WE NEED MORE GUNS..

[Harbal]

My thinking is grounded in the fact that guns are dangerous to human life

If that were true why is the murder rate going down even though society is acquiring more guns?

I don't know that to be the case, but I do know that its not being the case wouldn't be an obsticle to your claiming it were the case.

There's all sorts of things that are dangerous to human life if abused. Like nuclear energy. But hey... learning how to use dangerous things safely is part and parcel of moral progress.

But we accept those dangers in return for the benefits those things give us. Unless you see death as a benefit, guns only offer danger. I'm not sure how to approach the concept of learning how to shoot someone safely.

[Dontaskme]

So you are a misanthrope and a sociopath.

Good to know.

It takes one to know one. Projection is good to know, for then at least knowing what one is is justifable reason to murder them.

[Skepdick]

The fact that you seem prepared to shoot someone just to preserve your dignity alarms me.

If that were true I would've shot you by now. Lying about me is not very dignifying.

I guess... good thing you are lying about me.

I must say, but if we agreed that not having a gun puts one's life in imminent jeopardy, as you seem to be suggesting, I would say, carry two guns. But we do not agree about that. In fact, it might even make matters worse.

Maybe it makes it worse. Maybe it makes it better. You know what we do when we have to address such uncertainty? We defer to facts and the experiences of others.

Of course my facts tell me having a gun and not needing one is way better than needing one and not having it.

Someone intending to mug you would have more incentive to shoot you in the head and take your wallet if he thought you might have a gun, when he would otherwise only point his gun at you and ask for the wallet. Who knows?

Then I best make him believe that I don't have a gun then? The element of surprise is a great thing.

That's why I own one of these: https://www.phlsterholsters.com/phlster-enigma/

Resorting to this does not put you in a good light. Do you want to come across as petulant when not getting your own way?

Oh, the guy undermining my right to life is measuring up the goodness of my light, is he?

It seems pretty petulant to me to rationalized away my right to life under the pretense of reason and then painting me as "petulant" for rejecting your reason...

Of course, it's all part and parcel of the usual political and character assassination playbook

And that's why we have rights. So that my right to life isn't dependent upon my "standing in good light"

Times have changed quite considerably since the powers that be -or were- granted the right to bear arms.

I see. So things change. Rights go away. When do you think the right to life would fall out of fashion?

You no longer live in isolated pockets in the middle of nowhere, miles from any kind of law enforcement, filled with constant anxiety about redskins appearing on the horizon, making a bee line for your little shack. I'm sure having a gun was considered pretty essential back then, and I can completely see why, but I don't think it's appropriate in this day and age, in a supposedly civilised country. If it really is appropriate, then I would say something is very wrong somewhere.

Of course. There is absolutely no need for a gun in a civilised society. Nobody is disagreeing with that!

But why does a civilised society need to ban guns?

[Skepdick]

So you are a misanthrope and a sociopath.

Good to know.

It takes one to know one. Projection is good to know, for then at least knowing what one is is justifable reason to murder them.

You seem to be projecting about my projection.

I guess we'll leave it there.

[Skepdick]

I don't know that to be the case, but I do know that its not being the case wouldn't be an obsticle to your claiming it were the case.

It's weird how this "knowledge" just presents itself to you. It would be great if you could justify it with some facts.

Like I did... 700 year trend. More guns - less murder.

trends.png

But we accept those dangers in return for the benefits those things give us. Unless you see death as a benefit, guns only offer danger.

You don't think preventing untimely death is a benefit? That's so weird.

You probably don't find any other life-saving intervention valuable either.

Sanitation. Doctors, Seatbelts. All risk - no reward.

I'm not sure how to approach the concept of learning how to shoot someone safely.

It's probably because you lack the knowledge. Step 1 towards shooting somebody safely is that you follow Golden rules number 4

Know your target and what's behind it.

Furthermore it helps using jacketed hollow point bullets so as to prevent over-penetration and ensuring that your bulets don't hit anything other than your intended target.

I guess you really aren't familiar with the adage that safe doesn't mean risk-free...

[Dontaskme]

So you are a misanthrope and a sociopath.

Good to know.

It takes one to know one. Projection is good to know, for then at least knowing what one is is justifable reason to murder them.

You seem to be projecting about my projection.

I guess we'll leave it there.

Yes, I was thinking that might be a good idea to leave it there, this conversation is getting a bit tedious.

You were the one who complains about feeling sick to your stomach about having to kill someone, stating that it's got to be done.

I'm just saying, I have a problem with people and their need to create those sorts of sick inducing problems. That's why I would just prefer to be an Ape living in the deep jungle, it just seems a much more stress free way to live life, like just a natural sort of life, a life of none-anthropomorphic realities, where I have no idea I am a sociopath or a misanthrope, or have to worry about feeling sick to my stomach when I have to kill some other Ape.

[Skepdick]

Yes, I was thinking that might be a good idea to leave it there, this conversation is getting a bit tedious.

You were the one who complains about feeling sick to your stomach about having to kill someone, stating that it's got to be done.

I'm just saying, I have a problem with people and their need to create those sorts of sick inducing problems. That's why I would just prefer to be an Ape living in the deep jungle, it just seems a much more stress free way to live life, like just a natural sort of life, a life of none-anthropomorphic realities, where I have no idea I am a sociopath or a misanthrope, or have to worry about feeling sick to my stomach when I have to kill some other Ape.

Like this ape? Living a "stress free life" - trying to protect its baby from lions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1dkoYYY3yU

Oh, I forgot - in your society people protect themselves from lions.

[Dontaskme]

Yes, I was thinking that might be a good idea to leave it there, this conversation is getting a bit tedious.

You were the one who complains about feeling sick to your stomach about having to kill someone, stating that it's got to be done.

I'm just saying, I have a problem with people and their need to create those sorts of sick inducing problems. That's why I would just prefer to be an Ape living in the deep jungle, it just seems a much more stress free way to live life, like just a natural sort of life, a life of none-anthropomorphic realities, where I have no idea I am a sociopath or a misanthrope, or have to worry about feeling sick to my stomach when I have to kill some other Ape.

Like this ape? Living a "stress free life" - trying to protect its baby from lions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1dkoYYY3yU

Oh, I forgot - in your society people protect themselves from lions.

I cannot bring myself to watch the video, I know about the brutality that is life as a sentient living feeling being.

There's nowhere to run or hide from this blood thirsty life. I know.

But it seems we like it like that, and is why we keep on reproducing more of ourselves to come join the pointless protection game.

[Skepdick]

I cannot bring myself to watch the video, I know about the brutality that is life as a sentient living feeling being.

There's nowhere to run or hide from this blood thirsty life. I know.

But it seems we like it like that, and is why we keep on reproducing more of ourselves to come join the pointless protection game.

If it's so pointless why do you live in a civilised society that strives to maintain your well-being?

You are such a confused misanthrope/sociopath.

[Dontaskme]

I cannot bring myself to watch the video, I know about the brutality that is life as a sentient living feeling being.

There's nowhere to run or hide from this blood thirsty life. I know.

But it seems we like it like that, and is why we keep on reproducing more of ourselves to come join the pointless protection game.

If it's so pointless why do you live in a civilised society that strives to maintain your well-being?

You are such a confused misanthrope/sociopath.

Ok if you say so.
I'm just a confused misanthrope/sociopath, ok if you say so, then so be it. That's what I am I suppose.

I don't have a need to protect myself which is pointless in my opinion, now I'm a sociopath for having that opinion. Ok, if you say so.

Maybe I was mistaken, maybe I do not live in a civilised world where my well being is being maintained. Maybe it was just my wishful thinking.

[Harbal]

The fact that you seem prepared to shoot someone just to preserve your dignity alarms me.

If that were true I would've shot you by now. Lying about me is not very dignifying.

I guess... good thing you are lying about me.

You seemed to be implying that you not only needed a gun to protect your life, but also your dignity:
"All private citizens posess the right to life and dignity."
But you didn't actually say in so many words that you think your dignity is worth killing for, so I will take that comment back, although I must protest at your calling it lying.

It seems pretty petulant to me to rationalized away my right to life under the pretense of reason and then painting me as "petulant" for rejecting your reason...

My disapproval of guns is not a denial of your right to life, and it is stupid of you to suggest that it is. And your comment about my being a victim of propaganda was intended as an insult, but a lashing out insult, rather than a relevant one, which is what made it appear petulant.

Of course, it's all part and parcel of the usual political and character assassination playbook

You have been persistently trying to put words in my mouth in order to misrepresent my comments throughout our exchange, and I know you weren't doing that to make me look good. If that isn't an attempt at character assassination, I don't know what is. As for your character: why would I go to the trouble of assassinating it when it is so obviously intent on commiting suicide?

I see. So things change. Rights go away. When do you think the right to life would fall out of fashion?

No, I was explaining how the need for a right might go away, and how a once necessary right can not only become unnecessary, but also inappropriate. You knew that, of course, but you just can't resist trying to make me mean something other than I do, can you?

I'm sure your life will always be in fashion with you, but probably not flavour of the month anywhere else.

But why does a civilised society need to ban guns?

If for no other reason, because they are symbolic of a failure to be civilised.

[Harbal]

I don't know that to be the case, but I do know that its not being the case wouldn't be an obsticle to your claiming it were the case.

It's weird how this "knowledge" just presents itself to you. It would be great if you could justify it with some facts.

Like I did... 700 year trend. More guns - less murder.

trends.png

I have no idea what those zig-zag lines relate to exactly, or who produced them, so what reason do I have for even acknowledging them as relevant?

You don't think preventing untimely death is a benefit? That's so weird.

What's weird is that you don't consider such a tactic beneath you. I hope I never feel the need to resort to it.

You probably don't find any other life-saving intervention valuable either.

Sanitation. Doctors, Seatbelts. All risk - no reward.

If you don't mind making yourself look stupid, I hope you won't object to my enjoying the spectacle.

I guess you really aren't familiar with the adage that safe doesn't mean risk-free...

I think of an adage as being an established saying, whereas that seems like something you just made up on the spot, without even bothering to apply a bit of imagination to it. Are you sure it's an adage, or were you trying to create one of your own?

[Skepdick]

I have no idea what those zig-zag lines relate to exactly, or who produced them, so what reason do I have for even acknowledging them as relevant?

All of that information is on the graph. But I have the nagging feeling that the silly nitpicking dance has already commenced...

What's weird is that you don't consider such a tactic beneath you. I hope I never feel the need to resort to it.

Tactic? I didn't realise I've found myself amindst yet another situation where tactics are necessary.

It's very unfortunate, because if sure sounds like you are telling me that I am in such a situation... Just as I thought maturity comes with age.

If you don't mind making yourself look stupid, I hope you won't object to my enjoying the spectacle.

The least I could do is reaturn the favour. I've been enjoying watching yourself look stupid for a while now.

I think of an adage as being an established saying, whereas that seems like something you just made up on the spot, without even bothering to apply a bit of imagination to it. Are you sure it's an adage, or were you trying to create one of your own?

Certianly can't claim it as my own. Since it's a common phrase in my circle of friends.

[Harbal]

I have no idea what those zig-zag lines relate to exactly, or who produced them, so what reason do I have for even acknowledging them as relevant?

All of that information is on the graph. But I have the nagging feeling that the silly dance has already commenced...

What's weird is that you don't consider such a tactic beneath you. I hope I never feel the need to resort to it.

Tactic? I didn't realise I've found myself amindst yet another situation where tactics are required.

It's very unfortunate, because if you are telling me that I am in situation that tactics matter then so does strategy. And the most effective defensive strategy is often an outstanding offense.

If you don't mind making yourself look stupid, I hope you won't object to my enjoying the spectacle.

The least I could do is reaturn the favour. I've been enjoying watching yourself look stupid for a while now.

I think of an adage as being an established saying, whereas that seems like something you just made up on the spot, without even bothering to apply a bit of imagination to it. Are you sure it's an adage, or were you trying to create one of your own?

Certianly can't claim it as my own. Since it's a common phrase in my circle of friends.

How about we let yours be the last word on the subject? You can have this one for free.

But then I suppose this post of mine would be the last word.

Okay, you can do one more post, distorting my words as much as you like, and pretending you are on top of this as much as you like, and I won't respond to it; how's that?

It's just that my short attention span, that someone pointed out earlier, is stretched to the limit now.

[Dontaskme]

But why does a civilised society need to ban guns?

To maintain their sense of well being and mental heath, to create an atmosphere of civil order for it's citizens. A kind of protection without the alternative of a world full of private gun owners who feel their need for a gun is the only way they can feel safe in the world, which in my opinion, only promotes hostility and deadly violence when these weapons end up in the wrong hands. It's a stupid unnecessary way to protect ourselves.

Guns do not make a safer world, they do in fact make all human interactions more hostile knowing what damage they can cause. Guns are produced, sold, and bought with one sole purpose, to cause harm to ourselves or others. To deny that is arrogance and pointless egoic entitled pride.

I don't know why not wanting to live in a world of people who own guns makes me the sociopath, But, yes, I could be seen as a misanthrope just because I happen to think private ownership of guns do not make the world a safer place. So I would tend to avoid such people like the plague, but that doesn't make me a sociopath because I choose not to associate with private gun owners or endorse their right to own them as their birthright to protect their own lives and property at all cost. I happen to be scared of people who own guns, and thats why I would want to avoid them, so yes, that would make me a misanthrope for sure. I like to think the human world is a safe place to live in, but then that could well be just my wishful thinking. Maybe it really is a bloody thirsty jungle out there, and I'm just in denial, or maybe I just know it is a jungle out there. How do we even define a civil world anyway? yes, it does get very confusing as to whether people are civilised or not, I'm in no denial about that.