Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:48 am Cartoon rejected by the Washington Post.
Discuss.

Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX2Hx4Nok-g Here's a Hamas hospital supervisor talking about what Hamas did in his hospital.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:15 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:48 am Cartoon rejected by the Washington Post.
Discuss.

Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX2Hx4Nok-g Here's a Hamas hospital supervisor talking about what Hamas did in his hospital.

Hamas did and does wrong things. That does not justify Israel's action!

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:42 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:15 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:48 am Cartoon rejected by the Washington Post.
Discuss.

Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX2Hx4Nok-g Here's a Hamas hospital supervisor talking about what Hamas did in his hospital.

Hamas did and does wrong things. That does not justify Israel's action!

There's no "trade-off" being proposed here. I'm just pointing out what Hamas is like. And given that that is what they are like, the question simply becomes, "How can we stop Hamas from killing people, whether by slitting their throats, using them as human shields, provoking wars, shooting rockets, or any of the other things Hamas does?"

The question of Israel's attacks will solve itself when Hamas is stopped, because the Israeli people will then be safe, and it will be safe for Israel to stop the war; and Israel's already shown it's keen on a two-state solution. So all we need now is Hamas gone.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:49 pm There's no "trade-off" being proposed here. I'm just pointing out what Hamas is like. And given that that is what they are like, the question simply becomes, "How can we stop Hamas from killing people, whether by slitting their throats, using them as human shields, provoking wars, shooting rockets, or any of the other things Hamas does?"

Sculptor posted a statement recently: "Take what Hamas and other militant groups have done to Israel, multiply it by 1,000, and it will not equal the harm done by Israel to Palestinians."

It is an interesting juxtaposition.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:49 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:42 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:15 pm

Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX2Hx4Nok-g Here's a Hamas hospital supervisor talking about what Hamas did in his hospital.

Hamas did and does wrong things. That does not justify Israel's action!

There's no "trade-off" being proposed here. I'm just pointing out what Hamas is like. And given that that is what they are like, the question simply becomes, "How can we stop Hamas from killing people, whether by slitting their throats, using them as human shields, provoking wars, shooting rockets, or any of the other things Hamas does?"

The question of Israel's attacks will solve itself when Hamas is stopped, because the Israeli people will then be safe, and it will be safe for Israel to stop the war; and Israel's already shown it's keen on a two-state solution. So all we need now is Hamas gone.

Just keep your ass into your border and don't let that Hamas attack you. Israelis cannot get rid of Hamas since violence brings violence. It is a closed loop. Moreover, Israel not just attacking Hamas but mass murdering civilians. They are using dumb bombs which are inaccurate so they cannot kill Hamas members but innocent civilians. Here is a report on using dumb bombs.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:15 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:49 pm There's no "trade-off" being proposed here. I'm just pointing out what Hamas is like. And given that that is what they are like, the question simply becomes, "How can we stop Hamas from killing people, whether by slitting their throats, using them as human shields, provoking wars, shooting rockets, or any of the other things Hamas does?"

Sculptor posted a statement recently: "Take what Hamas and other militant groups have done to Israel, multiply it by 1,000, and it will not equal the harm done by Israel to Palestinians."

Well, that's clearly not true. But even if it were true, it would miss the point entirely.

Nobody's saying that it's okay to bomb people. And nobody's trading off one tragedy against another. If that's what we were doing, I'd charge you with justifying Hamas's rape, murder and torture of innocent civilians. But that would be lame, and I won't do it.

But what can we say about Hamas? If it's bad to kill somebody else's civilians, it's even worse to know that you're forcing somebody to bomb your own people...which is exactly what Hamas not only began to do, but continues to do every day, and has announced they will never stop doing until they, themselves, have been stopped.

Be pragmatic: if you want no more deaths (and what else should we want?) the only way to stop this situation is to stop the people who are keeping it going. And that's Hamas.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:23 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:49 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:42 pm
Hamas did and does wrong things. That does not justify Israel's action!

There's no "trade-off" being proposed here. I'm just pointing out what Hamas is like. And given that that is what they are like, the question simply becomes, "How can we stop Hamas from killing people, whether by slitting their throats, using them as human shields, provoking wars, shooting rockets, or any of the other things Hamas does?"

The question of Israel's attacks will solve itself when Hamas is stopped, because the Israeli people will then be safe, and it will be safe for Israel to stop the war; and Israel's already shown it's keen on a two-state solution. So all we need now is Hamas gone.

Just keep your ass into your border and don't let that Hamas attack you.

Good advice...but far too late. It also doesn't help much with rockets, but thanks for the thought.

Israelis cannot get rid of Hamas since Hamas since violence brings violence.

It's Hamas that won't quit: Israel will. Israel has repeatedly offered a two-state solution for peace; and it's been continually rejected. Even now, the chant is "from the river to the sea," meaning, "Kill all the Jews." There's no possibility of us asking Israel to let that happen. Nor would it be moral if we did.

It will all stop when Hamas is gone. That much, we can know.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:32 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:23 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:49 pm
There's no "trade-off" being proposed here. I'm just pointing out what Hamas is like. And given that that is what they are like, the question simply becomes, "How can we stop Hamas from killing people, whether by slitting their throats, using them as human shields, provoking wars, shooting rockets, or any of the other things Hamas does?"

The question of Israel's attacks will solve itself when Hamas is stopped, because the Israeli people will then be safe, and it will be safe for Israel to stop the war; and Israel's already shown it's keen on a two-state solution. So all we need now is Hamas gone.

Just keep your ass into your border and don't let that Hamas attack you.

Good advice...but far too late. It also doesn't help much with rockets, but thanks for the thought.

So you agree that this war is partially the fault of Israel.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:32 pm

Israelis cannot get rid of Hamas since Hamas since violence brings violence.

It's Hamas that won't quit: Israel will. Israel has repeatedly offered a two-state solution for peace; and it's been continually rejected. Even now, the chant is "from the river to the sea," meaning, "Kill all the Jews." There's no possibility of us asking Israel to let that happen. Nor would it be moral if we did.

It will all stop when Hamas is gone. That much, we can know.

No, now it is Israel who won't accept a cease-fire and negotiation. Moreover, I commented on Israelis using dumb bombs. It would be nice of you if you comment on that too.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:36 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:32 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:23 pm
Just keep your ass into your border and don't let that Hamas attack you.

Good advice...but far too late. It also doesn't help much with rockets, but thanks for the thought.

So you agree that this war is partially the fault of Israel.

Not this one, for sure. This is all on Hamas.

No, now it is Israel who won't accept a cease-fire and negotiation.

Well, not once Hamas has declared to kill Israelis to the very last man. There's no way to negotiate with that attitude. But that, too, is on Hamas.

P.S. -- Did you think that in war, there would be no bombs?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:40 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:36 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:32 pm
Good advice...but far too late. It also doesn't help much with rockets, but thanks for the thought.

So you agree that this war is partially the fault of Israel.

Not this one, for sure. This is all on Hamas.

No, now it is Israel who won't accept a cease-fire and negotiation.

Well, not once Hamas has declared to kill Israelis to the very last man. There's no way to negotiate with that attitude. But that, too, is on Hamas.

Hamas already asked for a cease-fire. That is Israel who won't accept it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:40 pm P.S. -- Did you think that in war, there would be no bombs?

No, the problem is the use of dumb bombs that it is very unlikely to target Hamas but civilians.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:36 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:32 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:23 pm
Just keep your ass into your border and don't let that Hamas attack you.

Good advice...but far too late. It also doesn't help much with rockets, but thanks for the thought.

So you agree that this war is partially the fault of Israel.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:32 pm

Israelis cannot get rid of Hamas since Hamas since violence brings violence.

It's Hamas that won't quit: Israel will. Israel has repeatedly offered a two-state solution for peace; and it's been continually rejected. Even now, the chant is "from the river to the sea," meaning, "Kill all the Jews." There's no possibility of us asking Israel to let that happen. Nor would it be moral if we did.

It will all stop when Hamas is gone. That much, we can know.

No, now it is Israel who won't accept a cease-fire and negotiation. Moreover, I commented on Israelis using dumb bombs. It would be nice of you if you comment on that too.

There was a 'ceasefire' on October 6. What did Hamas do on October 7? Do you remember?

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:46 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:36 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:32 pm
Good advice...but far too late. It also doesn't help much with rockets, but thanks for the thought.

So you agree that this war is partially the fault of Israel.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:32 pm
It's Hamas that won't quit: Israel will. Israel has repeatedly offered a two-state solution for peace; and it's been continually rejected. Even now, the chant is "from the river to the sea," meaning, "Kill all the Jews." There's no possibility of us asking Israel to let that happen. Nor would it be moral if we did.

It will all stop when Hamas is gone. That much, we can know.

No, now it is Israel who won't accept a cease-fire and negotiation. Moreover, I commented on Israelis using dumb bombs. It would be nice of you if you comment on that too.

There was a 'ceasefire' on October 6. What did Hamas do on October 7? Do you remember?

I am talking about a cease-fire that leads to negotiation of ending the war.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:47 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:46 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:36 pm
So you agree that this war is partially the fault of Israel.


No, now it is Israel who won't accept a cease-fire and negotiation. Moreover, I commented on Israelis using dumb bombs. It would be nice of you if you comment on that too.

There was a 'ceasefire' on October 6. What did Hamas do on October 7? Do you remember?

I am talking about a cease-fire that leads to negotiation of ending the war.

You seem to be out of your depth. Perhaps attend English lessons for a few years. That might help.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:45 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:40 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:36 pm
So you agree that this war is partially the fault of Israel.

Not this one, for sure. This is all on Hamas.

No, now it is Israel who won't accept a cease-fire and negotiation.

Well, not once Hamas has declared to kill Israelis to the very last man. There's no way to negotiate with that attitude. But that, too, is on Hamas.

Hamas already asked for a cease-fire. That is Israel who won't accept it.

I don't blame them. Given what Hamas has said it will do, I wouldn't believe them either.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:40 pm P.S. -- Did you think that in war, there would be no bombs?

No, the problem is the use of dumb bombs that it is very unlikely to target Hamas but civilians.

"Dumb" bombs describes every bomb. The term "smart bomb" is a myth. There are only bombs that work more precisely, and those that are less well-equipped. Bombs are things that explode. Explosions kill people. They also create collateral damage. One can talk about "surgical strikes," but there are no "strikes" that do not have side-effects. If you collapse a building, people die. There's no getting around that.

Which is exactly what Hamas also knew, and placed their bombs and terrorists under and in hospitals, schools and mosques. They wanted collateral damage, and lots of it. Now they have it. And when Hamas is gone, so is any reason for the war. So let's all advocate for the quickest route to get rid of Hamas.

In the interim, let's get back to this...

"The Abrahamic religions are a group of religions, most notably Judaism, Christianity and Islam, centered around the worship of the God of Abraham. Abraham, a Hebrew patriarch, is extensively mentioned in the religious scriptures of the Hebrew and Christian Bibles, and the Quran." wiki

So, the religious fanatics there are slaughtering each other -- including babies, infants and kids by the thousands -- in the name of the same God. This God is said to be omniscient and omnipotent. So, in the blink of an eye, He could stop it. He could settle it once and for all. There would be -- could be -- no possible doubt whatsoever which denomination is the correct one.

Instead, He does nothing.

Meanwhile, the evangelical Christian fanatics back the Jews because that is in sync with their End Times/Second Coming/Left Behind assumptions.

All the while, Jesus Christ/God Himself is a Jew!

And if that is the case, how exactly would Judgment Day itself unfold if, say, a devout Jew, a devout Muslim and a devout Christian all died on the same day and were being judged by the God of Abraham at the Pearly Gates.

Or, perhaps, something along these lines: https://youtu.be/9GbS9bO_UFo?si=8aV5PolQpH2P7oUJ