your wife and children. You subdue them all with your bicycle.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:15 pm
by commonsense
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:05 pm
Alexiev wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:47 pm
Shooting an unarmed person is cowardly.
A crack addict breaks into your home, along with his gang members, to loot your house and assault your wife and children. You subdue them all with your bicycle.
Your scenario is irrelevant to anyone smart enough to employ adequate security.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:22 pm
by Alexiev
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:05 pm
Alexiev wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:47 pm
Shooting an unarmed person is cowardly.
A crack addict breaks into your home, along with his gang members, to loot your house and assault your wife and children. You subdue them all with your bicycle.
This may surprise and amaze you, but that has never happened and is exceedingly unlikely ever to happen. Anyone who is so fearful that it might happen that he buys a gun and keeps it loaded and available is (you guessed it) a coward.
Since many accidents happen in the bathroom, perhaps you should wear your motorcycle helmet every time you take a shower. That would protect you as well as a gun would, and it wouldn't endanger other people.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:38 pm
by Immanuel Can
commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:15 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:05 pm
Alexiev wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:47 pm
Shooting an unarmed person is cowardly.
A crack addict breaks into your home, along with his gang members, to loot your house and assault your wife and children. You subdue them all with your bicycle.
Your scenario is irrelevant to anyone smart enough to employ adequate security.
What? A bicycle lock?
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:45 pm
by Immanuel Can
Alexiev wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:22 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:05 pm
Alexiev wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:47 pm
Shooting an unarmed person is cowardly.
A crack addict breaks into your home, along with his gang members, to loot your house and assault your wife and children. You subdue them all with your bicycle.
This may surprise and amaze you, but that has never happened...
Actually, it has; and not infrequently. Surprise!
My wife's family were victims of just such a home invasion. They didn't have a gun. The guy who broke in did. Fortunately for them, it misfired, or her father would have died that day. And that's just one of many such examples. Home invasions are a veritable plague in the US.
In fact, St. George Floyd was involved in exactly that kind of break-in, just before he OD'd on fentanyl, in police custody. But nobody wants to talk about that, do they?
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:22 am
by LuckyR
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:05 pm
Alexiev wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:47 pm
Shooting an unarmed person is cowardly.
A crack addict breaks into your home, along with his gang members, to loot your house and assault your wife and children. You subdue them all with your bicycle.
Where I live, a zombie apocalypse is essentially of equal probability.
Not to say I wouldn't use my gun to not kill either of them, but my point is I'm way, way, way safer from my neighborhood than my guns.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:11 am
by Immanuel Can
LuckyR wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:22 am
Where I live, a zombie apocalypse is essentially of equal probability.
Montana?
Hey, these days, anywhere they've got a school or a mall is a danger zone.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:32 am
by commonsense
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:38 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:15 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:05 pm
A crack addict breaks into your home, along with his gang members, to loot your house and assault your wife and children. You subdue them all with your bicycle.
Your scenario is irrelevant to anyone smart enough to employ adequate security.
What? A bicycle lock?
Only an idiot would think a bicycle lock has something to do with home security when there are cameras and monitored alarms with links to 911 services available.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 3:58 am
by Immanuel Can
commonsense wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:32 am
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:38 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:15 pm
Your scenario is irrelevant to anyone smart enough to employ adequate security.
What? A bicycle lock?
Only an idiot would think a bicycle lock has something to do with home security when there are cameras and monitored alarms with links to 911 services available.
Where do you live, that 911 is tied to your home alarm? Usually, it's tied to a "call center."
But if you get a break-in, you're likely the perps have been there and gone long before 911 gets you anything anyway. They don't tend to hang around.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:35 am
by LuckyR
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:11 am
LuckyR wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:22 am
Where I live, a zombie apocalypse is essentially of equal probability.
Montana?
Hey, these days, anywhere they've got a school or a mall is a danger zone.
You said "your home", so I'm talking neighborhoods, not states.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:53 am
by Alexiev
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:45 pm
Actually, it has; and not infrequently. Surprise!
My wife's family were victims of just such a home invasion. They didn't have a gun. The guy who broke in did. Fortunately for them, it misfired, or her father would have died that day. And that's just one of many such examples. Home invasions are a veritable plague in the US.
In fact, St. George Floyd was involved in exactly that kind of break-in, just before he OD'd on fentanyl, in police custody. But nobody wants to talk about that, do they?
Yes, I know. I've had people try to shoot me nine or ten times, but the gun misfired every time. I guess I was born lucky. Maybe you can introduce me to your wife's family and we can compare notes.
Re: Gun Control
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:54 pm
by commonsense
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 3:58 am
commonsense wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:32 am
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:38 pm
What? A bicycle lock?
Only an idiot would think a bicycle lock has something to do with home security when there are cameras and monitored alarms with links to 911 services available.
Where do you live, that 911 is tied to your home alarm? Usually, it's tied to a "call center."
But if you get a break-in, you're likely the perps have been there and gone long before 911 gets you anything anyway. They don't tend to hang around.
You’re right. They wouldn’t be long unless they’re taking turns with my wife. And I suppose the call centers are not linked to emergency services via a direct line.