Philosophy Now Forum

Hobbes' Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:37 pm
QED

One has to be to know - but one doesn't have to know to be.

Sorry if this is too complicated to understand, I'm just a simple mind.

Dontaskme wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:
I am an an atheist and do not do belief of any kind

Do you believe you are an atheist then

I do not as I know I am an atheist. Believing and knowing are not the same. One can believe something and
be wrong. But one cannot know something and be wrong. Belief is not predicated upon anything other than
subjective interpretation whereas knowledge is predicated upon evidence or proof which are more rigorous
means for determining truth claims. Like I said I have no time for belief for it is epistemologically worthless

ken wrote:
There is no such thing as a rational belief. If you believe some thing is true that may not actual be true then that is very irrational. If however you believe some thing is true that you know with certainty is actually true then just provide the evidence for it so that every one else will also know this truth. However if some thing is true then that is just a fact so there is no need for belief at all

All this is absolutely true and is exactly what I have been saying said in my post immediately above

Rational belief is an oxymoron since belief cannot be rational as it is predicated upon emotion not logic
Also rationality cannot be emotional as it is predicated upon reason which pertains to logic not emotion

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:03 pm I'm just a simple mind.

QED II : The RETURN.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:33 pm Rational belief is an oxymoron since belief cannot be rational as it is predicated upon emotion not logic
Also rationality cannot be emotional as it is predicated upon reason which pertains to logic not emotion

True except that people use believe and knowledge interchangeably.
I do not.

Hobbes' Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:43 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:03 pm I'm just a simple mind.

QED II : The RETURN.

The eternal return.

If existence exists now, it must always have existed.

.

Dontaskme wrote:
If existence exists now it must always have existed

Existence has always existed because whatever is is existence. Existence is the eternal NOW which is all that can ever exist because
the past has already happened and the future has yet to happen. Existence is just another word for Universe. Which is ALL THERE IS

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:13 pm

Dontaskme wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:
I am an an atheist and do not do belief of any kind

Do you believe you are an atheist then

I do not as I know I am an atheist. Believing and knowing are not the same. One can believe something and
be wrong. But one cannot know something and be wrong. Belief is not predicated upon anything other than
subjective interpretation whereas knowledge is predicated upon evidence or proof which are more rigorous
means for determining truth claims. Like I said I have no time for belief for it is epistemologically worthless

You know that you exist, you exist as presence without doubt, but you do not know what presence is only that it is. You did not make presence be, and yet you are it. So you cannot be something else overlaid upon that except as an illusory idea arising and falling in presence only. You cannot know what you are not aka a concept...what you are is not a concept, and that which is not a concept is the only knower of all concepts that cannot know anything.......knowing is not known by a someone aka a concept aka what you are not.. but by knowing presence aka awareness what you are.

Presence aka nothing and everything is not an atheist, it is not a believer. It is not any thing at all. Presence is not-a-thing. It is the emptiness in which every known thing arises and dissolves and arises again.Known things don't know anything, they are already known.

.

Dontaskme wrote:
Known things dont know anything they are already known

Known things may already be known but they may not know that themselves so
knowledge in the form of self awareness is truth to them even if it is an illusion

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:48 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:43 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:03 pm I'm just a simple mind.

QED II : The RETURN.

The eternal return.

If existence exists now, it must always have existed.

.

Most probably. But that is beyond the realms of evidence.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:36 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Known things dont know anything they are already known

Known things may already be known but they may not know that themselves so
knowledge in the form of self awareness is truth to them even if it is an illusion

Yes, I agree with this.

Understanding of the no-self concept comes when life evolves that understanding in you and not before.

Hobbes' Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:42 pm evidence.

Evidence is self-evident.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:46 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:42 pm evidence.

Evidence is self-evident.

Nope.

Dontaskme wrote:
Presence aka nothing and everything is not an atheist it is not a believer. It is not any thing at all. Presence is not a thing. It is the
emptiness in which every known thing arises and dissolves and arises again. Known things dont know anything they are already known

Presence is indeed not a thing but a state of mind or state of existence. The labels human beings use are artificial so not part of that state
Language is however necessary in order for human beings to communicate with each other through exchanging knowledge and information