Quote of the day
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Bottom line: There’s no way a man can truly understand what it is like to be a woman in show business until he becomes a woman in show business. Then it’s only a matter of extrapolating from show business into every other facet of human interaction where there are roles for men and roles for women.
I’ve heard some folks liken this to Disclosure: How dare them aim charges of sexual harassment in the workplace at women! But a man pretending to be a woman on the job makes this one all the more ambiguous. And it’s not like the actual women here aren’t treated like shit. Ron just doesn’t know that Dorothy isn’t a woman. But basically you have this man pretending to be a woman showing all the actual women how to stop taking shit from macho assholes like Ron. Like there is no way that women could think stuff up like this themselves. Or fight back against it.
At the same time, it seems to buy into all that plastic fashion bullshit about women being obsessed with what they wear and with what they look like. And Julie of course is smashing.
On the other hand, she is also pretty damn cynical.
But the subtext – that the motion picture industry [and television] is just in the business of pure “entertainment” – is ambiguous too. After all, one could argue that this is all Tootsie is.
Why oh why can’t “reality” just be one thing or the other. Oh well. There on the wall at Michael’s birthday party is a poster of Samuel Beckett. But, instead of godot, we get Ron and Les and John van Horn.
Look for Bill Murray to steal the show. Oh, and Teri Garr.
Dustin Hoffman allegedly tried out his role as Dorothy by passing himself off as his daughter’s Aunt Dorothy at her parent’s evening at school. His performance was so strong he actually convinced the teachers present. They never suspected.
Bill Murray agreed to omit his name from the opening credits to prevent audiences expecting a “Bill Murray” movie along the lines of Meatballs (1979) or Caddyshack (1980).
Well known transvestite actor Holly Woodlawn was hired by the producers of Tootsie to coach actor Dustin Hoffman in his role as ‘Michael Dorsey/Dorothy Michaels’ in the intricate art of being a man acting as a woman in films as he prepared for this role.
The actors were told not to approach their characters as comedic characters, but as dramatic characters in a funny situation. In Sydney, Australia, director Sydney Pollack commented “No one ever laughed during the shooting of any scenes of the film. It’s only funny because of its story structure.” IMDb
Tootsie
[Casting: The reading was fine. You’re the wrong height.
Michael: I can be taller.
Casting: No. We’re looking for somebody shorter.
Michael: Look. I don’t have to be this tall. See, I’m wearing lifts. I can be shorter.
Casting: I know, but really we’re looking for somebody different.
Michael: I can be different.
Casting: We’re looking for somebody else.
How about a beefsteak tomato?
Jeff: I don’t want a full house at the Winter Garden Theatre. I want people who just came out of the worst rainstorm in history. These are people who are alive on the planet…until they dry off. I wish I had a theatre that was only open when it rained.
Anyone here post only in the rain? How about only in a severe thunderstorm?
Jeff: I don’t like it when people come up to me after my plays and say, “I really dug your message, man.” Or, “I really dug your play, man, I cried.” You know. I like it when people come up to me the next day, or a week later, and they say, “I saw your play. What happened?”
Or the equivalent of that here? You know, up in the pedantic clouds.
Jeff: I did a thing about suicides of the American lndian. And nobody cared. Nobody showed. And I think the American Indian is as American as John and Ethel Barrymore…and Donny and Marie Osmond. I think it’s really sad…but I think that, nowadays, when people dream they don’t even dream in their own country anymore. And that’s sick.
Anyone here dream in a different country? how about a different planet?
Michael: I don’t know what you’re playing.
Sandy: I’m playing rage. I’m enraged. You told me to turn the tables. I’m playing rage.
Michael: This is rage?
Sandy: I know. I have a problem with anger.
Michael: You do. But there are a 100 other actresses reading who don’t, who aren’t afraid of working. Who aren’t afraid to stick everything on the line and do it!
Sandy: Don’t get mad!
Michael: Stop being a doormat!
Sandy: I’m not a doormat!
Michael: Act right now! Do it!
Of course, she's still just not right for the part.
Sandy: How can I get the rage back tomorrow? How can a total stranger enrage me?
Michael: Okay, I’ll pick you up at 10 tomorrow and enrage you.
Nope, it still doesn't work. The scripted parts let's call them.
George: OK, I know this is going to disgust you, Michael, but a lot of people are in this business to make money.
Michael: You make it out like I’m some flake, George. I am in this business to make money, too.
George: Really?
Michael: Yes!
George: The Harlem Theatre for the Blind? Strindberg in the Park? The People’s Workshop in Syracuse?
Michael: OK, now wait a minute. I did nine plays in eight months up in Syracuse. I happened to get great reviews from the New York critics, not that that’s why I did it.
George: Oh, of course not. God forbid you should lose your standing as a cult failure.
Which he then apologizes for saying. All the way up to the Russian Tea Room.
George: Where do you come off sending me your roommate’s play for you to star in? I’m your agent, not your mother! I’m not supposed to find plays for you to star in - I’m supposed to field offers! And that’s what I do!
Michael: ‘Field offers?’ Who told you that, the Agent Fairy? That was a significant piece of work - I could’ve been terrific in that part.
George: Michael, nobody’s gonna do that play.
Michael: Why?
George: Because it’s a downer, that’s why. Because nobody wants to produce a play about a couple that moved back to Love Canal.
Michael: But that actually happened!
George: WHO GIVES A SHIT?! Nobody wants to pay twenty dollars to watch people living next to chemical waste! They can see that in New Jersey!
Hollywood let's call it.
Michael: Are you saying that nobody in New York will work with me?
George: No, no, that’s too limited… Nobody in Hollywood wants to work with you either. I can’t even set you up for a commercial. You played a tomato for 30 seconds - they went a half a day over schedule because you wouldn’t sit down.
Michael: Of course. It was illogical.
George: YOU WERE A TOMATO. A tomato doesn’t have logic! A tomato can’t move!
Michael Dorsey: That’s what I said. So if he can’t move, how’s he gonna sit down, George? I was a stand-up tomato: a juicy, sexy, beefsteak tomato. Nobody does vegetables like me. I did an evening of vegetables off-Broadway. I did the best tomato, the best cucumber…I did an endive salad that knocked the critics on their ass.
See, I told you.
Dorothy: I think I know what you want. You want a caricature of a woman. To prove some point like power makes a woman masculine…or masculine women are ugly. Well, shame on any woman that lets you do that. And that means you, Miss Marshall. Shame on you, you macho shithead.
Rita: Jesus!
Ron: What is idiotic about power making a woman masculine? Not that that was my point.
Let's run this by, well, you know.
Rita: Miss Michaels, just a minute. Was that for real or were you auditioning?
Dorothy: Which answer will get me a reading, Miss Marshall?
The perfect answer?
Michael [dressed as Dorothy]: George. George. George. It’s Michael Dorsey, okay? Your favourite client. How are you? Last job you got me was a tomato.
George: Oh, no, no, no–
Michael: Yeah. Swear to God.
George: Michael? Oh, God! I begged you to get therapy.
Payback time as it were.
Michael: You know what my problem is as Dorothy?
Jeff: Cramps?
There he goes, stealing the show again.
Michael: Sandy, I want you.
Sandy: You want me?
Michael: I want you. I want you.
[after they have sex]
Sandy: Will I ever see you again? -
Michael: Sandy, we’ve known each other six years.
Sandy: I know. But sex changes things. I’ve had relationships where l know a guy, then have sex with him…and then I bump into him and he acts like I loaned him money.
Sex ever change anything here?
Julie: You know what I wish, just once?
Dorothy Michaels: What?
Julie: That a guy could be honest enough just to walk right up to me and say, "Hey, listen, you know, I'm confused about this too. I could lay a big line on you, we could do a lot of role-playing. But the simple truth is, I find you very interesting, and I'd really like to make love with you." Simple as that. Wouldn't that be a relief?
Dorothy Michaels: Heaven. Sheer heaven.
And then as Michael he runs that by her at a party. She slaps him in the face as I recall.
Dorothy: My goodness!
April: What’s wrong?
Dorothy: I have to kiss Dr. Brewster!
April: Oh, yeah. He kisses all the women. We call him “The Tongue.”
We'll see about that.
Michael [after the phone rings]: Don’t answer that!
Jeff: Why not?
Michael: lt could be for Dorothy. Please.
Jeff: Why’d you give them this number?
Dorothy: The show has to contact me in case they change the schedule.
Jeff: I’ll find out.
Michael: They can’t think Dorothy lives with a man! It’s wrong for her.
Jeff: It could be for me. Answer as Dorothy.
Michael: I can’t! What if it’s Sandy?
Jeff: If it’s Diane, how do l explain there’s a woman here?
Michael: I’ll get a service tomorrow.
Jeff: You know, when you were playing Cyrano and you stuck a sabre in my armpit…I didn’t say anything. When you were hopping around, ranting about your hump saying this was a bell tower, I didn’t say anything. But I don’t see why I should pretend I’m not home just because you’re not that kind of girl. That’s weird.
Michael: Where are you going?
Jeff: To Diane’s. That way if anybody wants to reach me, including Diane, they can talk to me.
Of course, Jeff thrives on this shit. Well, whatever that means.
Fan: Did you give Melanie an overdose on purpose?
April: I don’t know. I don’t write the shit, you know.
Let's go back to April in the dressing room.
Jeff: You don’t have a thing to wear?
Michael: She’s seen me in all these.
Jeff: Not in the white thing.
Michael: What, this? You cannot wear white to a casual dinner. It’s too dressy.
Jeff: You couldn’t wear pants?
Michael: No. Pants? I can’t.
Jeff [picking up a dress]: What about this thing?
Michael: No shoes for it. The lines make me look hippy…and it cuts me across the bust.
Jeff: I think we’re getting into a weird area here.
The Devil Wears Prada bullshit, he quipped.
Michael [after Sandy has seen Michael going into his apartment dressed as Dorothy]: Sandy, I’m not having an affair with the woman who went into my apartment earlier, alright? It’s impossible.
Unless you count masturbation, right Woody?
Dorothy [going off script]: May I say in my own defence to tell a woman with two children, no money and a husband who beats her up like this to move into a welfare centre to get therapy is a lot of horseshit! I wouldn’t do it, would you?
Actor: I can’t act with this.
Dorothy: Oh, shut up.
Even Ron is nonplussed here. Or, rather, especially Ron
Julie: I know I’m pretty and I use it. I just guess I shouldn’t have gone to Dr. Brewster’s office so late.
Dorothy [going off script]: Well, no, that’s not true. You know, Dr. Brewster has tried to seduce several nurses on this ward, always claiming to be in the throes of an uncontrollable impulse. Do you know what?
Ron: Uh-oh.
Dorothy: I think I’m gonna give every nurse on this floor an electric cattle prod, and just instruct them to just zap him in his badoobies.
Ron: Cattle prod?
Dorothy [to secretary on phone]: Ruby? Hi, you wanna open the Yellow Pages under the section, Farm Equipment Retail…
See what I mean?
Michael: I am Dorothy. Nobody’s writing her. It’s coming out of me.
George: You’re Michael acting Dorothy.
Michael: It’s the same thing. I’m experiencing these feelings. Why can’t you get me a special? I feel I have something to say to women.
George: You have nothing to say to women.
Michael: That’s not true. I have plenty to say to women. I’ve been an unemployed actor for years! I know what it’s like to wait for the phone to ring! Then when I finally get a job, I have no control! I got zip! If I could impart that experience to other women–
George: You’ve got to listen to me Michael, there are no other women like you. You’re a man!
Tell that to Les?
Jeff: I’m just afraid that you’re going to burn in Hell for all this.
Michael: No, I believe in unemployment, but I don’t believe in Hell.
Can you tell the difference?
John: I’m just an untalented old has-been.
Dorothy: Were you ever famous?
John: No.
Dorothy: Then how can you be a has-been?
Go ahead, use that yourself.
Sandy: A guy named Les is sending you candy?
Michael: Yes. He’s a friend of mine. He can’t eat candy. He’s diabetic.
Sandy: Why is he thanking you for a lovely night in front of the fire.
Michael: My mind is a blank.
Sandy: Micheal, are you gay?
Michael: In what sense?
Enrage her?
Jeff: You slut!
Michael Dorsey: Don't - don't - don't start in with me. Don't - don't do that. Rape is not a laughing matter.
Especially in a comedy?
Michael: She thinks I’m gay, I told her about Julie and she thinks I’m gay!
George: Julie thinks your gay?
Michael: No, my friend Sandy.
George: Sleep with her, and she’ll…
Michael: I slept with her once she’s still thinks I’m gay!
George: Oh… that's no good, Michael.
That ever happen to you?
Michael: You should have seen the look on her face when she thought I was a lesbian.
George: “Lesbian”? You just said gay.
Michael: No, no, no - SANDY thinks I’m gay, JULIE thinks I’m a lesbian.
George: I thought Dorothy was supposed to be straight?
Michael: Dorothy IS straight. Tonight Les, the sweetest, nicest man in the world asked me to marry him.
George: A guy named Les wants YOU to marry him?
Michael: No, no, no - he wants to marry Dorothy.
George: Does he know she’s a lesbian?
Michael: Dorothy’s NOT a lesbian.
George: I know that, does HE know that?
Next up: transgender men and women here weigh in.
Dorothy: Thank you, Gordon. Well, I cannot tell you all how deeply moved I am. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that I would be the object of so much genuine affection. It makes it all the more difficult for me to say what I’m now going to say. Yes. I do feel it’s time to set the record straight. You see, I didn’t come here just as an administrator, Dr. Brewster; I came to this hospital to settle an old score. Now you all know that my father was a brilliant man; he built this hospital. What you don’t know is that to his family, he was an unmerciful tyrant - an absolute dodo bird. He drove my mother, his wife, to - to drink; in fact, she - uh, she she she went riding one time and lost all her teeth. The son Edward became a recluse, and the oldest daughter - the pretty one, the charming one - became pregnant when she was fifteen years old and was driven out of the house. In fact, she was so terrified that she would, uh, that, uh, that, that, that the baby daughter would bear the stigma of illegitimacy that she, she - she decided to change her name and she contracted a disfiguring disease…after moving to Tangiers, which is where she raised the, the, the little girl as her sister. But her one ambition in life - besides the child’s happiness - was to become a nurse, so she returned to the States and joined the staff right here at Southwest General. Well, she worked here, she knew she had to speak out wherever she saw injustice and inhumanity. God save us, you do understand that, don’t you, Dr. Brewster?
John: I never laid a hand on her.
Dorothy: Yes, you did. And she was shunned by all you nurses, too…and by a, what do you call it, what do you call it, a - something like a pariah, to you doctors who found her idealistic and reckless. But she was deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply loved by her brother. It was this brother who, on the day of her death, swore to the good Lord above that he would follow in her footsteps, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just owe it all up to her. But on her terms. As a woman. And just as proud to be a woman as she ever was. For I am not Emily Kimberly, the daughter of Dwayne and Alma Kimberly. No, I’m not. I’m Edward Kimberly, the recluse brother of my sister Anthea. Edward Kimberly, who has finally vindicated his sister’s good name. I am Edward Kimberly. Edward Kimberly. And I’m not mentally ill, but proud, and lucky, and strong enough to be the woman that was the best part of my manhood. The best part of myself.
That's what it all leads up to. On the other hand, look at us now?
Les: Why’d you do it?
Michael: I needed the work.
Les: The only reason you’re still living is because I never kissed you.
Now they can become buddies.
Julie: I miss Dorothy.
Michael: You don’t have to. She’s right here. And she misses you.
Now they can become lovers.
Michael [to Julie]: Look, you don’t know me from Adam. But I was a better man with you, as a woman…than I ever was with a woman, as a man. You know what I mean? I just gotta learn to do it without the dress. At this point, there might be an advantage to my wearing pants. The hard part’s over, you know? We were already…good friends.
No sequel however.
Right?
I’ve heard some folks liken this to Disclosure: How dare them aim charges of sexual harassment in the workplace at women! But a man pretending to be a woman on the job makes this one all the more ambiguous. And it’s not like the actual women here aren’t treated like shit. Ron just doesn’t know that Dorothy isn’t a woman. But basically you have this man pretending to be a woman showing all the actual women how to stop taking shit from macho assholes like Ron. Like there is no way that women could think stuff up like this themselves. Or fight back against it.
At the same time, it seems to buy into all that plastic fashion bullshit about women being obsessed with what they wear and with what they look like. And Julie of course is smashing.
On the other hand, she is also pretty damn cynical.
But the subtext – that the motion picture industry [and television] is just in the business of pure “entertainment” – is ambiguous too. After all, one could argue that this is all Tootsie is.
Why oh why can’t “reality” just be one thing or the other. Oh well. There on the wall at Michael’s birthday party is a poster of Samuel Beckett. But, instead of godot, we get Ron and Les and John van Horn.
Look for Bill Murray to steal the show. Oh, and Teri Garr.
Dustin Hoffman allegedly tried out his role as Dorothy by passing himself off as his daughter’s Aunt Dorothy at her parent’s evening at school. His performance was so strong he actually convinced the teachers present. They never suspected.
Bill Murray agreed to omit his name from the opening credits to prevent audiences expecting a “Bill Murray” movie along the lines of Meatballs (1979) or Caddyshack (1980).
Well known transvestite actor Holly Woodlawn was hired by the producers of Tootsie to coach actor Dustin Hoffman in his role as ‘Michael Dorsey/Dorothy Michaels’ in the intricate art of being a man acting as a woman in films as he prepared for this role.
The actors were told not to approach their characters as comedic characters, but as dramatic characters in a funny situation. In Sydney, Australia, director Sydney Pollack commented “No one ever laughed during the shooting of any scenes of the film. It’s only funny because of its story structure.” IMDb
Tootsie
[Casting: The reading was fine. You’re the wrong height.
Michael: I can be taller.
Casting: No. We’re looking for somebody shorter.
Michael: Look. I don’t have to be this tall. See, I’m wearing lifts. I can be shorter.
Casting: I know, but really we’re looking for somebody different.
Michael: I can be different.
Casting: We’re looking for somebody else.
How about a beefsteak tomato?
Jeff: I don’t want a full house at the Winter Garden Theatre. I want people who just came out of the worst rainstorm in history. These are people who are alive on the planet…until they dry off. I wish I had a theatre that was only open when it rained.
Anyone here post only in the rain? How about only in a severe thunderstorm?
Jeff: I don’t like it when people come up to me after my plays and say, “I really dug your message, man.” Or, “I really dug your play, man, I cried.” You know. I like it when people come up to me the next day, or a week later, and they say, “I saw your play. What happened?”
Or the equivalent of that here? You know, up in the pedantic clouds.
Jeff: I did a thing about suicides of the American lndian. And nobody cared. Nobody showed. And I think the American Indian is as American as John and Ethel Barrymore…and Donny and Marie Osmond. I think it’s really sad…but I think that, nowadays, when people dream they don’t even dream in their own country anymore. And that’s sick.
Anyone here dream in a different country? how about a different planet?
Michael: I don’t know what you’re playing.
Sandy: I’m playing rage. I’m enraged. You told me to turn the tables. I’m playing rage.
Michael: This is rage?
Sandy: I know. I have a problem with anger.
Michael: You do. But there are a 100 other actresses reading who don’t, who aren’t afraid of working. Who aren’t afraid to stick everything on the line and do it!
Sandy: Don’t get mad!
Michael: Stop being a doormat!
Sandy: I’m not a doormat!
Michael: Act right now! Do it!
Of course, she's still just not right for the part.
Sandy: How can I get the rage back tomorrow? How can a total stranger enrage me?
Michael: Okay, I’ll pick you up at 10 tomorrow and enrage you.
Nope, it still doesn't work. The scripted parts let's call them.
George: OK, I know this is going to disgust you, Michael, but a lot of people are in this business to make money.
Michael: You make it out like I’m some flake, George. I am in this business to make money, too.
George: Really?
Michael: Yes!
George: The Harlem Theatre for the Blind? Strindberg in the Park? The People’s Workshop in Syracuse?
Michael: OK, now wait a minute. I did nine plays in eight months up in Syracuse. I happened to get great reviews from the New York critics, not that that’s why I did it.
George: Oh, of course not. God forbid you should lose your standing as a cult failure.
Which he then apologizes for saying. All the way up to the Russian Tea Room.
George: Where do you come off sending me your roommate’s play for you to star in? I’m your agent, not your mother! I’m not supposed to find plays for you to star in - I’m supposed to field offers! And that’s what I do!
Michael: ‘Field offers?’ Who told you that, the Agent Fairy? That was a significant piece of work - I could’ve been terrific in that part.
George: Michael, nobody’s gonna do that play.
Michael: Why?
George: Because it’s a downer, that’s why. Because nobody wants to produce a play about a couple that moved back to Love Canal.
Michael: But that actually happened!
George: WHO GIVES A SHIT?! Nobody wants to pay twenty dollars to watch people living next to chemical waste! They can see that in New Jersey!
Hollywood let's call it.
Michael: Are you saying that nobody in New York will work with me?
George: No, no, that’s too limited… Nobody in Hollywood wants to work with you either. I can’t even set you up for a commercial. You played a tomato for 30 seconds - they went a half a day over schedule because you wouldn’t sit down.
Michael: Of course. It was illogical.
George: YOU WERE A TOMATO. A tomato doesn’t have logic! A tomato can’t move!
Michael Dorsey: That’s what I said. So if he can’t move, how’s he gonna sit down, George? I was a stand-up tomato: a juicy, sexy, beefsteak tomato. Nobody does vegetables like me. I did an evening of vegetables off-Broadway. I did the best tomato, the best cucumber…I did an endive salad that knocked the critics on their ass.
See, I told you.
Dorothy: I think I know what you want. You want a caricature of a woman. To prove some point like power makes a woman masculine…or masculine women are ugly. Well, shame on any woman that lets you do that. And that means you, Miss Marshall. Shame on you, you macho shithead.
Rita: Jesus!
Ron: What is idiotic about power making a woman masculine? Not that that was my point.
Let's run this by, well, you know.
Rita: Miss Michaels, just a minute. Was that for real or were you auditioning?
Dorothy: Which answer will get me a reading, Miss Marshall?
The perfect answer?
Michael [dressed as Dorothy]: George. George. George. It’s Michael Dorsey, okay? Your favourite client. How are you? Last job you got me was a tomato.
George: Oh, no, no, no–
Michael: Yeah. Swear to God.
George: Michael? Oh, God! I begged you to get therapy.
Payback time as it were.
Michael: You know what my problem is as Dorothy?
Jeff: Cramps?
There he goes, stealing the show again.
Michael: Sandy, I want you.
Sandy: You want me?
Michael: I want you. I want you.
[after they have sex]
Sandy: Will I ever see you again? -
Michael: Sandy, we’ve known each other six years.
Sandy: I know. But sex changes things. I’ve had relationships where l know a guy, then have sex with him…and then I bump into him and he acts like I loaned him money.
Sex ever change anything here?
Julie: You know what I wish, just once?
Dorothy Michaels: What?
Julie: That a guy could be honest enough just to walk right up to me and say, "Hey, listen, you know, I'm confused about this too. I could lay a big line on you, we could do a lot of role-playing. But the simple truth is, I find you very interesting, and I'd really like to make love with you." Simple as that. Wouldn't that be a relief?
Dorothy Michaels: Heaven. Sheer heaven.
And then as Michael he runs that by her at a party. She slaps him in the face as I recall.
Dorothy: My goodness!
April: What’s wrong?
Dorothy: I have to kiss Dr. Brewster!
April: Oh, yeah. He kisses all the women. We call him “The Tongue.”
We'll see about that.
Michael [after the phone rings]: Don’t answer that!
Jeff: Why not?
Michael: lt could be for Dorothy. Please.
Jeff: Why’d you give them this number?
Dorothy: The show has to contact me in case they change the schedule.
Jeff: I’ll find out.
Michael: They can’t think Dorothy lives with a man! It’s wrong for her.
Jeff: It could be for me. Answer as Dorothy.
Michael: I can’t! What if it’s Sandy?
Jeff: If it’s Diane, how do l explain there’s a woman here?
Michael: I’ll get a service tomorrow.
Jeff: You know, when you were playing Cyrano and you stuck a sabre in my armpit…I didn’t say anything. When you were hopping around, ranting about your hump saying this was a bell tower, I didn’t say anything. But I don’t see why I should pretend I’m not home just because you’re not that kind of girl. That’s weird.
Michael: Where are you going?
Jeff: To Diane’s. That way if anybody wants to reach me, including Diane, they can talk to me.
Of course, Jeff thrives on this shit. Well, whatever that means.
Fan: Did you give Melanie an overdose on purpose?
April: I don’t know. I don’t write the shit, you know.
Let's go back to April in the dressing room.
Jeff: You don’t have a thing to wear?
Michael: She’s seen me in all these.
Jeff: Not in the white thing.
Michael: What, this? You cannot wear white to a casual dinner. It’s too dressy.
Jeff: You couldn’t wear pants?
Michael: No. Pants? I can’t.
Jeff [picking up a dress]: What about this thing?
Michael: No shoes for it. The lines make me look hippy…and it cuts me across the bust.
Jeff: I think we’re getting into a weird area here.
The Devil Wears Prada bullshit, he quipped.
Michael [after Sandy has seen Michael going into his apartment dressed as Dorothy]: Sandy, I’m not having an affair with the woman who went into my apartment earlier, alright? It’s impossible.
Unless you count masturbation, right Woody?
Dorothy [going off script]: May I say in my own defence to tell a woman with two children, no money and a husband who beats her up like this to move into a welfare centre to get therapy is a lot of horseshit! I wouldn’t do it, would you?
Actor: I can’t act with this.
Dorothy: Oh, shut up.
Even Ron is nonplussed here. Or, rather, especially Ron
Julie: I know I’m pretty and I use it. I just guess I shouldn’t have gone to Dr. Brewster’s office so late.
Dorothy [going off script]: Well, no, that’s not true. You know, Dr. Brewster has tried to seduce several nurses on this ward, always claiming to be in the throes of an uncontrollable impulse. Do you know what?
Ron: Uh-oh.
Dorothy: I think I’m gonna give every nurse on this floor an electric cattle prod, and just instruct them to just zap him in his badoobies.
Ron: Cattle prod?
Dorothy [to secretary on phone]: Ruby? Hi, you wanna open the Yellow Pages under the section, Farm Equipment Retail…
See what I mean?
Michael: I am Dorothy. Nobody’s writing her. It’s coming out of me.
George: You’re Michael acting Dorothy.
Michael: It’s the same thing. I’m experiencing these feelings. Why can’t you get me a special? I feel I have something to say to women.
George: You have nothing to say to women.
Michael: That’s not true. I have plenty to say to women. I’ve been an unemployed actor for years! I know what it’s like to wait for the phone to ring! Then when I finally get a job, I have no control! I got zip! If I could impart that experience to other women–
George: You’ve got to listen to me Michael, there are no other women like you. You’re a man!
Tell that to Les?
Jeff: I’m just afraid that you’re going to burn in Hell for all this.
Michael: No, I believe in unemployment, but I don’t believe in Hell.
Can you tell the difference?
John: I’m just an untalented old has-been.
Dorothy: Were you ever famous?
John: No.
Dorothy: Then how can you be a has-been?
Go ahead, use that yourself.
Sandy: A guy named Les is sending you candy?
Michael: Yes. He’s a friend of mine. He can’t eat candy. He’s diabetic.
Sandy: Why is he thanking you for a lovely night in front of the fire.
Michael: My mind is a blank.
Sandy: Micheal, are you gay?
Michael: In what sense?
Enrage her?
Jeff: You slut!
Michael Dorsey: Don't - don't - don't start in with me. Don't - don't do that. Rape is not a laughing matter.
Especially in a comedy?
Michael: She thinks I’m gay, I told her about Julie and she thinks I’m gay!
George: Julie thinks your gay?
Michael: No, my friend Sandy.
George: Sleep with her, and she’ll…
Michael: I slept with her once she’s still thinks I’m gay!
George: Oh… that's no good, Michael.
That ever happen to you?
Michael: You should have seen the look on her face when she thought I was a lesbian.
George: “Lesbian”? You just said gay.
Michael: No, no, no - SANDY thinks I’m gay, JULIE thinks I’m a lesbian.
George: I thought Dorothy was supposed to be straight?
Michael: Dorothy IS straight. Tonight Les, the sweetest, nicest man in the world asked me to marry him.
George: A guy named Les wants YOU to marry him?
Michael: No, no, no - he wants to marry Dorothy.
George: Does he know she’s a lesbian?
Michael: Dorothy’s NOT a lesbian.
George: I know that, does HE know that?
Next up: transgender men and women here weigh in.
Dorothy: Thank you, Gordon. Well, I cannot tell you all how deeply moved I am. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that I would be the object of so much genuine affection. It makes it all the more difficult for me to say what I’m now going to say. Yes. I do feel it’s time to set the record straight. You see, I didn’t come here just as an administrator, Dr. Brewster; I came to this hospital to settle an old score. Now you all know that my father was a brilliant man; he built this hospital. What you don’t know is that to his family, he was an unmerciful tyrant - an absolute dodo bird. He drove my mother, his wife, to - to drink; in fact, she - uh, she she she went riding one time and lost all her teeth. The son Edward became a recluse, and the oldest daughter - the pretty one, the charming one - became pregnant when she was fifteen years old and was driven out of the house. In fact, she was so terrified that she would, uh, that, uh, that, that, that the baby daughter would bear the stigma of illegitimacy that she, she - she decided to change her name and she contracted a disfiguring disease…after moving to Tangiers, which is where she raised the, the, the little girl as her sister. But her one ambition in life - besides the child’s happiness - was to become a nurse, so she returned to the States and joined the staff right here at Southwest General. Well, she worked here, she knew she had to speak out wherever she saw injustice and inhumanity. God save us, you do understand that, don’t you, Dr. Brewster?
John: I never laid a hand on her.
Dorothy: Yes, you did. And she was shunned by all you nurses, too…and by a, what do you call it, what do you call it, a - something like a pariah, to you doctors who found her idealistic and reckless. But she was deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply loved by her brother. It was this brother who, on the day of her death, swore to the good Lord above that he would follow in her footsteps, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just owe it all up to her. But on her terms. As a woman. And just as proud to be a woman as she ever was. For I am not Emily Kimberly, the daughter of Dwayne and Alma Kimberly. No, I’m not. I’m Edward Kimberly, the recluse brother of my sister Anthea. Edward Kimberly, who has finally vindicated his sister’s good name. I am Edward Kimberly. Edward Kimberly. And I’m not mentally ill, but proud, and lucky, and strong enough to be the woman that was the best part of my manhood. The best part of myself.
That's what it all leads up to. On the other hand, look at us now?
Les: Why’d you do it?
Michael: I needed the work.
Les: The only reason you’re still living is because I never kissed you.
Now they can become buddies.
Julie: I miss Dorothy.
Michael: You don’t have to. She’s right here. And she misses you.
Now they can become lovers.
Michael [to Julie]: Look, you don’t know me from Adam. But I was a better man with you, as a woman…than I ever was with a woman, as a man. You know what I mean? I just gotta learn to do it without the dress. At this point, there might be an advantage to my wearing pants. The hard part’s over, you know? We were already…good friends.
No sequel however.
Right?
- iambiguous
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- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Sex
“I felt like an animal, and animals don’t know sin, do they?” Jess C. Scott
None that I'm aware of. Unless you count...us?
“You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred.” Woody Allen
You know the ones.
“Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.” Woody Allen
Someone run this by Satyr too.
“Lift your hips for me, love." Tahereh Mafi
You bet!
“If our sex life were determined by our first youthful experiments, most of the world would be doomed to celibacy. In no area of human experience are human beings more convinced that something better can be had only if they persevere.” P.D. James
Let's trade accounts.
“He fucks even better than he looks”, I settled on saying. Several heads turned. I didn’t care; I was pissed. “And that beautiful face is going to be clamped between my legs as soon as we get home, don’t you worry.” Jeaniene Frost
Head?
“I felt like an animal, and animals don’t know sin, do they?” Jess C. Scott
None that I'm aware of. Unless you count...us?
“You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred.” Woody Allen
You know the ones.
“Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.” Woody Allen
Someone run this by Satyr too.
“Lift your hips for me, love." Tahereh Mafi
You bet!
“If our sex life were determined by our first youthful experiments, most of the world would be doomed to celibacy. In no area of human experience are human beings more convinced that something better can be had only if they persevere.” P.D. James
Let's trade accounts.
“He fucks even better than he looks”, I settled on saying. Several heads turned. I didn’t care; I was pissed. “And that beautiful face is going to be clamped between my legs as soon as we get home, don’t you worry.” Jeaniene Frost
Head?
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Based on the actual crimes of this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Johnston_(criminal)
Whether crime pays or not there are always going to be folks drawn to it. If only because life seems more appealing when there is adrenaline pumping through you. And the more you put it all at risk the more adrenaline there seems to be.
Or maybe they’re just in it for the money.
And when it runs in the family there are that many less role models to scare you straight. But then there are also so many more things that can put relationships like this under stress. There’s just no telling how or when it might go off the rails.
Here the son pops into his father’s life seemingly out of the blue. Pop can barely remember his name. And the thing about being in a family like this is that it only stays intact until the law comes between them. Then it is every man for himself. And that means the big dog does whatever it takes to stay out of the joint. And I mean anything. And once the killing starts, there’s no end to it. Not until every threat is eliminated.
Brad Sr. is a true sociopath. It’s me, myself and I clear down to the fucking bone.
Love is kind of tricky here too. Especially young love. Being bad is good. Until it ain’t.
When Christopher Walken works with guns in film, he checks them himself before each scene for safety reasons and his own personal ease. During the scene when Sean Penn sticks a gun in Walken’s face, Walken checked the gun before the scene started. Before the director had the chance to say “Action”, Penn ran off camera and shouted, “Give me the other gun!” He immediately returned to Walken and started the scene. This is the cut that made it into the movie, and Walken was really terrified. IMDb
At Close Range
Ernie [to Brad Jr.]: You know that shit you guys are smokin is going to rot your brains. But I guess in your case that ain’t no damage, is it?
Too close to call sometimes.
Ernie [referring to the TV]: I need some sleep. You turn that damn thing on again, I’ll beat the Jesus out of you.
Brad Jr.: There ain’t no Jesus in me, Ernie.
Not anymore.
Brad Jr. [after Brad Sr. and the gang leave the house]: So, where they going?
And then he's going with them. And it ain't to church.
Terry [to Brad Jr.]: Your father’s got kind of a rep.
Like the one I've got here, he quipped.
[Dad gives his son a car]
Brad Jr.: Is it legal?
Brad Sr.: Yeah, it’s legal. But there are parts on it borrowed.
Gee, I wonder what that means...
Uncle Patch [to Brad Jr]: Let’s me and you go into the next room and start sniffin’ some ideas.
Next up: sniffin' ideas here.
Brad Sr. [to his sons]: Most people who drive through here see farms. Houses, and fields, and shit. I see money. Everywhere I go I see money. I see things, and everything got my name writ’ on it!
Writ large as it were.
Terry: You know what I don’t get is why they let everyone out but they set Brad’s bail so high.
Brad Sr.: They figure if he is in there long enough he’ll know what to say.
Terry: About what?
[Brad Sr. looks at her as though to say ‘you figure it out’]
Terry: Oh…
Oh, and then some she'll find out.
Brad Sr.: You scared yet? You oughta be.
Terry: I’m not scared of you.
Brad Sr.: Not scared yet? No?
Heading in the general direction of maybe?
Terry: The answer is no.
Brad Sr.: I ain’t asking.
Terry: The answer is no
[he throws her on the bed and rapes her]
Joon!
Brad Sr.: Ever been out west, Tommy?
Tommy: No.
Brad Sr.: Ever heard a coyote?
Tommy: No.
Brad Sr.: They make this sound like “woo, woo, woo!” Coyote bitch gets in heat. First thing she does, she take care of the males. Then she heads toward town. All the neighborhood dogs, they smell her. They go crazy. They follow her. She lures them out on to the desert. Coyote get dog out there…alone. All the other coyotes come along, they circle 'round…they kill that dog, eat it. Tommy, if you go in front of that grand jury, what will you say?
Tommy: Nothing.
[he starts to cry]
Tommy: Dad…
Brad Sr.: LIAR!
[he shoots him]
As in bang, bang, you're dead.
Terry: I forgot to feed the dog…
Famous last words? No really, I forget.
Brad Jr.: Is this the gun you used?
Brad Sr.: That’s a nice looking gun.
Brad Jr.: Is this the gun you used to kill Tommy? Tommy’s dead isn’t he?
Brad Sr.: Don’t even talk about Tommy.
Brad Jr.: Is this the gun you used to kill Terry?
Brad Sr.: I didn’t do nothing to Terry.
[Brad Jr. fires a shot]
Brad Sr.: NO! NO! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!
Brad Jr.: IS THIS THE GUN YOU USED ON EVERYONE? ON ME?
[more shots]
Brad Jr.: Is this the family gun Dad?
Used to blow him away?
Brad Jr [to his father]: No. No, I ain’t you. And this is too easy. I want you to die slow. I want you to die every day for the rest of your life.
That would be August 8th, 1962.
Whether crime pays or not there are always going to be folks drawn to it. If only because life seems more appealing when there is adrenaline pumping through you. And the more you put it all at risk the more adrenaline there seems to be.
Or maybe they’re just in it for the money.
And when it runs in the family there are that many less role models to scare you straight. But then there are also so many more things that can put relationships like this under stress. There’s just no telling how or when it might go off the rails.
Here the son pops into his father’s life seemingly out of the blue. Pop can barely remember his name. And the thing about being in a family like this is that it only stays intact until the law comes between them. Then it is every man for himself. And that means the big dog does whatever it takes to stay out of the joint. And I mean anything. And once the killing starts, there’s no end to it. Not until every threat is eliminated.
Brad Sr. is a true sociopath. It’s me, myself and I clear down to the fucking bone.
Love is kind of tricky here too. Especially young love. Being bad is good. Until it ain’t.
When Christopher Walken works with guns in film, he checks them himself before each scene for safety reasons and his own personal ease. During the scene when Sean Penn sticks a gun in Walken’s face, Walken checked the gun before the scene started. Before the director had the chance to say “Action”, Penn ran off camera and shouted, “Give me the other gun!” He immediately returned to Walken and started the scene. This is the cut that made it into the movie, and Walken was really terrified. IMDb
At Close Range
Ernie [to Brad Jr.]: You know that shit you guys are smokin is going to rot your brains. But I guess in your case that ain’t no damage, is it?
Too close to call sometimes.
Ernie [referring to the TV]: I need some sleep. You turn that damn thing on again, I’ll beat the Jesus out of you.
Brad Jr.: There ain’t no Jesus in me, Ernie.
Not anymore.
Brad Jr. [after Brad Sr. and the gang leave the house]: So, where they going?
And then he's going with them. And it ain't to church.
Terry [to Brad Jr.]: Your father’s got kind of a rep.
Like the one I've got here, he quipped.
[Dad gives his son a car]
Brad Jr.: Is it legal?
Brad Sr.: Yeah, it’s legal. But there are parts on it borrowed.
Gee, I wonder what that means...
Uncle Patch [to Brad Jr]: Let’s me and you go into the next room and start sniffin’ some ideas.
Next up: sniffin' ideas here.
Brad Sr. [to his sons]: Most people who drive through here see farms. Houses, and fields, and shit. I see money. Everywhere I go I see money. I see things, and everything got my name writ’ on it!
Writ large as it were.
Terry: You know what I don’t get is why they let everyone out but they set Brad’s bail so high.
Brad Sr.: They figure if he is in there long enough he’ll know what to say.
Terry: About what?
[Brad Sr. looks at her as though to say ‘you figure it out’]
Terry: Oh…
Oh, and then some she'll find out.
Brad Sr.: You scared yet? You oughta be.
Terry: I’m not scared of you.
Brad Sr.: Not scared yet? No?
Heading in the general direction of maybe?
Terry: The answer is no.
Brad Sr.: I ain’t asking.
Terry: The answer is no
[he throws her on the bed and rapes her]
Joon!
Brad Sr.: Ever been out west, Tommy?
Tommy: No.
Brad Sr.: Ever heard a coyote?
Tommy: No.
Brad Sr.: They make this sound like “woo, woo, woo!” Coyote bitch gets in heat. First thing she does, she take care of the males. Then she heads toward town. All the neighborhood dogs, they smell her. They go crazy. They follow her. She lures them out on to the desert. Coyote get dog out there…alone. All the other coyotes come along, they circle 'round…they kill that dog, eat it. Tommy, if you go in front of that grand jury, what will you say?
Tommy: Nothing.
[he starts to cry]
Tommy: Dad…
Brad Sr.: LIAR!
[he shoots him]
As in bang, bang, you're dead.
Terry: I forgot to feed the dog…
Famous last words? No really, I forget.
Brad Jr.: Is this the gun you used?
Brad Sr.: That’s a nice looking gun.
Brad Jr.: Is this the gun you used to kill Tommy? Tommy’s dead isn’t he?
Brad Sr.: Don’t even talk about Tommy.
Brad Jr.: Is this the gun you used to kill Terry?
Brad Sr.: I didn’t do nothing to Terry.
[Brad Jr. fires a shot]
Brad Sr.: NO! NO! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!
Brad Jr.: IS THIS THE GUN YOU USED ON EVERYONE? ON ME?
[more shots]
Brad Jr.: Is this the family gun Dad?
Used to blow him away?
Brad Jr [to his father]: No. No, I ain’t you. And this is too easy. I want you to die slow. I want you to die every day for the rest of your life.
That would be August 8th, 1962.
- iambiguous
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- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
The Matrix and philosophy? Sure, they are made for each other. In fact, someone has already written the book: https://www.amazon.com/The-Matrix-Philo ... 081269502X
This is what films like Avatar don’t really have any inclination to explore: contexts that make you think. The Matrix is filled with all manner of special effects too. But it delves into the relationship between what you think you know is true and lots of mind-boggling variables that might predispose you to go in conflicting directions. Mind and matter on a whole different level. There is the human mind and there is the machine mind. But what’s the difference? And what happens when the AI mind “takes over”. So this is more along the lines of The Terminator. A retelling of it really. John Connor. The One.
There are just so many different ways in which to wrap your head around “reality” here. Or try to. For example: What IS the reality here? And how much of what you think is real are you really able to understand and to control? Do we have any autonomy at all? And of course there is always this: Does the Matrix? Or perhaps the Matrix itself is just inside another Matrix. And that it is actually Matrixes all the way down. Everyone will connect these “inside” and “outside” worlds in different ways. After all, who among us can really grasp how these “realities” are interconnected?
Of course whatever world we are in, the laws of physics do whatever the One wants them to. By the end of the film we are up to our knees in the supernatural. A fairy tale practically.
Worlds within worlds within worlds amidst endless speculation about what the hell that means. And there’s plenty of room to speculate about God and religion, of course. In fact, some insist that is precisely where they jumped the shark here: bringing in the “Oracle”. All that mumbo-jumbo bullshit about “knowing the future” in other words. And almost certainly in the name of all that is Good.
And where would I even begin to factor in dasein, conflicting goods and political economy if all this stuff were actually true. It’s possible that even the objectivists might be scratching their heads for a while. You know, before finally pinning What It All Means to the mat. Of course the first thing they will do is to define “real”.
And I have often believed that objectivists define reality without taking into account the manner in which I construe dasein. Reality [identity] as dasein is a kind of matrix. It points you in a direction in which you come to grasp just how much of what you think is true is merely a reflection of the reality you have derived from the particular life you have lived out in a particular world.
Objectivists then [ironically] become a prisoner in a cell that they build themselves. They become a slave to their own analysis of how all the parts fit together…of how one ought to live.
And it goes without saying that The One is going to be a handsome young white male.
The Wachowskis approached Warner with the idea of the Matrix and Warner balked at the budget they had submitted, which was over $80 million. Warner instead agreed to give them $10 million. The Wachowskis took the money and filmed the first ten minutes of the movie using the entire $10 million. They then showed the executives at Warner the opening scene. They were impressed, and green-lit the original asking budget.The book Neo hides his computer discs in is called “Simulacra and Simulation” a treatise by Jean Baudrillard that explores the postmodern concept of simulation and hyperreality. The chapter where they’re hidden is called “On Nihilism”. Nihilism often involves a sense of despair coupled with the belief that life is devoid of meaning. All the color blue was sucked out of the exterior shots to convey how grim the world of the Matrix actually is. The studio insisted on a great deal of explanatory dialog as they described the screenplay as “the script that nobody understands”. IMDb
The Matrix
Lieutenant: I think we can handle one little girl. I sent two units, they’re bringing her down now.
Agent Smith: No lieutenant, your men are already dead.
This ever happen to you?
Neo: You ever have that feeling where you’re not sure if you’re awake or still dreaming?
Choi: All the time. It’s called mescaline.
I hear that! Just not anymore...
Trinity: Please just listen. I know why you’re here, Neo. I know what you’ve been doing. I know why you hardly sleep, why you live alone, and why night after night you sit at your computer. You’re looking for him. I know, because I was once looking for the same thing. And when he found me, he told me I wasn’t really looking for him. I was looking for an answer. It’s the question that drives us mad. It’s the question that brought you here. You know the question just as I did.
Neo: What is the Matrix?
More to the point, perhaps, are we actually a part of one ourselves "here and now"?
Agent Smith: It seems that you’ve been living two lives. In one life, you’re Thomas A. Anderson, program writer for a respectable software company, you have a social security number, you pay your taxes, and you help your landlady carry out her garbage. The other life is lived in computers, where you go by the hacker alias Neo and are guilty of virtually every computer crime we have a law for. One of these lives has a future, and one of them does not.
He forgot to say "click", didn't he?
Agent Smith: Tell me, Mr. Anderson, what good is a phone call when you are unable to speak?
If you get his drift. In any event, cue the CGI.
Morpheus: You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo: No.
Morpheus: Why not?
Neo: Because I don’t like the idea that I’m not in control of my life.
Morpheus: I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain. But you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life. That there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is but it’s there, like a splinter in your mind driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I’m talking about?
Neo: The Matrix?
Morpheus: Do you want to know what IT is? The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us, even now in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo.
Next up: the objectivist slaves here.
Morpheus: This is your last chance, Neo. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.
Next up: you're color blind?
Morpheus: Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?
You know, given The Gap and Rummy's Rule.
Morpheus [to Neo]: Welcome to the real world.
Why does it always have to be that? And then "our real world or theirs?"
Neo: Right now we’re inside a computer program?
Morpheus: Is it really so hard to believe?
I'm half-convinced myself. How else to explain technologies that are all but indistinguishable from magic?
Neo: This isn’t real?
Morpheus: What is real? How do you define ‘real’? If you’re talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then ‘real’ is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain. This is the world that you know. The world as it was at the end of the twentieth century. It exists now only as part of a neural-interactive simulation that we call the Matrix. You’ve been living in a dream world, Neo. This is the world as it exists today… Welcome to the Desert of the Real.
Or, possibly, the Desert of the Virtually Real?
Morpheus: Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate it seems is not without a sense of irony. The human body generates more bio-electricity than a 120-volt battery and over 25,000 BTU’s of body heat. Combined with a form of fusion the machines have found all the energy they would ever need. There are fields, endless fields, where human beings are no longer born, we are grown. For the longest time I wouldn’t believe it, and then I saw the fields with my own eyes. Watch them liquefy the dead so they could be fed intravenously to the living. And standing there, facing the pure horrifying precision, I came to realize the obviousness of the truth. What is the Matrix? Control. The Matrix is a computer generated dream world built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this.
[he holds up a battery]
Neo: No. I don’t believe it. It’s not possible.
Morpheus: I didn’t say it would be easy, Neo. I just said it would be the truth.
Either that or nature's very own automatons?
Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
Next up: being unplugged from dasein.
Agent Smith: Do we have a deal, Mr. Reagan?
Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn’t exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?
[Takes a bite of steak]
Cypher: Ignorance is bliss.
No, really, what if it is?
Tank: Here you go, buddy; “Breakfast of Champions.”
Mouse: If you close your eyes, it almost feels like you’re eating runny eggs.
Apoc: Yeah, or a bowl of snot.
Mouse: Do you know what it really reminds me of? Tasty Wheat. Did you ever eat Tasty Wheat?
Switch: No, but technically, neither did you.
Mouse: That’s exactly my point. Exactly. Because you have to wonder: how do the machines know what Tasty Wheat tasted like? Maybe they got it wrong. Maybe what I think Tasty Wheat tasted like actually tasted like oatmeal, or tuna fish. That makes you wonder about a lot of things. You take chicken, for example: maybe they couldn’t figure out what to make chicken taste like, which is why chicken tastes like everything.
New thread?
Cypher: All I do is what he tells me to do. If I had to choose between that and the Matrix, I’d choose the Matrix.
Trinity: The Matrix isn’t real.
Cypher: I disagree, Trinity. I think that the Matrix can be more real than this world. All I do is pull a plug here, but there… you have to watch Apoc die.
Come on, as with most things, it's as real as you want it to be...or need it to be.
Cypher: If Morpheus was right, then there’s no way I can pull this plug. I mean if Neo is the One, then there would have to be some kind of miracle to stop me. Right? I mean how can he be the One if he’s dead?
Well, that's what scripts are for here, right?
Agent Smith [to Morpheus]: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.
Whatever that means?
Agent Smith: I’d like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you’re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You’re a plague and we are the cure.
That'll work for some more than others, of course.
Neo: There is no spoon.
Next up: Schrödinger's spoon.
Morpheus: Neo, sooner or later you’re going to realize just as I did that there’s a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
A hell of a difference for some.
This is what films like Avatar don’t really have any inclination to explore: contexts that make you think. The Matrix is filled with all manner of special effects too. But it delves into the relationship between what you think you know is true and lots of mind-boggling variables that might predispose you to go in conflicting directions. Mind and matter on a whole different level. There is the human mind and there is the machine mind. But what’s the difference? And what happens when the AI mind “takes over”. So this is more along the lines of The Terminator. A retelling of it really. John Connor. The One.
There are just so many different ways in which to wrap your head around “reality” here. Or try to. For example: What IS the reality here? And how much of what you think is real are you really able to understand and to control? Do we have any autonomy at all? And of course there is always this: Does the Matrix? Or perhaps the Matrix itself is just inside another Matrix. And that it is actually Matrixes all the way down. Everyone will connect these “inside” and “outside” worlds in different ways. After all, who among us can really grasp how these “realities” are interconnected?
Of course whatever world we are in, the laws of physics do whatever the One wants them to. By the end of the film we are up to our knees in the supernatural. A fairy tale practically.
Worlds within worlds within worlds amidst endless speculation about what the hell that means. And there’s plenty of room to speculate about God and religion, of course. In fact, some insist that is precisely where they jumped the shark here: bringing in the “Oracle”. All that mumbo-jumbo bullshit about “knowing the future” in other words. And almost certainly in the name of all that is Good.
And where would I even begin to factor in dasein, conflicting goods and political economy if all this stuff were actually true. It’s possible that even the objectivists might be scratching their heads for a while. You know, before finally pinning What It All Means to the mat. Of course the first thing they will do is to define “real”.
And I have often believed that objectivists define reality without taking into account the manner in which I construe dasein. Reality [identity] as dasein is a kind of matrix. It points you in a direction in which you come to grasp just how much of what you think is true is merely a reflection of the reality you have derived from the particular life you have lived out in a particular world.
Objectivists then [ironically] become a prisoner in a cell that they build themselves. They become a slave to their own analysis of how all the parts fit together…of how one ought to live.
And it goes without saying that The One is going to be a handsome young white male.
The Wachowskis approached Warner with the idea of the Matrix and Warner balked at the budget they had submitted, which was over $80 million. Warner instead agreed to give them $10 million. The Wachowskis took the money and filmed the first ten minutes of the movie using the entire $10 million. They then showed the executives at Warner the opening scene. They were impressed, and green-lit the original asking budget.The book Neo hides his computer discs in is called “Simulacra and Simulation” a treatise by Jean Baudrillard that explores the postmodern concept of simulation and hyperreality. The chapter where they’re hidden is called “On Nihilism”. Nihilism often involves a sense of despair coupled with the belief that life is devoid of meaning. All the color blue was sucked out of the exterior shots to convey how grim the world of the Matrix actually is. The studio insisted on a great deal of explanatory dialog as they described the screenplay as “the script that nobody understands”. IMDb
The Matrix
Lieutenant: I think we can handle one little girl. I sent two units, they’re bringing her down now.
Agent Smith: No lieutenant, your men are already dead.
This ever happen to you?
Neo: You ever have that feeling where you’re not sure if you’re awake or still dreaming?
Choi: All the time. It’s called mescaline.
I hear that! Just not anymore...
Trinity: Please just listen. I know why you’re here, Neo. I know what you’ve been doing. I know why you hardly sleep, why you live alone, and why night after night you sit at your computer. You’re looking for him. I know, because I was once looking for the same thing. And when he found me, he told me I wasn’t really looking for him. I was looking for an answer. It’s the question that drives us mad. It’s the question that brought you here. You know the question just as I did.
Neo: What is the Matrix?
More to the point, perhaps, are we actually a part of one ourselves "here and now"?
Agent Smith: It seems that you’ve been living two lives. In one life, you’re Thomas A. Anderson, program writer for a respectable software company, you have a social security number, you pay your taxes, and you help your landlady carry out her garbage. The other life is lived in computers, where you go by the hacker alias Neo and are guilty of virtually every computer crime we have a law for. One of these lives has a future, and one of them does not.
He forgot to say "click", didn't he?
Agent Smith: Tell me, Mr. Anderson, what good is a phone call when you are unable to speak?
If you get his drift. In any event, cue the CGI.
Morpheus: You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo: No.
Morpheus: Why not?
Neo: Because I don’t like the idea that I’m not in control of my life.
Morpheus: I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain. But you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life. That there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is but it’s there, like a splinter in your mind driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I’m talking about?
Neo: The Matrix?
Morpheus: Do you want to know what IT is? The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us, even now in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo.
Next up: the objectivist slaves here.
Morpheus: This is your last chance, Neo. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.
Next up: you're color blind?
Morpheus: Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?
You know, given The Gap and Rummy's Rule.
Morpheus [to Neo]: Welcome to the real world.
Why does it always have to be that? And then "our real world or theirs?"
Neo: Right now we’re inside a computer program?
Morpheus: Is it really so hard to believe?
I'm half-convinced myself. How else to explain technologies that are all but indistinguishable from magic?
Neo: This isn’t real?
Morpheus: What is real? How do you define ‘real’? If you’re talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then ‘real’ is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain. This is the world that you know. The world as it was at the end of the twentieth century. It exists now only as part of a neural-interactive simulation that we call the Matrix. You’ve been living in a dream world, Neo. This is the world as it exists today… Welcome to the Desert of the Real.
Or, possibly, the Desert of the Virtually Real?
Morpheus: Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate it seems is not without a sense of irony. The human body generates more bio-electricity than a 120-volt battery and over 25,000 BTU’s of body heat. Combined with a form of fusion the machines have found all the energy they would ever need. There are fields, endless fields, where human beings are no longer born, we are grown. For the longest time I wouldn’t believe it, and then I saw the fields with my own eyes. Watch them liquefy the dead so they could be fed intravenously to the living. And standing there, facing the pure horrifying precision, I came to realize the obviousness of the truth. What is the Matrix? Control. The Matrix is a computer generated dream world built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this.
[he holds up a battery]
Neo: No. I don’t believe it. It’s not possible.
Morpheus: I didn’t say it would be easy, Neo. I just said it would be the truth.
Either that or nature's very own automatons?
Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
Next up: being unplugged from dasein.
Agent Smith: Do we have a deal, Mr. Reagan?
Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn’t exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?
[Takes a bite of steak]
Cypher: Ignorance is bliss.
No, really, what if it is?
Tank: Here you go, buddy; “Breakfast of Champions.”
Mouse: If you close your eyes, it almost feels like you’re eating runny eggs.
Apoc: Yeah, or a bowl of snot.
Mouse: Do you know what it really reminds me of? Tasty Wheat. Did you ever eat Tasty Wheat?
Switch: No, but technically, neither did you.
Mouse: That’s exactly my point. Exactly. Because you have to wonder: how do the machines know what Tasty Wheat tasted like? Maybe they got it wrong. Maybe what I think Tasty Wheat tasted like actually tasted like oatmeal, or tuna fish. That makes you wonder about a lot of things. You take chicken, for example: maybe they couldn’t figure out what to make chicken taste like, which is why chicken tastes like everything.
New thread?
Cypher: All I do is what he tells me to do. If I had to choose between that and the Matrix, I’d choose the Matrix.
Trinity: The Matrix isn’t real.
Cypher: I disagree, Trinity. I think that the Matrix can be more real than this world. All I do is pull a plug here, but there… you have to watch Apoc die.
Come on, as with most things, it's as real as you want it to be...or need it to be.
Cypher: If Morpheus was right, then there’s no way I can pull this plug. I mean if Neo is the One, then there would have to be some kind of miracle to stop me. Right? I mean how can he be the One if he’s dead?
Well, that's what scripts are for here, right?
Agent Smith [to Morpheus]: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.
Whatever that means?
Agent Smith: I’d like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you’re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You’re a plague and we are the cure.
That'll work for some more than others, of course.
Neo: There is no spoon.
Next up: Schrödinger's spoon.
Morpheus: Neo, sooner or later you’re going to realize just as I did that there’s a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
A hell of a difference for some.
- iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Identity
“I protect myself by refusing to know myself.” Floriano Martins
I tried that a few times myself. But then "I" fell apart at the seams.
“What's burning down is a re-creation of a period revival house patterned after a copy of a copy of a copy of a mock Tudor big manor house. It's a hundred generations removed from anything original, but the truth is aren't we all?” Chuck Palahniuk
Next up: going all the way back to Adam and Eve?
“I am the sole author of the dictionary that defines me.” Zadie Smith
On the other hand, what if we all thought like that?
“Maybe if I act well enough, I'll come to believe it myself.” Garth Nix.
We're talking Academy Award acting, of course.
“When you become the image of your own imagination, it's the most powerful thing you could ever do.” RuPaul
At least until the Nazis come after you.
“I know who I am without anyone there to tell me.” Leigh Bardugo
Next up: knowing who you're not.
“I protect myself by refusing to know myself.” Floriano Martins
I tried that a few times myself. But then "I" fell apart at the seams.
“What's burning down is a re-creation of a period revival house patterned after a copy of a copy of a copy of a mock Tudor big manor house. It's a hundred generations removed from anything original, but the truth is aren't we all?” Chuck Palahniuk
Next up: going all the way back to Adam and Eve?
“I am the sole author of the dictionary that defines me.” Zadie Smith
On the other hand, what if we all thought like that?
“Maybe if I act well enough, I'll come to believe it myself.” Garth Nix.
We're talking Academy Award acting, of course.
“When you become the image of your own imagination, it's the most powerful thing you could ever do.” RuPaul
At least until the Nazis come after you.
“I know who I am without anyone there to tell me.” Leigh Bardugo
Next up: knowing who you're not.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
This is “television movie”. A “made for TV production”. It is John Carpenter’s sojourn into the life [and legend] of Elvis Presley. Only try to imagine how different that is going to be from a film based on the book by, say, Albert Goldman? It’s really hard to believe sometimes they are the same man. But that’s the way these things go. We take out of a celebrity like Elvis what we first put into him: our own particular wants and needs. Our own particular prejudices.
But it was still a truly amazing life. If only given the gap between how he started out and how he ended up. Everyone had a piece of him. Everyone wanted a piece of him. And that’s because having a piece of him was like having your own private ATM machine.
And Elvis Presley came along right on the cusp of a social, political and cultural revolution that generated all manner of profound [and profoundly problematic] changes. Historic changes. But so much of him was still deeply rooted in folks and family that were basically straight out of the 50s.
It opens with Elvis in Las Vegas. His big comeback on the stage. The night he allegedly pulled out a gun and shot up the television. And just 7 years before he is found dead. And then it goes all the way back to the beginning. It’s his birthday. He wanted a bike but mom and dad couldn’t afford it. They got him a guitar instead.
How accurate is it?
wiki: "According to several reports, Priscilla Presley was paid $50,000 to check the script for accuracy before shooting commenced."
Of course that can only include the part where she was with him. And it assumes she isn’t bending the truth to be more in alignment with her own narrative.
One thing seems certain though: the guy was obsessed with his hair. And oh how he loved his momma. And she was only 46 years old when she died. That in and of itself might explain so much of his life from then on.
It seems that once Elvis became a commodity [a huge cash cow] there were just too many folks hell bent on keeping him that way. And that meant pop. Pure pop. So there are two movies here. One immerses Elvis in the changes that were unfolding musically as “the fifties” become “the sixties”. And the other is when Elvis becomes Colonel Parker’s pigeon. And how he always remained a good ole boy in the Southern tradition of retarded development.
Elvis Presley’s father Vernon was played by Kurt Russell’s father, Bing Russell.
Kurt Russell’s then wife Season Hubley plays Elvis’s wife Priscilla Presley.
In an interview director John Carpenter said that they had to glue Kurt Russell’s ears back because they stuck too far out making him look less like Elvis. IMDb
Elvis
[Sam Phillips secretary: What kind of singer are you?
Elvis: All kinds.
Secretary: Who do you sound like?
Elvis: I don’t sound like nobody.
At the time, who could deny it?
Secretary: Well, did you hear it?
Sam: Hear what?
Secretary: The Negro sound. You said if you could find a white man with the Negro sound and feel, you could make yourself a million dollars.
Cue Colonel Parker.
Colonel Parker: You know boys there were times that were so bad I had to paint sparrows yellow and call them canaries.
Of course, the good ole boys believed practically everything he said. One in particular.
Elvis: How we doing Colonel?
Colonel Parker: Can’t you hear them? In 29 years in show business I ain’t never seen nobody that can do what you do to an audience.
Next up: Ed Sullivan.
Elvis: Momma, I been meaning to ask you, do you think I am vulgar up on the stage like they’re all saying?
Gladys: Of course you’re not vulgar. You just got so much energy in your young body I sometimes think you got the energy of two.
Elvis: I just can’t help myself, Momma. I gotta jump around when I sing. But it ain’t vulgar. It’s just the way I feel.
Jesus, could he really have been that blind regarding what the hell was happening between him and his audience?
Parker: You’re not just another pop singer, son. You’ve sold almost 25 million records, you have 15 gold discs, you’ve made 4 movies, each one grossing more than the next. Boy, you are a phenomenon. You’re something son that comes along once in a lifetime…and no one is ever going to forget you.
Forget who?
Parker: So, you got nothing to worry about. I feel it is my patriotic duty to keep you in the 90% tax bracket.
Unless, of course, he turns out to be his own worst enemy.
Elvis [to movie director after the cast gets carried away with their antics]: The only reason we’re doing these stupid movies is because it’s supposed to be fun. Once they cease to be fun that’s when I cease to be doing them.
Fun from then on out. Except for the parts that were excruciating.
But it was still a truly amazing life. If only given the gap between how he started out and how he ended up. Everyone had a piece of him. Everyone wanted a piece of him. And that’s because having a piece of him was like having your own private ATM machine.
And Elvis Presley came along right on the cusp of a social, political and cultural revolution that generated all manner of profound [and profoundly problematic] changes. Historic changes. But so much of him was still deeply rooted in folks and family that were basically straight out of the 50s.
It opens with Elvis in Las Vegas. His big comeback on the stage. The night he allegedly pulled out a gun and shot up the television. And just 7 years before he is found dead. And then it goes all the way back to the beginning. It’s his birthday. He wanted a bike but mom and dad couldn’t afford it. They got him a guitar instead.
How accurate is it?
wiki: "According to several reports, Priscilla Presley was paid $50,000 to check the script for accuracy before shooting commenced."
Of course that can only include the part where she was with him. And it assumes she isn’t bending the truth to be more in alignment with her own narrative.
One thing seems certain though: the guy was obsessed with his hair. And oh how he loved his momma. And she was only 46 years old when she died. That in and of itself might explain so much of his life from then on.
It seems that once Elvis became a commodity [a huge cash cow] there were just too many folks hell bent on keeping him that way. And that meant pop. Pure pop. So there are two movies here. One immerses Elvis in the changes that were unfolding musically as “the fifties” become “the sixties”. And the other is when Elvis becomes Colonel Parker’s pigeon. And how he always remained a good ole boy in the Southern tradition of retarded development.
Elvis Presley’s father Vernon was played by Kurt Russell’s father, Bing Russell.
Kurt Russell’s then wife Season Hubley plays Elvis’s wife Priscilla Presley.
In an interview director John Carpenter said that they had to glue Kurt Russell’s ears back because they stuck too far out making him look less like Elvis. IMDb
Elvis
[Sam Phillips secretary: What kind of singer are you?
Elvis: All kinds.
Secretary: Who do you sound like?
Elvis: I don’t sound like nobody.
At the time, who could deny it?
Secretary: Well, did you hear it?
Sam: Hear what?
Secretary: The Negro sound. You said if you could find a white man with the Negro sound and feel, you could make yourself a million dollars.
Cue Colonel Parker.
Colonel Parker: You know boys there were times that were so bad I had to paint sparrows yellow and call them canaries.
Of course, the good ole boys believed practically everything he said. One in particular.
Elvis: How we doing Colonel?
Colonel Parker: Can’t you hear them? In 29 years in show business I ain’t never seen nobody that can do what you do to an audience.
Next up: Ed Sullivan.
Elvis: Momma, I been meaning to ask you, do you think I am vulgar up on the stage like they’re all saying?
Gladys: Of course you’re not vulgar. You just got so much energy in your young body I sometimes think you got the energy of two.
Elvis: I just can’t help myself, Momma. I gotta jump around when I sing. But it ain’t vulgar. It’s just the way I feel.
Jesus, could he really have been that blind regarding what the hell was happening between him and his audience?
Parker: You’re not just another pop singer, son. You’ve sold almost 25 million records, you have 15 gold discs, you’ve made 4 movies, each one grossing more than the next. Boy, you are a phenomenon. You’re something son that comes along once in a lifetime…and no one is ever going to forget you.
Forget who?
Parker: So, you got nothing to worry about. I feel it is my patriotic duty to keep you in the 90% tax bracket.
Unless, of course, he turns out to be his own worst enemy.
Elvis [to movie director after the cast gets carried away with their antics]: The only reason we’re doing these stupid movies is because it’s supposed to be fun. Once they cease to be fun that’s when I cease to be doing them.
Fun from then on out. Except for the parts that were excruciating.
- iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
For some there is classical music. And then everything else. For others though there is only classical music. Period.
Me, I was born and bred in the belly of the working class beast. Never once in all my formative years do I recall hearing classical music at all. Except occasionally on television or in the movies.
So, while I can’t imagine anyone who loves music more than I do, it only includes a smattering of classical. Thus, there are folks who will insist that I know nothing about music at all. Let alone about loving it.
Really, I have met men and women who did [for all practical purposes] think and feel like this. They harbored actual disdain for all the other genres. Even for “modern” classical composers like Philip Glass. Or for jazz. It just wasn’t “serious” music for them.
Perhaps along the lines of folks who make a distinction here between “pop” philosophy and, well, “serious” philosophy?
Here is a quartet that has been playing classical music together now for 25 years. Then out of the blue one of them is afflicted with Parkinson’s disease. And you don’t play the cello at this level with Parkinson’s. And sometimes just one big crack in something this cohesive precipitates others. Then it’s only a matter of whether it starts to break apart altogether. And not only “professionally”, but “personally” as well. Relationships themselves can begin to fracture. Then the cracks begin to feed on each other. Feed on and off of each other. The next thing you know you hardly recognize the new reality at all.
Besides, you might find yourself increasingly preoccupied with the ravages of growing old.
The scene between Christopher Walken and Catherine Keener at the Frick Collection is the first time the Frick allowed filming a scene at their gallery since its opening 75 years ago.
Peter Mitchell tells his class an anecdote about the two times he met cello legend Pau Casals; this anecdote is a true incident that happened to another legendary cellist, the late Gregor Piatigorsky. This anecdote is paraphrased from Piatigorsky’s autobiography, “Cellist”.
In the final scene, after Peter Mitchell excuses himself and Nina Lee takes his place, two issues are subtly shown being resolved. The first is by Daniel Lerner closing his notes, and thus submitting to the request to play Beethoven’s piece by memory, as requested by Robert Gelbart. The second, in response to the first, is by Robert Gelbart. He closes his notes as well, but is also seen touching the front page of the notes. The fact that he touches “Violin II” indicates his acceptance of that role moving forward. IMDb
A Late Quartet
Peter: “Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future, and time future contained in time past. If all time is eternally present, all time is unredeemable. Or say that the end precedes the beginning, and the end and the beginning were always there before the beginning and after the end. And all is always now.”
[to the class]
Peter: That’s T.S. Eliot, his take on Beethoven’s late quartets.
You tell me.
Peter [to the class]: Today, we think about what Eliot might have meant. We begin with Beethoven’s Opus 131, said to be his personal favorite. It has seven movements, at a time when the standard was four. And they’re all connected. You’re not allowed to stop between movements. No resting, no tuning. Beethoven insisted it be played attacca, without pause. Was he maybe trying to point out some cohesion, some unity between…the random acts of life? Or being deaf, alone, and sensing the end, he might have felt he had no time, to pause, to take a breath. For us, it means that playing for so long without pause, our instruments must in time go out of tune, each in its own quite different way. It’s a mess. What are we supposed to do, stop? Or, struggle, to continuously adjust to each other up to the end, even if we are out of tune? I don’t know. Let’s find out.
Fortunately, all I do is listen to the music that I love. Ultravox's "Vienna" is playing now. Fuck all the rest.
Daniel: The bow goes into the string and out. You have to feel the resistance, then the release afterwards.
Alexandra: That’s what I’m trying to do.
Daniel: Without intention.
Alexandra: What do you mean without intention?
Daniel: This fugue is a tremendous…it’s an emotional upheaval, and I don’t hear it. The color must be dark, always. Again. Vibrato. From the first note.
[she plays…he interupts]
Daniel: It’s a prayer, Alexandra.
Alexandra: Can you let me play one bar?
Daniel: I don’t think you’re ready for this piece. Why does Beethoven open with a slow fugue?
Alexandra: I don’t know.
Daniel: If you insist on tackling the 131 prematurely, at least read his biography first. Try to get into his mind. Did you know his father used to wake him up in the middle of the night to play for his drunken cronies? Imagine the mark that leaves on you.
Let's run this by...Alex?
Alexandra: How’s Mr. Perfection coping with the situation?
Robert: He’s helping Peter look for a new cellist.
Alexandra: Ooh. He has no heart.
Robert: Oh, he’s got plenty. He just reserves it for the violin.
Alexandra: Well, I don’t think I’m going to keep taking these classes with him.
Robert: Why not?
Alexandra: Because he sent me home after ten minutes in order to read Beethoven’s biography, so I could connect to his misery before I dare attempt the Opus 131.
Robert: He might have a point, though. Did Peter ever tell you about Schubert’s last musical request?
Alexandra: Yeah, how…how he only wanted to hear Beethoven’s Opus 131, and they played it for him, like, five days before he died.
Robert: Right. Here’s what I do. Before we play the piece, I imagine our quartet, surrounding Schubert on his deathbed, about to play for him the last music he’ll hear on earth.
Which immediately sets you to thinking: what is the last piece of music [classical or otherwise] that you would want to hear?
Instructor: I’m going to begin by talking about some general principles that involve Parkinson’s. One of them is that everything gets smaller. Our posture gets smaller, our stride gets smaller, our voice gets smaller, even our handwriting gets small. Everything contracts and closes in.
Praise the Lord?
Daniel [after Alexandra finishes playing]: Nice.
Alexandra: My father gave me a tip.
Daniel: Sounds like a good one.
Alexandra: It was a good one. You should take a tip from him yourself.
Daniel: Yeah? Like what?
Alexandra: He could teach you to be a little less…anal.
Ouch, but true.
Robert [during group interview]: …from the first note, it was…I got it. You know, I understood, this…the dynamic of a quartet and how special that was to be a part of a group. And that being a part of the group is about becoming one. And until that point, I don’t think I understood that. I thought I was the one, you know? But that was more special, to be a part.
[he looks over at Juliette]
Robert: And…and there was this incredibly beautiful woman across from me, playing the viola, like…like her life depended upon it. She was…breathtaking.
That was then though.
Robert: You remember, remember when we first started out, that every rehearsal was…discovery? We’d looked forward to going there. We’d argue just to argue over a hairpin. We’d jump down each other’s throats over a bow stroke. “I think it’s up.” “it’s down.” “I think it’s up.” “it’s down.” “I think it’s up.”
Juliette: I know, it was awful.
Robert: I miss that.
Ups and downs here?
Juliette [of Pilar]: She seems nice.
Robert: Yeah, she’s…she’s nice.
Juliette: You took this whole “alternating chairs” theme a little too far, though, don’t you think?
Robert: I’m sorry. I’m so sorry. It was a…It was a one-time thing. I…I just ended it. It’s done.
Juliette: Yeah? You reamed me yesterday. You were furious with me yesterday for talking to Daniel about securing the future…
Robert: I was really hurt by what you said yesterday.
Juliette:…the quartet’s future!
Robert: You said I wasn’t good enough!
Juliette: So this is how you decide to communicate this to me, by fucking another woman?!
Late fucks let's call them.
Daniel: As a soloist, you rehearse with an orchestra three, maybe four times, and perform the piece once or twice. And that’s it. Next city, next conductor, next orchestra. As a quartet, we celebrated 3,000 concerts together last season. It’s the only way to find meaningful interpretations. The greatest composers, when they wanted to express their most sincere thoughts, feelings…dig deep into their souls, always this form, always, always the quartet.
[
Kronos, for example.
Daniel: You’re a great violinist. I love playing with you, I truly do. But you can’t lead a quartet, man. You’re not sufficiently disciplined…
Robert: You think you’re better…
Daniel: …not motivated.
Robert: …than me.
Daniel: You just don’t have that in you, and it’s fine. It’s perfectly fine.
Robert: You think you’re better than me.
Daniel: When did I say that?
Robert: You’re wrong. You know, practicing obsessively doesn’t make your playing perfect. It actually sucks the life right out of it. It’s rigid and…and monotonous, and, and self-loving, and safe. The whole group is going down the path that you have us on. The way you play is the way the quartet plays, and it’s the same thing over and over and over and over! You’re not even willing to play Beethoven without your notes. Unleash your passion, man.
Daniel: Unleash my passion?
Robert: Unleash your passion! What are you afraid of? You have the three of us to cover your ass. Unleash your passion.
Daniel [sardonically]: Wow.
OIn the other hand, are these things that can be actually be known? Can they be calculated “objectively”?
Alexandra [to Juliette]: You treat dad like a doormat and he’s going to start to wonder what’s outside the door.
If you get her drift. And, eventually, you can't miss it.
Juliette: Why are you so angry with me? What did I do to cause you to talk to me in this way? I mean, did we just spoil you too much? Is that what it is?
Alexandra: Do you think I had fun? Do you think it was fun growing up with two roving quartet players as parents? Who were gone 7 months of the year and I was always taking a back seat to a violin and a viola? Always. Is that fun? Does that seem fun to you?
Juliette: You have always been our first priority.
Alexandra: That is bullshit! That’s bullshit, that’s just words. That’s nothing. If that were true, you would have cut back on the touring. You would have paid more attention to what was going on with me. Not always looking for a perfect goddamn fingering to a Haydn quartet.
As is often the case with things like this, it's just too close to call.
Juliette: This is a musician’s life. We rehearse and we practice and we perform. Unfortunately, that’s how it’s going to be for you, too, you’ll see.
Alexandra: No, I won’t. Because I would never raise a child that way.
Juliette [sniffling]: I’m sorry.
Alexandra: If I were you, if I had been you in that position I would’ve had an abortion.
Juliette: How can you be so cruel? I risked everything to have you. Do you understand? Do you have any idea what it feels like, do you?
Alexandra: Yeah. Yeah. I know…I know what it’s like TO GROW UP WITHOUT A FUCKING MOTHER!!
[Juliette slaps her face]
And here. How do you calculate these things “objectively”?
Peter: Casals emphasized the good stuff, the things he enjoyed...And for the rest, leave that to the morons, or whatever it is in Spanish, who judge by counting faults. “I can be grateful, and so must you be,” he said, “for even one singular phrase, one transcendent moment.”
I hear that. And, no, not just here.
Peter [to the quartet]: What is going on? Fill me in.
Daniel: We’ve got a concert on Thursday. I think it would be best if personal matters waited.
Robert: Oh, God, I think it would be best if you’d just shut the fuck up, you know?
Daniel: Can you control yourself, Robert?
Juliette: You control yourself, Daniel. You couldn’t find somebody else’s daughter to sleep with?
Robert: What? What? What did you do?
Boom: A fist flies.
Peter [to Juliette looking at a Rembrandt self-portrait]: Look at the gaze from the shadow, he’s strong. He’s a bit silly, in his gold dress and all, he knows that, but still, his body and mind have not betrayed him. Not yet. It’s inspiring. My own body and mind is a different story. The drugs I’m taking aren’t going to work for all that much longer. In time, they’ll make me anxious, I’ll begin to imagine things, and after that I’ll be dependent on other people to feed me, dress me, bathe me. These days I think about how to avoid that.
Let's not go there.
Me, I was born and bred in the belly of the working class beast. Never once in all my formative years do I recall hearing classical music at all. Except occasionally on television or in the movies.
So, while I can’t imagine anyone who loves music more than I do, it only includes a smattering of classical. Thus, there are folks who will insist that I know nothing about music at all. Let alone about loving it.
Really, I have met men and women who did [for all practical purposes] think and feel like this. They harbored actual disdain for all the other genres. Even for “modern” classical composers like Philip Glass. Or for jazz. It just wasn’t “serious” music for them.
Perhaps along the lines of folks who make a distinction here between “pop” philosophy and, well, “serious” philosophy?
Here is a quartet that has been playing classical music together now for 25 years. Then out of the blue one of them is afflicted with Parkinson’s disease. And you don’t play the cello at this level with Parkinson’s. And sometimes just one big crack in something this cohesive precipitates others. Then it’s only a matter of whether it starts to break apart altogether. And not only “professionally”, but “personally” as well. Relationships themselves can begin to fracture. Then the cracks begin to feed on each other. Feed on and off of each other. The next thing you know you hardly recognize the new reality at all.
Besides, you might find yourself increasingly preoccupied with the ravages of growing old.
The scene between Christopher Walken and Catherine Keener at the Frick Collection is the first time the Frick allowed filming a scene at their gallery since its opening 75 years ago.
Peter Mitchell tells his class an anecdote about the two times he met cello legend Pau Casals; this anecdote is a true incident that happened to another legendary cellist, the late Gregor Piatigorsky. This anecdote is paraphrased from Piatigorsky’s autobiography, “Cellist”.
In the final scene, after Peter Mitchell excuses himself and Nina Lee takes his place, two issues are subtly shown being resolved. The first is by Daniel Lerner closing his notes, and thus submitting to the request to play Beethoven’s piece by memory, as requested by Robert Gelbart. The second, in response to the first, is by Robert Gelbart. He closes his notes as well, but is also seen touching the front page of the notes. The fact that he touches “Violin II” indicates his acceptance of that role moving forward. IMDb
A Late Quartet
Peter: “Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future, and time future contained in time past. If all time is eternally present, all time is unredeemable. Or say that the end precedes the beginning, and the end and the beginning were always there before the beginning and after the end. And all is always now.”
[to the class]
Peter: That’s T.S. Eliot, his take on Beethoven’s late quartets.
You tell me.
Peter [to the class]: Today, we think about what Eliot might have meant. We begin with Beethoven’s Opus 131, said to be his personal favorite. It has seven movements, at a time when the standard was four. And they’re all connected. You’re not allowed to stop between movements. No resting, no tuning. Beethoven insisted it be played attacca, without pause. Was he maybe trying to point out some cohesion, some unity between…the random acts of life? Or being deaf, alone, and sensing the end, he might have felt he had no time, to pause, to take a breath. For us, it means that playing for so long without pause, our instruments must in time go out of tune, each in its own quite different way. It’s a mess. What are we supposed to do, stop? Or, struggle, to continuously adjust to each other up to the end, even if we are out of tune? I don’t know. Let’s find out.
Fortunately, all I do is listen to the music that I love. Ultravox's "Vienna" is playing now. Fuck all the rest.
Daniel: The bow goes into the string and out. You have to feel the resistance, then the release afterwards.
Alexandra: That’s what I’m trying to do.
Daniel: Without intention.
Alexandra: What do you mean without intention?
Daniel: This fugue is a tremendous…it’s an emotional upheaval, and I don’t hear it. The color must be dark, always. Again. Vibrato. From the first note.
[she plays…he interupts]
Daniel: It’s a prayer, Alexandra.
Alexandra: Can you let me play one bar?
Daniel: I don’t think you’re ready for this piece. Why does Beethoven open with a slow fugue?
Alexandra: I don’t know.
Daniel: If you insist on tackling the 131 prematurely, at least read his biography first. Try to get into his mind. Did you know his father used to wake him up in the middle of the night to play for his drunken cronies? Imagine the mark that leaves on you.
Let's run this by...Alex?
Alexandra: How’s Mr. Perfection coping with the situation?
Robert: He’s helping Peter look for a new cellist.
Alexandra: Ooh. He has no heart.
Robert: Oh, he’s got plenty. He just reserves it for the violin.
Alexandra: Well, I don’t think I’m going to keep taking these classes with him.
Robert: Why not?
Alexandra: Because he sent me home after ten minutes in order to read Beethoven’s biography, so I could connect to his misery before I dare attempt the Opus 131.
Robert: He might have a point, though. Did Peter ever tell you about Schubert’s last musical request?
Alexandra: Yeah, how…how he only wanted to hear Beethoven’s Opus 131, and they played it for him, like, five days before he died.
Robert: Right. Here’s what I do. Before we play the piece, I imagine our quartet, surrounding Schubert on his deathbed, about to play for him the last music he’ll hear on earth.
Which immediately sets you to thinking: what is the last piece of music [classical or otherwise] that you would want to hear?
Instructor: I’m going to begin by talking about some general principles that involve Parkinson’s. One of them is that everything gets smaller. Our posture gets smaller, our stride gets smaller, our voice gets smaller, even our handwriting gets small. Everything contracts and closes in.
Praise the Lord?
Daniel [after Alexandra finishes playing]: Nice.
Alexandra: My father gave me a tip.
Daniel: Sounds like a good one.
Alexandra: It was a good one. You should take a tip from him yourself.
Daniel: Yeah? Like what?
Alexandra: He could teach you to be a little less…anal.
Ouch, but true.
Robert [during group interview]: …from the first note, it was…I got it. You know, I understood, this…the dynamic of a quartet and how special that was to be a part of a group. And that being a part of the group is about becoming one. And until that point, I don’t think I understood that. I thought I was the one, you know? But that was more special, to be a part.
[he looks over at Juliette]
Robert: And…and there was this incredibly beautiful woman across from me, playing the viola, like…like her life depended upon it. She was…breathtaking.
That was then though.
Robert: You remember, remember when we first started out, that every rehearsal was…discovery? We’d looked forward to going there. We’d argue just to argue over a hairpin. We’d jump down each other’s throats over a bow stroke. “I think it’s up.” “it’s down.” “I think it’s up.” “it’s down.” “I think it’s up.”
Juliette: I know, it was awful.
Robert: I miss that.
Ups and downs here?
Juliette [of Pilar]: She seems nice.
Robert: Yeah, she’s…she’s nice.
Juliette: You took this whole “alternating chairs” theme a little too far, though, don’t you think?
Robert: I’m sorry. I’m so sorry. It was a…It was a one-time thing. I…I just ended it. It’s done.
Juliette: Yeah? You reamed me yesterday. You were furious with me yesterday for talking to Daniel about securing the future…
Robert: I was really hurt by what you said yesterday.
Juliette:…the quartet’s future!
Robert: You said I wasn’t good enough!
Juliette: So this is how you decide to communicate this to me, by fucking another woman?!
Late fucks let's call them.
Daniel: As a soloist, you rehearse with an orchestra three, maybe four times, and perform the piece once or twice. And that’s it. Next city, next conductor, next orchestra. As a quartet, we celebrated 3,000 concerts together last season. It’s the only way to find meaningful interpretations. The greatest composers, when they wanted to express their most sincere thoughts, feelings…dig deep into their souls, always this form, always, always the quartet.
[
Kronos, for example.
Daniel: You’re a great violinist. I love playing with you, I truly do. But you can’t lead a quartet, man. You’re not sufficiently disciplined…
Robert: You think you’re better…
Daniel: …not motivated.
Robert: …than me.
Daniel: You just don’t have that in you, and it’s fine. It’s perfectly fine.
Robert: You think you’re better than me.
Daniel: When did I say that?
Robert: You’re wrong. You know, practicing obsessively doesn’t make your playing perfect. It actually sucks the life right out of it. It’s rigid and…and monotonous, and, and self-loving, and safe. The whole group is going down the path that you have us on. The way you play is the way the quartet plays, and it’s the same thing over and over and over and over! You’re not even willing to play Beethoven without your notes. Unleash your passion, man.
Daniel: Unleash my passion?
Robert: Unleash your passion! What are you afraid of? You have the three of us to cover your ass. Unleash your passion.
Daniel [sardonically]: Wow.
OIn the other hand, are these things that can be actually be known? Can they be calculated “objectively”?
Alexandra [to Juliette]: You treat dad like a doormat and he’s going to start to wonder what’s outside the door.
If you get her drift. And, eventually, you can't miss it.
Juliette: Why are you so angry with me? What did I do to cause you to talk to me in this way? I mean, did we just spoil you too much? Is that what it is?
Alexandra: Do you think I had fun? Do you think it was fun growing up with two roving quartet players as parents? Who were gone 7 months of the year and I was always taking a back seat to a violin and a viola? Always. Is that fun? Does that seem fun to you?
Juliette: You have always been our first priority.
Alexandra: That is bullshit! That’s bullshit, that’s just words. That’s nothing. If that were true, you would have cut back on the touring. You would have paid more attention to what was going on with me. Not always looking for a perfect goddamn fingering to a Haydn quartet.
As is often the case with things like this, it's just too close to call.
Juliette: This is a musician’s life. We rehearse and we practice and we perform. Unfortunately, that’s how it’s going to be for you, too, you’ll see.
Alexandra: No, I won’t. Because I would never raise a child that way.
Juliette [sniffling]: I’m sorry.
Alexandra: If I were you, if I had been you in that position I would’ve had an abortion.
Juliette: How can you be so cruel? I risked everything to have you. Do you understand? Do you have any idea what it feels like, do you?
Alexandra: Yeah. Yeah. I know…I know what it’s like TO GROW UP WITHOUT A FUCKING MOTHER!!
[Juliette slaps her face]
And here. How do you calculate these things “objectively”?
Peter: Casals emphasized the good stuff, the things he enjoyed...And for the rest, leave that to the morons, or whatever it is in Spanish, who judge by counting faults. “I can be grateful, and so must you be,” he said, “for even one singular phrase, one transcendent moment.”
I hear that. And, no, not just here.
Peter [to the quartet]: What is going on? Fill me in.
Daniel: We’ve got a concert on Thursday. I think it would be best if personal matters waited.
Robert: Oh, God, I think it would be best if you’d just shut the fuck up, you know?
Daniel: Can you control yourself, Robert?
Juliette: You control yourself, Daniel. You couldn’t find somebody else’s daughter to sleep with?
Robert: What? What? What did you do?
Boom: A fist flies.
Peter [to Juliette looking at a Rembrandt self-portrait]: Look at the gaze from the shadow, he’s strong. He’s a bit silly, in his gold dress and all, he knows that, but still, his body and mind have not betrayed him. Not yet. It’s inspiring. My own body and mind is a different story. The drugs I’m taking aren’t going to work for all that much longer. In time, they’ll make me anxious, I’ll begin to imagine things, and after that I’ll be dependent on other people to feed me, dress me, bathe me. These days I think about how to avoid that.
Let's not go there.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Abyss
“I cannot bear that chirpy Bobby Kennedy, always building his beaver's nest with a few more facts. He needs to look into the abyss.” Norman Mailer
Instead, he fell into it.
“If we presume that the boundary of the universe is a kind of surrounding wall,
then we think like ancestors who thought there was an abyss at the edge of flat earth.” Toba Beta
Spacetime. Don't leave home without it.
“Every single moment I spent with you, I fell deeper. It felt like falling into an abyss, because I knew I could never find my way back. There would be nothing to life without you anymore.” Dolores Lane
Fuck that.
“Your mind is a hole that can be endlessly expanded into an abyss. The depth of your potential nothingness is truly astounding.” Jarod Kintz
If only for all of eternity.
“You know what they say. The living are only a species of the dead, aren’t they? And a very rare species at that. The cradle rocks over the abyss.” Adrian McKinty
You know, being optimistic.
“I am scared of snapping. That something, some random day, it will simply make ‘click’ in my mind and all of the sudden I will absolutely lose my mind. In other words having gazed into the abyss for too long. Go completely and totally insane! How does one descend into madness? What makes one click so all of the sudden life is upside down and people don’t know themselves anymore?” Ryan Gelpke
Click? Well, click, of course.
“I cannot bear that chirpy Bobby Kennedy, always building his beaver's nest with a few more facts. He needs to look into the abyss.” Norman Mailer
Instead, he fell into it.
“If we presume that the boundary of the universe is a kind of surrounding wall,
then we think like ancestors who thought there was an abyss at the edge of flat earth.” Toba Beta
Spacetime. Don't leave home without it.
“Every single moment I spent with you, I fell deeper. It felt like falling into an abyss, because I knew I could never find my way back. There would be nothing to life without you anymore.” Dolores Lane
Fuck that.
“Your mind is a hole that can be endlessly expanded into an abyss. The depth of your potential nothingness is truly astounding.” Jarod Kintz
If only for all of eternity.
“You know what they say. The living are only a species of the dead, aren’t they? And a very rare species at that. The cradle rocks over the abyss.” Adrian McKinty
You know, being optimistic.
“I am scared of snapping. That something, some random day, it will simply make ‘click’ in my mind and all of the sudden I will absolutely lose my mind. In other words having gazed into the abyss for too long. Go completely and totally insane! How does one descend into madness? What makes one click so all of the sudden life is upside down and people don’t know themselves anymore?” Ryan Gelpke
Click? Well, click, of course.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
A film that is allegedly based on “actual events”. But that becomes particularly problematic when the subject matter is overtly political. And few narratives are more overtly political than those that revolve around American foreign policy in the Middle East. And that is because here the contexts will always revolve in part around the “military industrial complex”. And there is always going to be at least some pressure in the “corporate media” and the “corporate film industry” not to cross a certain line. Still, that line changes depending on the political narrative of the film maker.
How closely is it based on “reality”?
Here is one analysis of it: https://slate.com/culture/2012/10/argo- ... movie.html
Go to Slate magazine online and you don’t exactly see it plastered with corporate advertising. But many of the writers at Slate get their source information directly from a corporate media where there is. So you’ve always got to sift what you read through that.
After all, here is a film bursting at the seams with irony. Consider:
"The script originally began by jumping directly into the protests outside the U.S. Embassy. However, Ben Affleck and Chris Terrio did not want the film to simply be a portrayal of irrationally crazy Middle Easterners; the opening credits/prologue, which details how the U.S. helped install the Shah in power and the Shah’s subsequent corruption and brutality, was created so as to make the anger after the Iranian Revolution understandable while not supporting the grossly illegal and immoral hostage-taking at the embassy."
Juxtaposed with:
"Ben Affleck has stated that the production was granted unprecedented access to the CIA’s actual headquarters, both for interiors and exteriors, and that the gratitude for that privilege belongs to Tony Mendez, the retired C.I.A. officer portrayed by Affleck in the film."
Ironic because it was through the CIA [and British intelligence] that the Shah was put into power and his brutal regime was trained. And then sustained. It was always about the oil. Just as it still is.
Now suddenly the CIA is the “hero” here. President Carter claimed the hostage situation “shocked the civilized world”. Okay, where then was the civilized world when the Shah loosed SAVAK agents on the people of Iran? Well, for one thing, “it” was training them.
Anyway, you can think of this film as you might Wag The Dog. Only the conflicts here are real. It also exposes how conflicts often only become real for some when they can be reduced down to actual flesh and blood folks. In the context of the Iranian Revolution what do six “ordinary embassy functionaries” matter? But give them a name and a face and a personality and a lot can change. Among other things, they come to stand in for all the faceless others. Just as the 50 who were captured did. They became “us” in the “us” versus “them” war on terror.
My own reaction here revolves more or less around the expression “I don’t have a dog in this fight”. I’m clearly opposed to the nature of American foreign policy – a policy which brought in the Shah which precipitated the Iranian Revolution. But I also detest the Islamic jihadists embodied in the Iranian regime itself. Then and now.
Look to learn some new words. Like “exfiltration”. Oh, and “Argo fuck yourself”.
According to Tony Mendez, the fake production office known as Studio Six was so convincing in the real-life Argo plan that even several weeks after it folded and the Iranian rescue was complete, "we had received twenty-six scripts. One was from Steven Spielberg. IMDb
Argo
Sahar [narration]: This is the Persian Empire known today as Iran. For 2,500 years, this land was ruled by a series of kings, known as shahs. In 1950, the people of Iran elected Mohammad Mossadeqh, a secular democrat, as Prime Minister. He nationalized British and U.S. petroleum holdings, returning Iran’s oil to it’s people. But in 1953, the U.S. and Great Britain engineered a coup d’etat that deposed Mossadeqh and installed Reza Pahlavi as shah. The young Shah was known for opulence and excess. His wife was rumored to bathe in milk while the shah had his lunches flown in by Concorde from Paris. The people starved. The shah kept power through his ruthless internal police; the SAVAK. An era of torture and fear began. He then began a campaign to westernize Iran, enraging a mostly traditional Shiite population. In 1979, the people of Iran overthrew the shah. The exiled cleric, Ayatollah Khomeini, returned to rule Iran. It descended into score-settling, death squads and chaos. Dying of cancer, the Shah as given asylum in the U.S. The Iranian people took to the streets outside the U.S. Embassy, demanding the shah be returned, tried and hanged.
The deep state let's call it.
Alan Golacinski [to the Marines]: Don’t fucking shoot anybody. You don’t wanna be the son of a bitch who started a war. They need an hour to burn the classified. I need you to hold. If you shoot one person, they’re gonna kill every single one of us in here.
And, perhaps, in a parallel universe every single one of them were killed.
[at the State Department]
Bates: These fucks hit us and we can’t hit them back?
Official: Mosaddegh, we did it to them first.
Bates: You think the Soviets would put up with this shit? They’d invade.
Official: What did you expect? We helped a guy torture and de-ball an entire population.
Oh yeah, that part again.
Tony: What about the White House?
Jack: Carter’s shitting bricks so high he can build the pyramids himself.
The fix was in.
Robert Pender [at the briefing]: We have intelligence that they can ride bicycles. Or we’re prepared to send in somebody to teach them.
Tony: Or you could send in training wheels and meet them at the border with Gatorade. It’s 300 miles to the Turkish border. They’d need a support team following them with a tire pump.
The fog of, well, whatever you want to call this "mission",
Tony to Pender]: Sir, exfils are like abortions. You don’t wanna need one. But when you do, you don’t do it yourself.
Any exfils here ever do it themselves?
Jack [to Tony]: The whole country is watching you, they just don’t know it.
They still don't. Not that the "whole country" ever will.
Lester: Okay, you got 6 people hiding out in a town of what, 4 million people, all of whom chant “death to America” all the livelong day. You want to set up a movie in a week. You want to lie to Hollywood, a town where everybody lies for a living. Then you’re gonna sneak 007 over here into a country that wants CIA blood on their breakfast cereal, and you’re gonna walk the Brady Bunch out of the most watched city in the world.
Tony: Past about a hundred militia at the airport. That’s right.
Lester: Right. Look, I gotta tell you. We did suicide missions in the army that had better odds than this.
I would never doubt that. Though I doubt I can explain it.
Jack: Brace yourself; it’s like talking to those two old fucks on “The Muppets”.
These guys: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=3 ... 1&dpr=0.99
Lester: If I’m doing a fake movie, it’s going to be a fake hit.
Aren't they all?
Tony: “Argo: A science-fantasy adventure.”
Lester: It’s a turnaround. It’s dog-shit.
Tony: It’s a space movie set in the Middle East. Does it matter?
John: Can we get the option?
Tony: Why do we need the option?
Lester: You’re worried about the Ayatollah? Try the WGA.
If you get his drift. And, at first, I missed it completely.
Cyrus Vance: What’s wrong with bikes, again?
Jack: We tried to get the message upstairs, sir.
Stansfield Turner: You think this is more plausible than teachers?
Jack: Yes, we do. One, there are no more foreign teachers in Iran.
Tony: And we think everybody knows Hollywood people. And everybody knows they’d shoot in Stalingrad with Pol Pot directing if it would sell tickets.
Capitalism let's call it.
Tony [proposing the Argo idea to the DCI]: There are only bad options. It’s about finding the best one.
Stansfield Turner: You don’t have a better bad idea than this?
Jack: This is the best bad idea we have, sir. By far.
And that's saying something. At least I think it is.
Tony [to the six in hiding]: Hi. My name is Kevin Harkins…and I’m gonna get you home.
[then]
Tony: Here are the screenplays for your cover identities.
Joe [scoffing]: It’s theatre of the absurd.
Or as close to it as most of us will ever get.
Tony [after learning of Carter’s decision to send in Delta Force]: Fuck! Goddamn it! I never would have exposed them if I wasn’t authorized to get them out!
Jack [on phone]: It’s over Tony.
Tony: If they stay here, they will be taken. Probably not alive.
Jack: Listen to me. The thinking has changed. Six Americans get pulled out of a Canadian diplomat’s house and executed…it’s a world outrage. Six Americans get caught playing movie make-believe with the CIA at the airport and executed? It’s a national embarrassment. They are calling the operation.
Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq. Embarrassment and then some.
Swissair Flight Attendant [after bell dings]: Ladies and gentlemen, it is our pleasure to announce that alcoholic beverages are now available as we have cleared Iranian airspace.
Just don't light up.
Lester: We made history today. “History starts out as farce and ends up as tragedy.”
John: Quote is the other way around.
Lester: Yeah? Who said it?
John: Marx.
Lester: Groucho said that?
You bet your life he didn't..
Lamont: Call the Times, nail it to the goddamn door. CIA are the good guys.
Rossi: The Canadians are the good guys.
Lamont: Yeah, we’re not greedy. Them, too.
Rossi: Only. Canada takes the credit, or they retaliate against the hostages. Great Satan wasn’t involved. No CIA.
Lamont: Is that right, Jack?
Jack: Involved in what? We were as surprised as anybody. Thank you, Canada.
Have we bought Canada yet?
Jack: Carter said you were a great American.
Tony: A great American what?
Jack: He didn’t say.
That's one way to cover all bases.
How closely is it based on “reality”?
Here is one analysis of it: https://slate.com/culture/2012/10/argo- ... movie.html
Go to Slate magazine online and you don’t exactly see it plastered with corporate advertising. But many of the writers at Slate get their source information directly from a corporate media where there is. So you’ve always got to sift what you read through that.
After all, here is a film bursting at the seams with irony. Consider:
"The script originally began by jumping directly into the protests outside the U.S. Embassy. However, Ben Affleck and Chris Terrio did not want the film to simply be a portrayal of irrationally crazy Middle Easterners; the opening credits/prologue, which details how the U.S. helped install the Shah in power and the Shah’s subsequent corruption and brutality, was created so as to make the anger after the Iranian Revolution understandable while not supporting the grossly illegal and immoral hostage-taking at the embassy."
Juxtaposed with:
"Ben Affleck has stated that the production was granted unprecedented access to the CIA’s actual headquarters, both for interiors and exteriors, and that the gratitude for that privilege belongs to Tony Mendez, the retired C.I.A. officer portrayed by Affleck in the film."
Ironic because it was through the CIA [and British intelligence] that the Shah was put into power and his brutal regime was trained. And then sustained. It was always about the oil. Just as it still is.
Now suddenly the CIA is the “hero” here. President Carter claimed the hostage situation “shocked the civilized world”. Okay, where then was the civilized world when the Shah loosed SAVAK agents on the people of Iran? Well, for one thing, “it” was training them.
Anyway, you can think of this film as you might Wag The Dog. Only the conflicts here are real. It also exposes how conflicts often only become real for some when they can be reduced down to actual flesh and blood folks. In the context of the Iranian Revolution what do six “ordinary embassy functionaries” matter? But give them a name and a face and a personality and a lot can change. Among other things, they come to stand in for all the faceless others. Just as the 50 who were captured did. They became “us” in the “us” versus “them” war on terror.
My own reaction here revolves more or less around the expression “I don’t have a dog in this fight”. I’m clearly opposed to the nature of American foreign policy – a policy which brought in the Shah which precipitated the Iranian Revolution. But I also detest the Islamic jihadists embodied in the Iranian regime itself. Then and now.
Look to learn some new words. Like “exfiltration”. Oh, and “Argo fuck yourself”.
According to Tony Mendez, the fake production office known as Studio Six was so convincing in the real-life Argo plan that even several weeks after it folded and the Iranian rescue was complete, "we had received twenty-six scripts. One was from Steven Spielberg. IMDb
Argo
Sahar [narration]: This is the Persian Empire known today as Iran. For 2,500 years, this land was ruled by a series of kings, known as shahs. In 1950, the people of Iran elected Mohammad Mossadeqh, a secular democrat, as Prime Minister. He nationalized British and U.S. petroleum holdings, returning Iran’s oil to it’s people. But in 1953, the U.S. and Great Britain engineered a coup d’etat that deposed Mossadeqh and installed Reza Pahlavi as shah. The young Shah was known for opulence and excess. His wife was rumored to bathe in milk while the shah had his lunches flown in by Concorde from Paris. The people starved. The shah kept power through his ruthless internal police; the SAVAK. An era of torture and fear began. He then began a campaign to westernize Iran, enraging a mostly traditional Shiite population. In 1979, the people of Iran overthrew the shah. The exiled cleric, Ayatollah Khomeini, returned to rule Iran. It descended into score-settling, death squads and chaos. Dying of cancer, the Shah as given asylum in the U.S. The Iranian people took to the streets outside the U.S. Embassy, demanding the shah be returned, tried and hanged.
The deep state let's call it.
Alan Golacinski [to the Marines]: Don’t fucking shoot anybody. You don’t wanna be the son of a bitch who started a war. They need an hour to burn the classified. I need you to hold. If you shoot one person, they’re gonna kill every single one of us in here.
And, perhaps, in a parallel universe every single one of them were killed.
[at the State Department]
Bates: These fucks hit us and we can’t hit them back?
Official: Mosaddegh, we did it to them first.
Bates: You think the Soviets would put up with this shit? They’d invade.
Official: What did you expect? We helped a guy torture and de-ball an entire population.
Oh yeah, that part again.
Tony: What about the White House?
Jack: Carter’s shitting bricks so high he can build the pyramids himself.
The fix was in.
Robert Pender [at the briefing]: We have intelligence that they can ride bicycles. Or we’re prepared to send in somebody to teach them.
Tony: Or you could send in training wheels and meet them at the border with Gatorade. It’s 300 miles to the Turkish border. They’d need a support team following them with a tire pump.
The fog of, well, whatever you want to call this "mission",
Tony to Pender]: Sir, exfils are like abortions. You don’t wanna need one. But when you do, you don’t do it yourself.
Any exfils here ever do it themselves?
Jack [to Tony]: The whole country is watching you, they just don’t know it.
They still don't. Not that the "whole country" ever will.
Lester: Okay, you got 6 people hiding out in a town of what, 4 million people, all of whom chant “death to America” all the livelong day. You want to set up a movie in a week. You want to lie to Hollywood, a town where everybody lies for a living. Then you’re gonna sneak 007 over here into a country that wants CIA blood on their breakfast cereal, and you’re gonna walk the Brady Bunch out of the most watched city in the world.
Tony: Past about a hundred militia at the airport. That’s right.
Lester: Right. Look, I gotta tell you. We did suicide missions in the army that had better odds than this.
I would never doubt that. Though I doubt I can explain it.
Jack: Brace yourself; it’s like talking to those two old fucks on “The Muppets”.
These guys: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=3 ... 1&dpr=0.99
Lester: If I’m doing a fake movie, it’s going to be a fake hit.
Aren't they all?
Tony: “Argo: A science-fantasy adventure.”
Lester: It’s a turnaround. It’s dog-shit.
Tony: It’s a space movie set in the Middle East. Does it matter?
John: Can we get the option?
Tony: Why do we need the option?
Lester: You’re worried about the Ayatollah? Try the WGA.
If you get his drift. And, at first, I missed it completely.
Cyrus Vance: What’s wrong with bikes, again?
Jack: We tried to get the message upstairs, sir.
Stansfield Turner: You think this is more plausible than teachers?
Jack: Yes, we do. One, there are no more foreign teachers in Iran.
Tony: And we think everybody knows Hollywood people. And everybody knows they’d shoot in Stalingrad with Pol Pot directing if it would sell tickets.
Capitalism let's call it.
Tony [proposing the Argo idea to the DCI]: There are only bad options. It’s about finding the best one.
Stansfield Turner: You don’t have a better bad idea than this?
Jack: This is the best bad idea we have, sir. By far.
And that's saying something. At least I think it is.
Tony [to the six in hiding]: Hi. My name is Kevin Harkins…and I’m gonna get you home.
[then]
Tony: Here are the screenplays for your cover identities.
Joe [scoffing]: It’s theatre of the absurd.
Or as close to it as most of us will ever get.
Tony [after learning of Carter’s decision to send in Delta Force]: Fuck! Goddamn it! I never would have exposed them if I wasn’t authorized to get them out!
Jack [on phone]: It’s over Tony.
Tony: If they stay here, they will be taken. Probably not alive.
Jack: Listen to me. The thinking has changed. Six Americans get pulled out of a Canadian diplomat’s house and executed…it’s a world outrage. Six Americans get caught playing movie make-believe with the CIA at the airport and executed? It’s a national embarrassment. They are calling the operation.
Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq. Embarrassment and then some.
Swissair Flight Attendant [after bell dings]: Ladies and gentlemen, it is our pleasure to announce that alcoholic beverages are now available as we have cleared Iranian airspace.
Just don't light up.
Lester: We made history today. “History starts out as farce and ends up as tragedy.”
John: Quote is the other way around.
Lester: Yeah? Who said it?
John: Marx.
Lester: Groucho said that?
You bet your life he didn't..
Lamont: Call the Times, nail it to the goddamn door. CIA are the good guys.
Rossi: The Canadians are the good guys.
Lamont: Yeah, we’re not greedy. Them, too.
Rossi: Only. Canada takes the credit, or they retaliate against the hostages. Great Satan wasn’t involved. No CIA.
Lamont: Is that right, Jack?
Jack: Involved in what? We were as surprised as anybody. Thank you, Canada.
Have we bought Canada yet?
Jack: Carter said you were a great American.
Tony: A great American what?
Jack: He didn’t say.
That's one way to cover all bases.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Absurdity
“...the true absurdness of the world is in its pretense that so much of life is not ridiculous.” Zito Madu
Well, it might be true.
“It is not absurd that someone would become a bird under great stress. What is absurd is that so many people do not.” Zito Madu
Just out of curiosity, which bird would you be?
“Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity where some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, while other people are not held responsible for what they themselves are doing today?” Thomas Sowell
Some things never change.
“There's so much wickedness in the world," she said. "So what can you expect?” Albert Camus
Virtually too, right?
"It shocks me, this disproportion between my insignificance and the vastness of the cosmos. I often think there must be something all the same, something in the middle between my triviality and the universe!” Kamel Daoud
New thread?
“Nothing is too absurd for some philosopher to have said it.” Cicero
The Ponderers Guild!
“...the true absurdness of the world is in its pretense that so much of life is not ridiculous.” Zito Madu
Well, it might be true.
“It is not absurd that someone would become a bird under great stress. What is absurd is that so many people do not.” Zito Madu
Just out of curiosity, which bird would you be?
“Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity where some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, while other people are not held responsible for what they themselves are doing today?” Thomas Sowell
Some things never change.
“There's so much wickedness in the world," she said. "So what can you expect?” Albert Camus
Virtually too, right?
"It shocks me, this disproportion between my insignificance and the vastness of the cosmos. I often think there must be something all the same, something in the middle between my triviality and the universe!” Kamel Daoud
New thread?
“Nothing is too absurd for some philosopher to have said it.” Cicero
The Ponderers Guild!
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Who among us does not become angry [or even very angry] at the way some things are out in the world? And who among us does not want to change the way some things are out in the world? But: How to go about that?
In other words, just as different folks want different things changed, different folks will also go about trying to change them in different ways.
The most common distinction here, of course, is between “working within the system” and, well, tearing the system down. Only, if you are basically anarchists, that does not mean replacing it with yet another system still.
Why one approach and not another? In my estimation, that will always revolve around dasein. For whatever personal [existential] reason something about “the way things are” has become especially outrageous to you. And you see clearly that the system is so corrupt that working within it will never effectuate any real change. So you rationalize more “extreme” solutions instead.
And few are more extreme than those outraged by what “the corporations” do to our environment. And how in the process so many innocent animals are “murdered”. And sometimes people too. These folks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-terrorism
Would that the “real thing” could ever be this sophisticated though. Well, if you support that sort of thing.
Sarah is employed by a corporation that is hired by other corporations to neutralize The East. And that means she has to infiltrate the group. The East is like Earth First on steroids.
The focus in films like this is almost always on either being a “thriller” or in actually exploring the politics of the group. And Sarah will either infiltrate the group only to become one of them or to bring them down. Or a combination thereof.
So your reaction to the film will revolve in large part around your own political narrative vis a vis this particular issue. And around these particular tactics. Then it all becomes about the relationship between ends and means. If what particular corporations are able to get away with enrages you [and if you have a personal story to tell] the sky can be the limit.
In the end though the lesson to be learned is loud and clear: You can reach people “through the system”; you can tell them “the truth”; and things will then change.
Sure, up to a point. But beyond that I may well be the most cynical soul you will ever come across.
Marling and Batmanglij, who co-wrote the screenplay, based it on their experiences in the summer of 2009 practicing freeganism and joining an anarchist collective. IMDb
The East
Izzy [voiceover]: We are The East, we don’t care how rich you are. We want all those who are guilty to experience the terror of their crime. It’s easy when it’s not your life, easy when it’s not your home. But when it’s your fault, it shouldn’t be so easy to sleep at night. Especially when we know where you live. Barry Redmond, CEO of Lorex Oil. 2641 River Rock Road, East Hampton. You dumped fifteen million barrels of crude into the Atlantic. We don’t care how rich you are. We want all those who are guilty to experience the terror of their crimes. Because it shouldn’t be so easy to get away with murder. Lie to us, we’ll lie to you. Spy on us, we’ll spy on you. Poison us, we’ll poison you. We will counterattack three corporations in the next six months for their worldwide terrorism. We are The East. And this is just the beginning.
Still too close to call for some of us.
Sharon: Hiller Brood is the top private intelligence firm in the world. Anti-corporate terrorism is all about risk. Our job is to assess that risk for you. Are you dealing with a fly? It’s harmless, easily swatted. Or is it a mosquito? Can it draw blood? Or… is the threat the black widow? Sending you to the hospital, crashing your stock. Let’s say it’s a fly. You deal with it internally. Mosquito, our operative handles it…neutralizing the threat. Now…if it’s the black widow…we’ll have to see.
What the script calls for, say.
Benji: Come get something to eat before you go.
Sarah: So you can keep making an example of me to your followers?
Benji: I have no followers.
Sarah: Well, I think you all made your point.
Benji: Really? What do you think we figured out?
Sarah: That I’m selfish.
Benji: Maybe that’s what you figured out.
Sarah: Why does self-righteousness always go hand-in-hand…with resistance movements?
Now that takes me back. Only now there is no going forward.
Luca [to Izzy regarding Sarah]: Since when do we turn away outlaws?
Let's just say these things can get complicated.
Benji [to Sarah]: Every day our society abuses the environment. What’s the easiest way to handle that pain?
Luca: Never talk about it.
Benji: Yep. To bury the horror, pretend it isn’t real. If it’s real, you have to do something. Like this deer. Someone hurt her. Someone you trusted, because you trusted the system, trusted the government, trusted the church.
That’s how these things are all tied together by and large.
Benji [to Sarah]: You only have one job on this jam. Keep your mark engaged in you and not us. Okay?
Izzy: He’s a sex addict, so you have that in your favor.
Thank God?
Izzy [narrating a youtube video]: Last night, we gave pharmaceutical giant McCabe-Grey a taste of their best-selling poison, Denoxin. We encourage the media to follow the company’s members. We will counterattack two more corporations for their injustice. We will not show mercy.
Of course, that works both ways.
Sharon: Getting attached to them is all right. It’s human. We know it happens. It’s the first thing we cover in training. If you spent every day with a pack of White supremacists…you’d develop feelings for them, too. But do not get soft.
The Stockholm Syndrome let's call it. Unless that's already taken.
Benji: Okay, do we agree on the plan? An eye for an eye. Can’t be more. Can’t be less.
Thumbs: So, technically, we could kill them and be morally clear.
Izzy: That’s not funny. How we perform a jam is as important as its outcome.
Thumbs: What outcome? Nobody cares about that freaky Paige Williams anymore.
Izzy: The McCabe-Grey jam worked like gangbusters.
Doc: True, but it’s blown over now.
Thumbs: People don’t respond to your intellectual bullshit. They respond to firepower. It’s like 9/11. That’s why I was in Iraq. You got to get people mad.
Benji: Sarah…what do you think?
Sarah: I think hurting people isn’t going to bring that little boy back. Paige is going to have seizures like Doc.
Doc: We saved tens of thousands of people from that fate.
Sarah: But if we hurt people, aren’t we just as bad as they are?
Again: ends beget means that can sometimes get out of control.
Izzy: Almost time to get in.
CEO: I don’t understand.
Izzy: It’s pretty simple, really. You make your living by poisoning this creek and other rivers and lakes. You separate yourselves in gated communities with golf courses from the world you’re destroying. From the families who cannot afford to move away from this creek. Or from the cancer their children are dying of. You create for a living toxic chemicals that will outlive us all and feel nothing. But tonight, you will feel something. Strip.
Right on! Right?
CEO: I didn’t know!
Izzy: You did! You did know! It’s just easier to pretend you didn’t! Get in the water!
CEO [to the camera]: All right, okay, yes! Yes, we treat the coal! We treat the coal because it burns more efficiently! Yes, we do! And we dump the slurry in the river because it has to go someplace! People need power for their homes!
So, what part of this isn’t a reflection of the real world we live in? So, what are you willing to do about it?
Benji: Izzy always said she wasn’t scared. She was scared shitless. But she didn’t flee. That’s what made her braver than me.
To flee or not to flee. You first.
Benji: Where are you going to go? What did you expect, that it would be easy? That it would be painless? A revolution is never easy. But that doesn’t make it any less important. You can’t just walk away from it.
Luca: Yes, I can! I would trade the revolution for Izzy any day.
Benji: That’s it?
Luca: That’s the difference between you and me.
Now that takes me back. Quite a few times.
Sarah/Jane: I can’t go.
Benji: Can’t or won’t?
Sarah: I won’t.
Benji: Jane. Come with me.
Sarah: We don’t have that list. But if we did…I think that you and I would want to do different things with it.
Like night and day.
Sarah [to herself with the list]: Please give me the strength to do well. To not be arrogant. But to not be weak.
The NOC list. Another one I'm guessing.
In other words, just as different folks want different things changed, different folks will also go about trying to change them in different ways.
The most common distinction here, of course, is between “working within the system” and, well, tearing the system down. Only, if you are basically anarchists, that does not mean replacing it with yet another system still.
Why one approach and not another? In my estimation, that will always revolve around dasein. For whatever personal [existential] reason something about “the way things are” has become especially outrageous to you. And you see clearly that the system is so corrupt that working within it will never effectuate any real change. So you rationalize more “extreme” solutions instead.
And few are more extreme than those outraged by what “the corporations” do to our environment. And how in the process so many innocent animals are “murdered”. And sometimes people too. These folks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-terrorism
Would that the “real thing” could ever be this sophisticated though. Well, if you support that sort of thing.
Sarah is employed by a corporation that is hired by other corporations to neutralize The East. And that means she has to infiltrate the group. The East is like Earth First on steroids.
The focus in films like this is almost always on either being a “thriller” or in actually exploring the politics of the group. And Sarah will either infiltrate the group only to become one of them or to bring them down. Or a combination thereof.
So your reaction to the film will revolve in large part around your own political narrative vis a vis this particular issue. And around these particular tactics. Then it all becomes about the relationship between ends and means. If what particular corporations are able to get away with enrages you [and if you have a personal story to tell] the sky can be the limit.
In the end though the lesson to be learned is loud and clear: You can reach people “through the system”; you can tell them “the truth”; and things will then change.
Sure, up to a point. But beyond that I may well be the most cynical soul you will ever come across.
Marling and Batmanglij, who co-wrote the screenplay, based it on their experiences in the summer of 2009 practicing freeganism and joining an anarchist collective. IMDb
The East
Izzy [voiceover]: We are The East, we don’t care how rich you are. We want all those who are guilty to experience the terror of their crime. It’s easy when it’s not your life, easy when it’s not your home. But when it’s your fault, it shouldn’t be so easy to sleep at night. Especially when we know where you live. Barry Redmond, CEO of Lorex Oil. 2641 River Rock Road, East Hampton. You dumped fifteen million barrels of crude into the Atlantic. We don’t care how rich you are. We want all those who are guilty to experience the terror of their crimes. Because it shouldn’t be so easy to get away with murder. Lie to us, we’ll lie to you. Spy on us, we’ll spy on you. Poison us, we’ll poison you. We will counterattack three corporations in the next six months for their worldwide terrorism. We are The East. And this is just the beginning.
Still too close to call for some of us.
Sharon: Hiller Brood is the top private intelligence firm in the world. Anti-corporate terrorism is all about risk. Our job is to assess that risk for you. Are you dealing with a fly? It’s harmless, easily swatted. Or is it a mosquito? Can it draw blood? Or… is the threat the black widow? Sending you to the hospital, crashing your stock. Let’s say it’s a fly. You deal with it internally. Mosquito, our operative handles it…neutralizing the threat. Now…if it’s the black widow…we’ll have to see.
What the script calls for, say.
Benji: Come get something to eat before you go.
Sarah: So you can keep making an example of me to your followers?
Benji: I have no followers.
Sarah: Well, I think you all made your point.
Benji: Really? What do you think we figured out?
Sarah: That I’m selfish.
Benji: Maybe that’s what you figured out.
Sarah: Why does self-righteousness always go hand-in-hand…with resistance movements?
Now that takes me back. Only now there is no going forward.
Luca [to Izzy regarding Sarah]: Since when do we turn away outlaws?
Let's just say these things can get complicated.
Benji [to Sarah]: Every day our society abuses the environment. What’s the easiest way to handle that pain?
Luca: Never talk about it.
Benji: Yep. To bury the horror, pretend it isn’t real. If it’s real, you have to do something. Like this deer. Someone hurt her. Someone you trusted, because you trusted the system, trusted the government, trusted the church.
That’s how these things are all tied together by and large.
Benji [to Sarah]: You only have one job on this jam. Keep your mark engaged in you and not us. Okay?
Izzy: He’s a sex addict, so you have that in your favor.
Thank God?
Izzy [narrating a youtube video]: Last night, we gave pharmaceutical giant McCabe-Grey a taste of their best-selling poison, Denoxin. We encourage the media to follow the company’s members. We will counterattack two more corporations for their injustice. We will not show mercy.
Of course, that works both ways.
Sharon: Getting attached to them is all right. It’s human. We know it happens. It’s the first thing we cover in training. If you spent every day with a pack of White supremacists…you’d develop feelings for them, too. But do not get soft.
The Stockholm Syndrome let's call it. Unless that's already taken.
Benji: Okay, do we agree on the plan? An eye for an eye. Can’t be more. Can’t be less.
Thumbs: So, technically, we could kill them and be morally clear.
Izzy: That’s not funny. How we perform a jam is as important as its outcome.
Thumbs: What outcome? Nobody cares about that freaky Paige Williams anymore.
Izzy: The McCabe-Grey jam worked like gangbusters.
Doc: True, but it’s blown over now.
Thumbs: People don’t respond to your intellectual bullshit. They respond to firepower. It’s like 9/11. That’s why I was in Iraq. You got to get people mad.
Benji: Sarah…what do you think?
Sarah: I think hurting people isn’t going to bring that little boy back. Paige is going to have seizures like Doc.
Doc: We saved tens of thousands of people from that fate.
Sarah: But if we hurt people, aren’t we just as bad as they are?
Again: ends beget means that can sometimes get out of control.
Izzy: Almost time to get in.
CEO: I don’t understand.
Izzy: It’s pretty simple, really. You make your living by poisoning this creek and other rivers and lakes. You separate yourselves in gated communities with golf courses from the world you’re destroying. From the families who cannot afford to move away from this creek. Or from the cancer their children are dying of. You create for a living toxic chemicals that will outlive us all and feel nothing. But tonight, you will feel something. Strip.
Right on! Right?
CEO: I didn’t know!
Izzy: You did! You did know! It’s just easier to pretend you didn’t! Get in the water!
CEO [to the camera]: All right, okay, yes! Yes, we treat the coal! We treat the coal because it burns more efficiently! Yes, we do! And we dump the slurry in the river because it has to go someplace! People need power for their homes!
So, what part of this isn’t a reflection of the real world we live in? So, what are you willing to do about it?
Benji: Izzy always said she wasn’t scared. She was scared shitless. But she didn’t flee. That’s what made her braver than me.
To flee or not to flee. You first.
Benji: Where are you going to go? What did you expect, that it would be easy? That it would be painless? A revolution is never easy. But that doesn’t make it any less important. You can’t just walk away from it.
Luca: Yes, I can! I would trade the revolution for Izzy any day.
Benji: That’s it?
Luca: That’s the difference between you and me.
Now that takes me back. Quite a few times.
Sarah/Jane: I can’t go.
Benji: Can’t or won’t?
Sarah: I won’t.
Benji: Jane. Come with me.
Sarah: We don’t have that list. But if we did…I think that you and I would want to do different things with it.
Like night and day.
Sarah [to herself with the list]: Please give me the strength to do well. To not be arrogant. But to not be weak.
The NOC list. Another one I'm guessing.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Bullshit
“I've been accused of vulgarity. I say that's bullshit.” Mel Brooks
Yeah, I can go along with that.
“The contemporary proliferation of bullshit also has deeper sources, in various forms of skepticism which deny that we can have any reliable access to an objective reality and which therefore reject the possibility of knowing how things truly are." Harry Frankfurt
Go ahead, run that by me again. Only this time with a context.
“Apparently people don't like the truth, but I do like it; I like it because it upsets a lot of people. If you show them enough times that their arguments are bullshit, then maybe just once, one of them will say, 'Oh! Wait a minute - I was wrong.' I live for that happening. Rare, I assure you.” Lemmy Kilmister
If it has ever happened at all.
“When the sky’s falling, I take shelter under bullshit.” Scott Lynch
Or the virtual bullshit here.
“The trick to this solution is that you’d have to be 100% honest. Meaning not just sincere but almost naked. Worse than naked - more like unarmed. Defenseless. ‘This thing I feel, I can’t name it straight out but it seems important, do you feel it too?’ - this sort of direct question is not for the squeamish. For one thing, it’s perilously close to “Do you like me? Please like me,” which you know quite well that 99% of all interhuman manipulation and bullshit gamesmanship that goes on goes on precisely because the idea of saying this sort of thing straight out is regarded as somehow obsence. In fact one of the very last few interpersonal taboos we have is kind of obscenely naked direct interrogation of somebody else. It looks pathetic and desperate. That’s how it’ll look to the reader. And it will have to. There’s no way around it.” David Foster Wallace
Alas, he's still dead, isn't he?
“I think all of us are looking for that which does not admit of bullshit . . . If you tell me you can bench press 450, hell, we'll load up the bar and put you under it. Either you can do it or you can't do it—you can't bullshit. Ultimately, sports are just about as close to what one would call the truth as it is possible to get in this world.” Harry Crews
The either/or world, let's call it.
“I've been accused of vulgarity. I say that's bullshit.” Mel Brooks
Yeah, I can go along with that.
“The contemporary proliferation of bullshit also has deeper sources, in various forms of skepticism which deny that we can have any reliable access to an objective reality and which therefore reject the possibility of knowing how things truly are." Harry Frankfurt
Go ahead, run that by me again. Only this time with a context.
“Apparently people don't like the truth, but I do like it; I like it because it upsets a lot of people. If you show them enough times that their arguments are bullshit, then maybe just once, one of them will say, 'Oh! Wait a minute - I was wrong.' I live for that happening. Rare, I assure you.” Lemmy Kilmister
If it has ever happened at all.
“When the sky’s falling, I take shelter under bullshit.” Scott Lynch
Or the virtual bullshit here.
“The trick to this solution is that you’d have to be 100% honest. Meaning not just sincere but almost naked. Worse than naked - more like unarmed. Defenseless. ‘This thing I feel, I can’t name it straight out but it seems important, do you feel it too?’ - this sort of direct question is not for the squeamish. For one thing, it’s perilously close to “Do you like me? Please like me,” which you know quite well that 99% of all interhuman manipulation and bullshit gamesmanship that goes on goes on precisely because the idea of saying this sort of thing straight out is regarded as somehow obsence. In fact one of the very last few interpersonal taboos we have is kind of obscenely naked direct interrogation of somebody else. It looks pathetic and desperate. That’s how it’ll look to the reader. And it will have to. There’s no way around it.” David Foster Wallace
Alas, he's still dead, isn't he?
“I think all of us are looking for that which does not admit of bullshit . . . If you tell me you can bench press 450, hell, we'll load up the bar and put you under it. Either you can do it or you can't do it—you can't bullshit. Ultimately, sports are just about as close to what one would call the truth as it is possible to get in this world.” Harry Crews
The either/or world, let's call it.
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Stupidity
“Smart people have the brains, but stupid people have the balls” Ana.
That's their problem.
“The only people that can't handle the truth are those that suffer so much anxiety that they will live in denial, in order to prevent their illusion from being destroyed and feeling more anxiety.” Shannon L. Alder
Objectivists, let's call them.
"Use that fluff of yours you call a brain.”Agatha Christie
Cue the clouds!
“You can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public.” Scott Adams
To wit: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/25/busi ... ist-tirade
“You can't overestimate the stupidity of the general public.” Charles Bukowski
Let's consider this a challenge.
“Please tell me you're not that stupid.” C.J. Redwine
So, what did you tell her?
“Smart people have the brains, but stupid people have the balls” Ana.
That's their problem.
“The only people that can't handle the truth are those that suffer so much anxiety that they will live in denial, in order to prevent their illusion from being destroyed and feeling more anxiety.” Shannon L. Alder
Objectivists, let's call them.
"Use that fluff of yours you call a brain.”Agatha Christie
Cue the clouds!
“You can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public.” Scott Adams
To wit: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/25/busi ... ist-tirade
“You can't overestimate the stupidity of the general public.” Charles Bukowski
Let's consider this a challenge.
“Please tell me you're not that stupid.” C.J. Redwine
So, what did you tell her?
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
The Black Panther Party. Philadelphia. 1976. Not what it once was. But closer no doubt to that than to what it is today. And imagine the gap between that and, say the Bloods and the Crips. Or in Philadelphia, the Black Mafia. But this reflects the huge gap between the political culture that pervaded “the sixties”, then “the seventies” and the general lack of one over the past 25 to 30 years.
Let’s face it, politically, it is basically a vast wasteland in America. Not that no one is pursuing it, of course. It’s just the enormous gap between now and then.
Here, Marcus was once a part of the past that burst into a present that folks like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X gave rise to all those years ago. But then he was gone. And now he is back. His father has died. But some still accuse him of being a snitch. A snitch that got a Black Panther killed by the police.
But then the new present here is just a few short years away from the reign of Ronald Reagan — and all that portended for radical politics in America. And by 1976 Operation Cointelpro en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS had already infiltrated and [for all practical purposes] shredded the effectiveness of the BPP. Along with many other radical organizations in America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS
What, you don’t think they still do that today? That the NSA “scandal” isn’t at least in part about that?
And then the part about how entangled the personal can become in the political…becoming all the more entangled as the present becomes entangled in the past. Then truly entangled in all of the conflicting ways in which that can be understood and interpreted.
Here is an NPR interview with the director: https://www.npr.org/2010/12/02/13175702 ... catches-us
Look for some folks from The Wire.
Night Catches Us
Marcus: He left you the house.
Bostic: He was searching for you for four years so yeah he left me the house.
Marcus: We ain’t got him in the ground yet and you got a buyer?
Bostic [who is now a Muslim]: It’s just the way things worked out. And I changed it back…the Bible verse. I put it back the way it was.
Marcus: I’m surprised you still care.
Bostic: Genesis 42:21 is what he wanted.
Marcus: That’s your world, Bos.
Worlds. Don't leave home without one.
Marcus: What can I do for you, Dwayne
DoRight: So, that’s how it’s gonna be? I got a message from the brothers.
Marcus: They sent you?
DoRight [showing him a gun]: Ain’t the same, snitch. I’m in charge now.
Marcus: Same old Dwayne. Got everybody fooled, huh? Look, I’m only here for a week. Then I’ll be gone.
DoRight: None of us have forgotten.
And [of course] it's always the way they remember it.
Bostic: This is not your house! You don’t come in here and make decisions!
[Marcus starts packing his things]
Bostic: Running. That’s all you were any good at anyway.
Marcus: I know it was hard for you when I left, Bos. But it wasn’t my fault. I had to go, you understand that? I didn’t have a choice!!
Bostic: So whose fault is it now?
In other words, over and again, whose fault do you need it to be?
DoRight: The Feds own him. He is their inside man.
Patricia: So you bought the same bullshit story everybody else did?
DoRight: I know!
Patricia: Tell me what you think you know?
DoRight: I know that he sold Neal to the Feds. I know that they put 16 bullets into my friend based on his his information. I know that.
Patricia: It wasn’t Marcus.
DoRight: Alright then who was it?
Patricia [shaking her head]: Maybe it was you.
No, it wasn’t him.
Iris: I want to know how my father died.
Marcus: What did your momma tell you?
Iris: She won’t talk about it.
Marcus: She probably has good reasons.
Iris: She keeps secrets, you know. That’s what mom-mom and pop-pop used to say. One time I heard them call her a Communist like it was a dirty word. Then they started following us.
Marcus: Who is “they”?
Iris: The FBI. They followed us home sometimes. They started tapping our phones. Still do.
[she gives him the phone]
Iris: See? Hear that? If you listen for a long time you can hear it go like “click…click…pop”.
Not unlike posting here?
Jimmy [to a black man two white cops are harrassing]: Look it here man, you ain’t got to tell them nothing! You ain’t got to answer no questions. You ain’t got to show no I.D. They ain’t got no authority.
Cop [to Jimmy]: Hey, mouth.
Jimmy: You don’t have to tell them nothing! You don’t have to tell them who you are or where you live.
Cop [after approaching Jimmy]: Tell me something kid, how many dimes did you have to scrape together to pay that fine?
[he smirks and then walks away]
Jimmy [boiling]: Pig motherfucker!
Marcus: Jimmy, what are you doing? Let’s go!
Jimmy: Let go of me! I’m defending our neighborhood. Not theirs.
[he looks back at tje cop]
Jimmy: You hear that pig?! Don’t come back to our neighborhood. The vanguard has declared war on all your ass.
Next up: the vanguard today.
Jimmy: You know why I loved Neal? Because he killed some cops. He went out like a man. And what did you do?
Marcus: I survived.
Jimmy: Surviving ain’t worth much if it’s in another man’s blood.
Marcus: You don’t know shit!
Jimmy: I know you was a snitch. I know was a chump.
Marcus: I’m a chump?
[he grabs the Black Panther “coloring book comic” from Jimmy]
Marcus: The Feds printed these comics for people just like you. Now you call me a snitch again. You don’t know shit.
Fortunately or unfortunately, you just have to believe shit. That's what makes it true.
Patricia: The year you were born two Black Panthers were killed by the police. And your father was outraged. So he and some other Panthers decided that they were going to kill a police officer. And I tried to convince him not to. We all did. Marcus and Uncle DoRight. But he wouldn’t listen.
Iris: Did he do it?
[Patricia nods her head]
Patricia: But that’s not who we were. That’s not what we did. Your father became angry, disillusioned maybe. You were 8 months old and nobody was safe. And I was going to keep this family together. The night the cop was killed we were taking you to my parents.
Iris: We?
Patricia: Me and Marcus. I loved your father so much. But they were going to send me to prison. And you would have been put in the system and I couldn’t lose you. So…
Marcus: …so I gave him up. I told the cops he was the one. That was the deal. Neal for you and your Mom. I didn’t know they were going to kill him.
So, who did the right thing? And who really was the snitch?
Let’s face it, politically, it is basically a vast wasteland in America. Not that no one is pursuing it, of course. It’s just the enormous gap between now and then.
Here, Marcus was once a part of the past that burst into a present that folks like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X gave rise to all those years ago. But then he was gone. And now he is back. His father has died. But some still accuse him of being a snitch. A snitch that got a Black Panther killed by the police.
But then the new present here is just a few short years away from the reign of Ronald Reagan — and all that portended for radical politics in America. And by 1976 Operation Cointelpro en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS had already infiltrated and [for all practical purposes] shredded the effectiveness of the BPP. Along with many other radical organizations in America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS
What, you don’t think they still do that today? That the NSA “scandal” isn’t at least in part about that?
And then the part about how entangled the personal can become in the political…becoming all the more entangled as the present becomes entangled in the past. Then truly entangled in all of the conflicting ways in which that can be understood and interpreted.
Here is an NPR interview with the director: https://www.npr.org/2010/12/02/13175702 ... catches-us
Look for some folks from The Wire.
Night Catches Us
Marcus: He left you the house.
Bostic: He was searching for you for four years so yeah he left me the house.
Marcus: We ain’t got him in the ground yet and you got a buyer?
Bostic [who is now a Muslim]: It’s just the way things worked out. And I changed it back…the Bible verse. I put it back the way it was.
Marcus: I’m surprised you still care.
Bostic: Genesis 42:21 is what he wanted.
Marcus: That’s your world, Bos.
Worlds. Don't leave home without one.
Marcus: What can I do for you, Dwayne
DoRight: So, that’s how it’s gonna be? I got a message from the brothers.
Marcus: They sent you?
DoRight [showing him a gun]: Ain’t the same, snitch. I’m in charge now.
Marcus: Same old Dwayne. Got everybody fooled, huh? Look, I’m only here for a week. Then I’ll be gone.
DoRight: None of us have forgotten.
And [of course] it's always the way they remember it.
Bostic: This is not your house! You don’t come in here and make decisions!
[Marcus starts packing his things]
Bostic: Running. That’s all you were any good at anyway.
Marcus: I know it was hard for you when I left, Bos. But it wasn’t my fault. I had to go, you understand that? I didn’t have a choice!!
Bostic: So whose fault is it now?
In other words, over and again, whose fault do you need it to be?
DoRight: The Feds own him. He is their inside man.
Patricia: So you bought the same bullshit story everybody else did?
DoRight: I know!
Patricia: Tell me what you think you know?
DoRight: I know that he sold Neal to the Feds. I know that they put 16 bullets into my friend based on his his information. I know that.
Patricia: It wasn’t Marcus.
DoRight: Alright then who was it?
Patricia [shaking her head]: Maybe it was you.
No, it wasn’t him.
Iris: I want to know how my father died.
Marcus: What did your momma tell you?
Iris: She won’t talk about it.
Marcus: She probably has good reasons.
Iris: She keeps secrets, you know. That’s what mom-mom and pop-pop used to say. One time I heard them call her a Communist like it was a dirty word. Then they started following us.
Marcus: Who is “they”?
Iris: The FBI. They followed us home sometimes. They started tapping our phones. Still do.
[she gives him the phone]
Iris: See? Hear that? If you listen for a long time you can hear it go like “click…click…pop”.
Not unlike posting here?
Jimmy [to a black man two white cops are harrassing]: Look it here man, you ain’t got to tell them nothing! You ain’t got to answer no questions. You ain’t got to show no I.D. They ain’t got no authority.
Cop [to Jimmy]: Hey, mouth.
Jimmy: You don’t have to tell them nothing! You don’t have to tell them who you are or where you live.
Cop [after approaching Jimmy]: Tell me something kid, how many dimes did you have to scrape together to pay that fine?
[he smirks and then walks away]
Jimmy [boiling]: Pig motherfucker!
Marcus: Jimmy, what are you doing? Let’s go!
Jimmy: Let go of me! I’m defending our neighborhood. Not theirs.
[he looks back at tje cop]
Jimmy: You hear that pig?! Don’t come back to our neighborhood. The vanguard has declared war on all your ass.
Next up: the vanguard today.
Jimmy: You know why I loved Neal? Because he killed some cops. He went out like a man. And what did you do?
Marcus: I survived.
Jimmy: Surviving ain’t worth much if it’s in another man’s blood.
Marcus: You don’t know shit!
Jimmy: I know you was a snitch. I know was a chump.
Marcus: I’m a chump?
[he grabs the Black Panther “coloring book comic” from Jimmy]
Marcus: The Feds printed these comics for people just like you. Now you call me a snitch again. You don’t know shit.
Fortunately or unfortunately, you just have to believe shit. That's what makes it true.
Patricia: The year you were born two Black Panthers were killed by the police. And your father was outraged. So he and some other Panthers decided that they were going to kill a police officer. And I tried to convince him not to. We all did. Marcus and Uncle DoRight. But he wouldn’t listen.
Iris: Did he do it?
[Patricia nods her head]
Patricia: But that’s not who we were. That’s not what we did. Your father became angry, disillusioned maybe. You were 8 months old and nobody was safe. And I was going to keep this family together. The night the cop was killed we were taking you to my parents.
Iris: We?
Patricia: Me and Marcus. I loved your father so much. But they were going to send me to prison. And you would have been put in the system and I couldn’t lose you. So…
Marcus: …so I gave him up. I told the cops he was the one. That was the deal. Neal for you and your Mom. I didn’t know they were going to kill him.
So, who did the right thing? And who really was the snitch?
- iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Here is a film worth viewing if only for the final shot of the final scene. Some might say it speaks volumes regarding what the modern world may well come to reduce some of us to. Indeed, in my own way I have come to embody it myself. If for entirely different reasons.
Let’s face it, there are folks more willing to take risks than others. Similarly, there are folks who will go right to the edge over and over and over again. While others forever play it safe. Some folks are takers. While others are more inclined to give and give and give.
But then some folks have more responsibilities than others. For example, they have children to raise. And few things will make grown adults more cautious [more conservative] than wanting what is best for their kids. You’re not just gambling with your own life now.
Eddy is a risk taker, a gambler, a man willing to explore the boundary between “safe” and “not safe” like few others. But then he has no children. And it is also quite possible that he is a con man. And by “con man”, we are talking about the long con here.
Or maybe he is even a…sociopath?
Anyway, many folks will react ambivalently to him. They admire his willingness to probe the outer limits…but time and again they find themselves thinking, “is that really the right thing to do”?
Admittedly, almost no one saw this film. It garnered only 11 reviews at RT and a paltry 27% fresh rating. Even worse, of the 3,540 user ratings it garnered only a 25% approval rating. And a measely 5.7 rating at IMDb. And yet it is still one of my favorite films in the psychological “thriller” genre.
But maybe that is because it does explore the way in which some folks are willing to [or are able to] push the boundaries regarding what is deemed to be acceptable behavior. And from the perspective of the narcissistic personality. And in a world [presumably] without God. And this makes some folks feel really uncomfortable.
Consenting Adults
Richard: Jimmy! It’s not the fucking “Leonora Overture” okay? It’s a jingle!
Richard wants to be a “real musician”. Instead, he writes muzak for television commercials.
Richard [to Priscilla]: I know how you feel about neighbours but it’s only drinks.
And then later a murder or two.
Eddy: The way I look at life…the way I look at it is this: money is like blood. It’s no big deal but if you want to live…you’ve gotta have a lot of it pumping through the system. For example, most people will never know what it’s like to drive a boat at 100 miles per hour. Or go to Jamaica for the weekend. Or see the Grand Canyon from a hot air balloon. See what I’m saying, without money, you shrivel up.
Priscilla: So how do you explain all those shriveled up rich people?
Eddy: I’ll tell you how, because those people, they know how to make money, but they don’t know how to spend it.
On goods and services has always worked for me.
Eddy: How much do you owe?
Richard: It’s not that much, Eddy. Let’s not talk about it.
Eddy: No, Richard, I’m serious. Maybe I can be of some help here.
Richard: You can’t. Believe me.
Eddy: Is there anything we can’t talk about? Now. Come on.
Richard: You really wanna know? Current debts. Credit cards. bank loans. About 25,000.
Eddy: Is that all? I can get you that in an afternoon.
Richard: How?
Eddy: Leave it to me, Bubbi. Three to six weeks. Okay?
The con man. And then some.
Eddy: Ow! Ow! Ow! Don’t touch me. Don’t.
Priscilla: Richard!
Eddy: I can’t move. I can’t move!...Or can I?
[he takes off the neck brace and from inside it he pulls out a check]
Eddy: Ah, well. What’s this? Your insurance company. Neck and back scares the shit out of them.
The plot thickens.
Eddy: I’m in the business, Pal. It was easy. I got this pet doctor. It was nothing. Oh, I’m gonna keep five if that’s okay with you guys.
[Richard and Priscilla look at each other speechless]
Eddy: Yes, Priscilla, it’s true. It–It was a scam.
Priscilla: You broke the law, Eddy. For us?
Eddy: What are friends for?
On the other hand, don't get him started.
Eddy: You wanna fuck my wife, don’t you?
[Richard looks startled]
Eddy: Oh, don’t look so scared, Richard. It’s no big deal. Most guys want to fuck my wife. I’ve kind of gotten used to the idea.
[he looks over toward Priscilla]
Eddy: I’m not entirely immune to that kind of thought myself. I mean nobody wants to blow their marriage. God forbid. For just one night though…wouldn’t that be sweet?
Richard backs out. And then some. Then he's back in. And then some.
Eddy: Let me ask you something. You ever wake up in the middle of the night and…you know…just sort of do it? Like half asleep?
Richard: Yeah. Sure.
Eddy: I wonder what would happen if you and I got up in the middle of the night. Went next door…and crept into the other man’s bedroom? Would they know the difference?
Richard: Yeah, I think so.
Eddy: But would they mind? They want exactly what we want. In the heat of the moment they’ll love it.
Fuck you, Eddy. Then later his...wife?
Eddy: I’ll bet you a thousand dollars we could pull it off.
Richard: Eddy. Come on. Enough with this.
Eddy: Enough? Enough? You say “enough” real quick, don’t you? Look, let me tell you something…I can’t remember when I’ve liked a guy as much as I like you. But the truth of the matter is you’re a wimp. You think you can be alive without taking risks. That’s why you end up living this 50% existence when there’s 100% waiting out there to be had. You’re full of fear. Your life is choked. You write jingles when you’d rather be doing albums. You do it for money, but you’re always in debt. You wanna make love to my wife but you’re afraid you’ll get caught. This is how you die…step by step…these little things you deny yourself…this cowardice.
The long, long, long con.
Richard: Goddamn it, Eddy, that’s enough! Okay? The subject is closed. It’s not gonna happen. I hope we can stay friends.
Eddy: I don’t know. You make me feel bad. You’re so judgmental.
Richard: I’m not judgmental. We’re just different. Okay? You’re you and I’m me.
Eddy: Oh, that is absolutely right! I got balls and you don’t.
My guess: he comes around.
Priscilla [to Richard]: When you deem me worthy, I’d like to know what happened between you and Eddy.
Next up: what happens between her and Eddy...
Richard [to Priscilla…but more to himself]: We never should have taken that money.
Priscilla: We should never have taken that money? Now you say something? Now you’re gonna make your moral judgement? Is that what this is all about? Eddy lacks your moral fibre? What about gratitude, Richard? He risked his reputation. He risked his life for us! No, he may not always play by the rules, but at least he’s in the game. When was the last time you took a risk?
I'm thinking, "shit just tell her!"
Priscilla: You have to help me understand this, Richard. Please. Help me. Please.
Richard: I thought it was what everyone wanted. It seems like everyone was pushing me to do it. Even you.
Priscilla: Who was pushing you to kill her?
The plot sickens.
David: My company. Duttonville Research…it’s been hired by three insurance companies to investigate a total $1.5 million double indemnity claim by Eddy Otis on his wife, Kay Otis.
Richard: $1.5 million?
David: Yes. That’s the point. It is rather a lot to take out on a would-be lounge singer who never earned a cent in her entire life. However, there’s no law against it. She had a policy on him in the same amount. Eddy’s explanation is that they loved each other so much he figured if either of them got killed…they’d need a lot of compensation.
Richard [more to himself]: So he went back in there and he beat her to death…for money.
David: You’re saying he killed Kay Otis?
Richard: Of course he killed her. But what a set-up! The whole thing just so he could…$1.5 million dollars.
Actually, he doesn’t know the half of it. The other half for example.
David [to Richard]: Oh, and by the way, in case you’re interested, when I interviewed Otis, he was with your spouse. The grieving widower comforting the lonely wife.
The whole point, let's call it. Or, rather, one of them.
Richard: I’m looking for an Olivia Kamen.
Hotel Desk Clerk: She’s down at the Dominion Cafe.
Richard: Where’s that?
Hotel Desk Clerk: It’s the joint on East Broad and Bay.
Richard: Could you walk it from here?
Hotel Desk Clerk [who is in a wheelchair]: No. But you could.
And he does. Just not in time.
Eddy [whispering]: Did you know that I can see things, Priscilla. I can see things nobody can. I’m so good at predicting, that I can read tomorrow’s headline. “A man last night broke into the home of his ex-wife, and killed for the third and last time. Arriving tragically too late, Eddy Otis, the woman’s… the dead woman’s friend, shot and killed him. The man, Richard Parker, was already wanted in connection with several other murders.” Oh yes, he’s here. Priscilla, he’s in the house right now, wondering when he should make his final move. Why? Because I wanted him to. He’s my puppet. Here he comes. Come on, Richard. Come to papa.
Cue that final shot.
Enough said?
Let’s face it, there are folks more willing to take risks than others. Similarly, there are folks who will go right to the edge over and over and over again. While others forever play it safe. Some folks are takers. While others are more inclined to give and give and give.
But then some folks have more responsibilities than others. For example, they have children to raise. And few things will make grown adults more cautious [more conservative] than wanting what is best for their kids. You’re not just gambling with your own life now.
Eddy is a risk taker, a gambler, a man willing to explore the boundary between “safe” and “not safe” like few others. But then he has no children. And it is also quite possible that he is a con man. And by “con man”, we are talking about the long con here.
Or maybe he is even a…sociopath?
Anyway, many folks will react ambivalently to him. They admire his willingness to probe the outer limits…but time and again they find themselves thinking, “is that really the right thing to do”?
Admittedly, almost no one saw this film. It garnered only 11 reviews at RT and a paltry 27% fresh rating. Even worse, of the 3,540 user ratings it garnered only a 25% approval rating. And a measely 5.7 rating at IMDb. And yet it is still one of my favorite films in the psychological “thriller” genre.
But maybe that is because it does explore the way in which some folks are willing to [or are able to] push the boundaries regarding what is deemed to be acceptable behavior. And from the perspective of the narcissistic personality. And in a world [presumably] without God. And this makes some folks feel really uncomfortable.
Consenting Adults
Richard: Jimmy! It’s not the fucking “Leonora Overture” okay? It’s a jingle!
Richard wants to be a “real musician”. Instead, he writes muzak for television commercials.
Richard [to Priscilla]: I know how you feel about neighbours but it’s only drinks.
And then later a murder or two.
Eddy: The way I look at life…the way I look at it is this: money is like blood. It’s no big deal but if you want to live…you’ve gotta have a lot of it pumping through the system. For example, most people will never know what it’s like to drive a boat at 100 miles per hour. Or go to Jamaica for the weekend. Or see the Grand Canyon from a hot air balloon. See what I’m saying, without money, you shrivel up.
Priscilla: So how do you explain all those shriveled up rich people?
Eddy: I’ll tell you how, because those people, they know how to make money, but they don’t know how to spend it.
On goods and services has always worked for me.
Eddy: How much do you owe?
Richard: It’s not that much, Eddy. Let’s not talk about it.
Eddy: No, Richard, I’m serious. Maybe I can be of some help here.
Richard: You can’t. Believe me.
Eddy: Is there anything we can’t talk about? Now. Come on.
Richard: You really wanna know? Current debts. Credit cards. bank loans. About 25,000.
Eddy: Is that all? I can get you that in an afternoon.
Richard: How?
Eddy: Leave it to me, Bubbi. Three to six weeks. Okay?
The con man. And then some.
Eddy: Ow! Ow! Ow! Don’t touch me. Don’t.
Priscilla: Richard!
Eddy: I can’t move. I can’t move!...Or can I?
[he takes off the neck brace and from inside it he pulls out a check]
Eddy: Ah, well. What’s this? Your insurance company. Neck and back scares the shit out of them.
The plot thickens.
Eddy: I’m in the business, Pal. It was easy. I got this pet doctor. It was nothing. Oh, I’m gonna keep five if that’s okay with you guys.
[Richard and Priscilla look at each other speechless]
Eddy: Yes, Priscilla, it’s true. It–It was a scam.
Priscilla: You broke the law, Eddy. For us?
Eddy: What are friends for?
On the other hand, don't get him started.
Eddy: You wanna fuck my wife, don’t you?
[Richard looks startled]
Eddy: Oh, don’t look so scared, Richard. It’s no big deal. Most guys want to fuck my wife. I’ve kind of gotten used to the idea.
[he looks over toward Priscilla]
Eddy: I’m not entirely immune to that kind of thought myself. I mean nobody wants to blow their marriage. God forbid. For just one night though…wouldn’t that be sweet?
Richard backs out. And then some. Then he's back in. And then some.
Eddy: Let me ask you something. You ever wake up in the middle of the night and…you know…just sort of do it? Like half asleep?
Richard: Yeah. Sure.
Eddy: I wonder what would happen if you and I got up in the middle of the night. Went next door…and crept into the other man’s bedroom? Would they know the difference?
Richard: Yeah, I think so.
Eddy: But would they mind? They want exactly what we want. In the heat of the moment they’ll love it.
Fuck you, Eddy. Then later his...wife?
Eddy: I’ll bet you a thousand dollars we could pull it off.
Richard: Eddy. Come on. Enough with this.
Eddy: Enough? Enough? You say “enough” real quick, don’t you? Look, let me tell you something…I can’t remember when I’ve liked a guy as much as I like you. But the truth of the matter is you’re a wimp. You think you can be alive without taking risks. That’s why you end up living this 50% existence when there’s 100% waiting out there to be had. You’re full of fear. Your life is choked. You write jingles when you’d rather be doing albums. You do it for money, but you’re always in debt. You wanna make love to my wife but you’re afraid you’ll get caught. This is how you die…step by step…these little things you deny yourself…this cowardice.
The long, long, long con.
Richard: Goddamn it, Eddy, that’s enough! Okay? The subject is closed. It’s not gonna happen. I hope we can stay friends.
Eddy: I don’t know. You make me feel bad. You’re so judgmental.
Richard: I’m not judgmental. We’re just different. Okay? You’re you and I’m me.
Eddy: Oh, that is absolutely right! I got balls and you don’t.
My guess: he comes around.
Priscilla [to Richard]: When you deem me worthy, I’d like to know what happened between you and Eddy.
Next up: what happens between her and Eddy...
Richard [to Priscilla…but more to himself]: We never should have taken that money.
Priscilla: We should never have taken that money? Now you say something? Now you’re gonna make your moral judgement? Is that what this is all about? Eddy lacks your moral fibre? What about gratitude, Richard? He risked his reputation. He risked his life for us! No, he may not always play by the rules, but at least he’s in the game. When was the last time you took a risk?
I'm thinking, "shit just tell her!"
Priscilla: You have to help me understand this, Richard. Please. Help me. Please.
Richard: I thought it was what everyone wanted. It seems like everyone was pushing me to do it. Even you.
Priscilla: Who was pushing you to kill her?
The plot sickens.
David: My company. Duttonville Research…it’s been hired by three insurance companies to investigate a total $1.5 million double indemnity claim by Eddy Otis on his wife, Kay Otis.
Richard: $1.5 million?
David: Yes. That’s the point. It is rather a lot to take out on a would-be lounge singer who never earned a cent in her entire life. However, there’s no law against it. She had a policy on him in the same amount. Eddy’s explanation is that they loved each other so much he figured if either of them got killed…they’d need a lot of compensation.
Richard [more to himself]: So he went back in there and he beat her to death…for money.
David: You’re saying he killed Kay Otis?
Richard: Of course he killed her. But what a set-up! The whole thing just so he could…$1.5 million dollars.
Actually, he doesn’t know the half of it. The other half for example.
David [to Richard]: Oh, and by the way, in case you’re interested, when I interviewed Otis, he was with your spouse. The grieving widower comforting the lonely wife.
The whole point, let's call it. Or, rather, one of them.
Richard: I’m looking for an Olivia Kamen.
Hotel Desk Clerk: She’s down at the Dominion Cafe.
Richard: Where’s that?
Hotel Desk Clerk: It’s the joint on East Broad and Bay.
Richard: Could you walk it from here?
Hotel Desk Clerk [who is in a wheelchair]: No. But you could.
And he does. Just not in time.
Eddy [whispering]: Did you know that I can see things, Priscilla. I can see things nobody can. I’m so good at predicting, that I can read tomorrow’s headline. “A man last night broke into the home of his ex-wife, and killed for the third and last time. Arriving tragically too late, Eddy Otis, the woman’s… the dead woman’s friend, shot and killed him. The man, Richard Parker, was already wanted in connection with several other murders.” Oh yes, he’s here. Priscilla, he’s in the house right now, wondering when he should make his final move. Why? Because I wanted him to. He’s my puppet. Here he comes. Come on, Richard. Come to papa.
Cue that final shot.
Enough said?