Re: The Antichrist
Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 3:32 am
Hi Lance,
L:I am not so sure of your synopsis of K here. K often rebukes "those" and "they", he speaks against "philsophers" and does actual take up against "Christians who are not christians".
To me, K doesnt get mad at peoploe or groups (till his later years), he makes fun of them, and is pointing a finger by using one's assertions against one.
AS: To Me K makes fun of even himself. He is pointing his finger at even himself. I believe he is saying, "Have you ever wondered what makes us refuse to see ourselves as we are"...instead of saying, "Have you ever wondered why YOU refuse to see yourself as you are?" We cannot deny that K has a wonderful sense of humor in his writing style and while I amn not sure he had the same social personality as his pen names, I think had circumstances been different he might have. One thing is for certain...he could not make himself do what he thought wrong even though society said it was the "right" thing to do. He marched to his own drummer.
L:I do not see K as asking anyone 'what is your thoughts' nor even implicating the question. I see him as understanding what the thought already is and addressing its silliness and offering a solution in the silliness.
AS: Have you read, "Purity of heart is to will one thing" yet? I finished it while on vacation. And I disagree with what you are saying here. I think he was totally asking for people to think....but yes...he knew he could never know their thoughts...in fact he says just that in POHITWOT.
Yes, I agree that he understood most better than they understood themselves...but that is only because he wasn't afraid to see himself for what he was he wasn't afraid. He was alone in those thoughts...as most people can see everybody elses faults but rarely there own...as if they are not apart of the human race. K included himself in the human part of humanity.
He laughed at himself. He was free to ask the tough questions of himself...but underneath is the seriousness of those questions...that brought him to depression. Was it that no one could understand or maybe it is more like no one wanted to face such harshness? He masked the severity of his thoughts with humor and Christianity. I believe if he hadn't he would have been locked up for having such thoughts.
As it is now it is impossible to have this conversation with most people. Just look a sob coming unglued. I think you are about the only one here that can address difficult concepts without coming unglued...I find it refreshing. But really, what is the biggie about words? If people were able to ask the tough questions without having to act...I think there would be peace. Because deep down we know what N and K is saying is true ( at least those with at least average intelligence) it's just that we have been taught not to think lest those thoughts and questions turn us all into "little Hitler's"....is why they are so taboo.
We can see this clearly when we see SOB's quick to turn against N without bothering to understand the underlying meaning. SOB has clearly fallin into the trap of axiom's set upon him by society and yet he can't even see it. Wrong is wrong and right is right...and no further thought need be required. But really...what is wrong with just supposing for a second that society taught you wrong from the get go? Do you remember that Steve Martin routine where he says, "Suppose you raised a child from birth and you taught him to speak wrong...so that on the first day of kindergarten he raises his hand and says, "May I mombo dogface in the banana patch?" LOL funny yes....but it has very serious undertones...I mean if SOB has been taught to not question anything...to the point that it becomes taboo? I mean...come on...shit...it's only a freaking thought! It blows my mind that someone could seriously put blinders on and say, "Nope I can't even think that thought!" Wow...right?
Society is about control....society is fearful that the message could be distorted in the wrong hands...and while that is somewhat true...at least with the ignorance of existentialism we see today, it is not true that if more people could feel free to ask those types of questions...in a sense that it was natural to ask such questions....I believe that those questions would no longer shock the herd...those questions would become a natural part of questioning why we think the way we do...we could openly discuss and in the discussion the "truth" would come out. And even though we may not be able to change who we are...we could understand how each of us is as much of the problem as the ones we seek to control.... the world would be full of overmen in the sense we would recognize the greatness in our counterpart as well as the weakness....and thus we could see the same in ourselves. There would be a new open discussion about how the law works and why it is designed to make us forget about honor and justice.
What I am talking about is very complicated And I don't really have the ability to word it in the way it needs to be worded. Suffice to say, I think the law has made it impossible for us to be good...in a apriori way...at the same time psychology has enhanced that foreign thought of topsy turvy goodness...that the law has enabled in man....and has made it undesirable to think outside of the axiom we were taught by society...lest we look naive or insane or dangerous! Like the worst thing you can have done to you is for someone to pull the wool over your eyes or ask a simple question about exsistence!
It is in that respect that psychology forces you to stay one step ahead of the "one who would take advantage of you!" Psychology tells you how to spot who is to blame for all the horrible things that happened to you and how to spot them in the future so you can kill them dead in their tracks if they try it again! Psychology has taught us that we are fools and should be on guard with everyone lest we become a victim over and over! Psychology has us all paranoid. It is to the point you can't even give someone a compliment without them becoming suspicious of your motives....Amateur psychologist every last one of us! And then the law...omg...don't even get me started on the law! LOL
L:But, we should really move this to another thread, but then the motion might be effected.
AS: Okay lets....wanna discuss purity of heart? I will even go back and find all the quotes! LOL I mean to show you where he indeed says verbatim that he asks his readers, "what are your thoughts?"...he definitely wants to know...he even says something like..."and even if you dear reader came up to me and showed me where I am wrong...I would not believe you!"
Plus...remember in the last part of fear and trembling when he talks about Heraclitus? He says something like, "Poor Heraclitus to have said, 'you can't step into the same river twice' and then to have one of his students out do him and say, "You can't even step in the same river once!" LOL I got a kick out of that....that was K's humor telling us to out do him...challenging us to go beyond...and yes...even asking us to tell him our thoughts...so that he can do some more philosophy and argue with us....gawd I love that man. Oh the fights we would have had...but the fucker had to die! Men!
L:I am not so sure of your synopsis of K here. K often rebukes "those" and "they", he speaks against "philsophers" and does actual take up against "Christians who are not christians".
To me, K doesnt get mad at peoploe or groups (till his later years), he makes fun of them, and is pointing a finger by using one's assertions against one.
AS: To Me K makes fun of even himself. He is pointing his finger at even himself. I believe he is saying, "Have you ever wondered what makes us refuse to see ourselves as we are"...instead of saying, "Have you ever wondered why YOU refuse to see yourself as you are?" We cannot deny that K has a wonderful sense of humor in his writing style and while I amn not sure he had the same social personality as his pen names, I think had circumstances been different he might have. One thing is for certain...he could not make himself do what he thought wrong even though society said it was the "right" thing to do. He marched to his own drummer.
L:I do not see K as asking anyone 'what is your thoughts' nor even implicating the question. I see him as understanding what the thought already is and addressing its silliness and offering a solution in the silliness.
AS: Have you read, "Purity of heart is to will one thing" yet? I finished it while on vacation. And I disagree with what you are saying here. I think he was totally asking for people to think....but yes...he knew he could never know their thoughts...in fact he says just that in POHITWOT.
Yes, I agree that he understood most better than they understood themselves...but that is only because he wasn't afraid to see himself for what he was he wasn't afraid. He was alone in those thoughts...as most people can see everybody elses faults but rarely there own...as if they are not apart of the human race. K included himself in the human part of humanity.
He laughed at himself. He was free to ask the tough questions of himself...but underneath is the seriousness of those questions...that brought him to depression. Was it that no one could understand or maybe it is more like no one wanted to face such harshness? He masked the severity of his thoughts with humor and Christianity. I believe if he hadn't he would have been locked up for having such thoughts.
As it is now it is impossible to have this conversation with most people. Just look a sob coming unglued. I think you are about the only one here that can address difficult concepts without coming unglued...I find it refreshing. But really, what is the biggie about words? If people were able to ask the tough questions without having to act...I think there would be peace. Because deep down we know what N and K is saying is true ( at least those with at least average intelligence) it's just that we have been taught not to think lest those thoughts and questions turn us all into "little Hitler's"....is why they are so taboo.
We can see this clearly when we see SOB's quick to turn against N without bothering to understand the underlying meaning. SOB has clearly fallin into the trap of axiom's set upon him by society and yet he can't even see it. Wrong is wrong and right is right...and no further thought need be required. But really...what is wrong with just supposing for a second that society taught you wrong from the get go? Do you remember that Steve Martin routine where he says, "Suppose you raised a child from birth and you taught him to speak wrong...so that on the first day of kindergarten he raises his hand and says, "May I mombo dogface in the banana patch?" LOL funny yes....but it has very serious undertones...I mean if SOB has been taught to not question anything...to the point that it becomes taboo? I mean...come on...shit...it's only a freaking thought! It blows my mind that someone could seriously put blinders on and say, "Nope I can't even think that thought!" Wow...right?
Society is about control....society is fearful that the message could be distorted in the wrong hands...and while that is somewhat true...at least with the ignorance of existentialism we see today, it is not true that if more people could feel free to ask those types of questions...in a sense that it was natural to ask such questions....I believe that those questions would no longer shock the herd...those questions would become a natural part of questioning why we think the way we do...we could openly discuss and in the discussion the "truth" would come out. And even though we may not be able to change who we are...we could understand how each of us is as much of the problem as the ones we seek to control.... the world would be full of overmen in the sense we would recognize the greatness in our counterpart as well as the weakness....and thus we could see the same in ourselves. There would be a new open discussion about how the law works and why it is designed to make us forget about honor and justice.
What I am talking about is very complicated And I don't really have the ability to word it in the way it needs to be worded. Suffice to say, I think the law has made it impossible for us to be good...in a apriori way...at the same time psychology has enhanced that foreign thought of topsy turvy goodness...that the law has enabled in man....and has made it undesirable to think outside of the axiom we were taught by society...lest we look naive or insane or dangerous! Like the worst thing you can have done to you is for someone to pull the wool over your eyes or ask a simple question about exsistence!
It is in that respect that psychology forces you to stay one step ahead of the "one who would take advantage of you!" Psychology tells you how to spot who is to blame for all the horrible things that happened to you and how to spot them in the future so you can kill them dead in their tracks if they try it again! Psychology has taught us that we are fools and should be on guard with everyone lest we become a victim over and over! Psychology has us all paranoid. It is to the point you can't even give someone a compliment without them becoming suspicious of your motives....Amateur psychologist every last one of us! And then the law...omg...don't even get me started on the law! LOL
L:But, we should really move this to another thread, but then the motion might be effected.
AS: Okay lets....wanna discuss purity of heart? I will even go back and find all the quotes! LOL I mean to show you where he indeed says verbatim that he asks his readers, "what are your thoughts?"...he definitely wants to know...he even says something like..."and even if you dear reader came up to me and showed me where I am wrong...I would not believe you!"
Plus...remember in the last part of fear and trembling when he talks about Heraclitus? He says something like, "Poor Heraclitus to have said, 'you can't step into the same river twice' and then to have one of his students out do him and say, "You can't even step in the same river once!" LOL I got a kick out of that....that was K's humor telling us to out do him...challenging us to go beyond...and yes...even asking us to tell him our thoughts...so that he can do some more philosophy and argue with us....gawd I love that man. Oh the fights we would have had...but the fucker had to die! Men!
