Philosophy Now Forum

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 11:38 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 11:11 am We have to answer it regarding the immediate war, and moreover as immediately as humanly possible in order to gain the result of stopping Israeli aggression, Hamas is not an immediate problem. Immediacy is the clue to what is the best moral stance.

Is that an argument for a strange sort of RELATIVE morality?

Hamas not an immediate threat to you, so it would be wrong for you to wage war against Hamas. But wait a minute, it's not YOUR actions that are in question. You are not making war on anybody.

Is Hamas an immediate threat to an Israeli? Certainly would seem so post 10/7.

BUT, because YOU are not threatened by Hamas you are saying that wrong for an Israeli to make war on Hamas?

Israel is a settler colonial state, and as with all colonial powers, it affected its state through violence. It took three different Israeli terror groups to terrorize the British and get them to leave. The West and the British in particular recognized Israel's legality, which they had no legal grounds to do. People in the West are subjected to the most powerful propaganda machine the world has ever known, that of the Israeli/American propaganda machine. At this point in the drama, the world knows that Israel has usurped the American Congress, and together they are engaged in not war, but genocide. They stand together and will fall together. They are now rogue states to the world at large, with no moral foundation to stand on, but they put the whole world in jeopardy with their endless wars. Are the West and Israel moral? No, genocide is never moral, and both have an ongoing history of practicing genocide. DEATH TO ISRAEL, AND PISS ON ITS GRAVE!

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 11:38 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 11:11 am We have to answer it regarding the immediate war, and moreover as immediately as humanly possible in order to gain the result of stopping Israeli aggression, Hamas is not an immediate problem. Immediacy is the clue to what is the best moral stance.

Is that an argument for a strange sort of RELATIVE morality?

Hamas not an immediate threat to you, so it would be wrong for you to wage war against Hamas. But wait a minute, it's not YOUR actions that are in question. You are not making war on anybody.

Is Hamas an immediate threat to an Israeli? Certainly would seem so post 10/7.

How is "hamas" an immediate threat to an "israeli", exactly?

To me, if people took some one I know as a 'hostage', then how would those people be a 'threat', to 'me'?

If those people are just wanting some thing, in return, then how, exactly, is that a 'threat', to 'me'?

Maybe I could ask some thing like, 'What have I done, for them to do what they have done?' and then just be open and honest in answering. Instead of dropping bombs on thousands and thousands and thousands of children and babies heads. Maybe I could just be open and honest while answering 'that question' instead of starving thousands and thousands of actual human beings, including human children and babies.

If absolutely any one thinks or believes that maiming, starving, killing, and murdering thousands and thousands of children and babies in some sort of jokingly attempt to just 'get back' 48 human beings can be 'justified', then 'that one' is very sadly 'mistaken'.

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 11:38 pm BUT, because YOU are not threatened by Hamas you are saying that wrong for an Israeli to make war on Hamas?

Why do some people believe that 'all of this' started on 'one date', just a few years prior to 'the date' when 'this is being written'?

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 11:38 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 11:11 am We have to answer it regarding the immediate war, and moreover as immediately as humanly possible in order to gain the result of stopping Israeli aggression, Hamas is not an immediate problem. Immediacy is the clue to what is the best moral stance.

Is that an argument for a strange sort of RELATIVE morality?

Hamas not an immediate threat to you, so it would be wrong for you to wage war against Hamas. But wait a minute, it's not YOUR actions that are in question. You are not making war on anybody.

Is Hamas an immediate threat to an Israeli? Certainly would seem so post 10/7.

BUT, because YOU are not threatened by Hamas you are saying that wrong for an Israeli to make war on Hamas?

Israel is a settler colonial state, and as with all colonial powers, it affected its state through violence. It took three different Israeli terror groups to terrorize the British and get them to leave. The West and the British in particular recognized Israel's legality, which they had no legal grounds to do. People in the West are subjected to the most powerful propaganda machine the world has ever known, that of the Israeli/American propaganda machine.

The 'religious' 'propaganda machine', which includes the 'science community' let 'us' not forget, is also a very 'powerful propaganda machine', which contrary to your claim, here, may well be even actually be 'far more powerful' than just that one little "israeli/american" one, which you speak of, here.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am At this point in the drama, the world knows that Israel has usurped the American Congress, and together they are engaged in not war, but genocide.

Well 'the genocide', which was 'taking place' way before 'that date' a few hostages were 'taken' into "gaza", was obvious 'back then'. But, with all things 'some' come to see, and learn, some things 'before' others do.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am They stand together and will fall together.

But, how can 'they fall' if, together, 'they' just create enough weaponry to just 'genocide' absolutely every one who is 'against them', and against 'their genocidal ways'?

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am They are now rogue states to the world at large, with no moral foundation to stand on,

But, every "colonist" and/or ever "genocidalist" never ever had any 'moral foundation to stand on' from the very beginning. And, never will also. But, 'this' has never stopped 'them' finding 'a way' around this Fact.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am but they put the whole world in jeopardy with their endless wars.

Do 'you' think that 'they' really care?

'they' are so blinded by their own importance that 'they' would not care at all if every one was killed, even including "themselves", in their thirst, hunger, and lust for dominance and power 'over others', and 'resources'.

'they are just way too stupid', as some would say, 'for they just do not know what they doing'.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am Are the West and Israel moral? No, genocide is never moral, and both have an ongoing history of practicing genocide. DEATH TO ISRAEL, AND PISS ON ITS GRAVE!

How about, 'death to what 'they' are doing', instead of, 'death to another country and/or that country's people'?

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 1:37 am

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 11:38 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 11:11 am We have to answer it regarding the immediate war, and moreover as immediately as humanly possible in order to gain the result of stopping Israeli aggression, Hamas is not an immediate problem. Immediacy is the clue to what is the best moral stance.

Is that an argument for a strange sort of RELATIVE morality?

Hamas not an immediate threat to you, so it would be wrong for you to wage war against Hamas. But wait a minute, it's not YOUR actions that are in question. You are not making war on anybody.

Is Hamas an immediate threat to an Israeli? Certainly would seem so post 10/7.

How is "hamas" an immediate threat to an "israeli", exactly?

To me, if people took some one I know as a 'hostage', then how would those people be a 'threat', to 'me'?

If those people are just wanting some thing, in return, then how, exactly, is that a 'threat', to 'me'?

Maybe I could ask some thing like, 'What have I done, for them to do what they have done?' and then just be open and honest in answering. Instead of dropping bombs on thousands and thousands and thousands of children and babies heads. Maybe I could just be open and honest while answering 'that question' instead of starving thousands and thousands of actual human beings, including human children and babies.

If absolutely any one thinks or believes that maiming, starving, killing, and murdering thousands and thousands of children and babies in some sort of jokingly attempt to just 'get back' 48 human beings can be 'justified', then 'that one' is very sadly 'mistaken'.

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 11:38 pm BUT, because YOU are not threatened by Hamas you are saying that wrong for an Israeli to make war on Hamas?

Why do some people believe that 'all of this' started on 'one date', just a few years prior to 'the date' when 'this is being written'?

You are right, Age, that to attribute the war in Gaza to that one event is simplistic to say the least. The whole situation has a history. Only reasoned pragmatism will serve.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 1:56 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 11:38 pm

Is that an argument for a strange sort of RELATIVE morality?

Hamas not an immediate threat to you, so it would be wrong for you to wage war against Hamas. But wait a minute, it's not YOUR actions that are in question. You are not making war on anybody.

Is Hamas an immediate threat to an Israeli? Certainly would seem so post 10/7.

BUT, because YOU are not threatened by Hamas you are saying that wrong for an Israeli to make war on Hamas?

Israel is a settler colonial state, and as with all colonial powers, it affected its state through violence. It took three different Israeli terror groups to terrorize the British and get them to leave. The West and the British in particular recognized Israel's legality, which they had no legal grounds to do. People in the West are subjected to the most powerful propaganda machine the world has ever known, that of the Israeli/American propaganda machine.

The 'religious' 'propaganda machine', which includes the 'science community' let 'us' not forget, is also a very 'powerful propaganda machine', which contrary to your claim, here, may well be even actually be 'far more powerful' than just that one little "israeli/american" one, which you speak of, here.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am At this point in the drama, the world knows that Israel has usurped the American Congress, and together they are engaged in not war, but genocide.

Well 'the genocide', which was 'taking place' way before 'that date' a few hostages were 'taken' into "gaza", was obvious 'back then'. But, with all things 'some' come to see, and learn, some things 'before' others do.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am They stand together and will fall together.

But, how can 'they fall' if, together, 'they' just create enough weaponry to just 'genocide' absolutely every one who is 'against them', and against 'their genocidal ways'?

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am They are now rogue states to the world at large, with no moral foundation to stand on,

But, every "colonist" and/or ever "genocidalist" never ever had any 'moral foundation to stand on' from the very beginning. And, never will also. But, 'this' has never stopped 'them' finding 'a way' around this Fact.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am but they put the whole world in jeopardy with their endless wars.

Do 'you' think that 'they' really care?

'they' are so blinded by their own importance that 'they' would not care at all if every one was killed, even including "themselves", in their thirst, hunger, and lust for dominance and power 'over others', and 'resources'.

'they are just way too stupid', as some would say, 'for they just do not know what they doing'.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am Are the West and Israel moral? No, genocide is never moral, and both have an ongoing history of practicing genocide. DEATH TO ISRAEL, AND PISS ON ITS GRAVE!

How about, 'death to what 'they' are doing', instead of, 'death to another country and/or that country's people'?

Israel is an illegal colonial state created and maintained through violence. Israel is a state, not a people, at least that is what world Judaism wishes us to believe, though I suspect it facilitates the present genocide. The end of Empire and Western colonialism NOW. The BRICS federation of nations forever!

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 9:31 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 1:56 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am

Israel is a settler colonial state, and as with all colonial powers, it affected its state through violence. It took three different Israeli terror groups to terrorize the British and get them to leave. The West and the British in particular recognized Israel's legality, which they had no legal grounds to do. People in the West are subjected to the most powerful propaganda machine the world has ever known, that of the Israeli/American propaganda machine.

The 'religious' 'propaganda machine', which includes the 'science community' let 'us' not forget, is also a very 'powerful propaganda machine', which contrary to your claim, here, may well be even actually be 'far more powerful' than just that one little "israeli/american" one, which you speak of, here.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am At this point in the drama, the world knows that Israel has usurped the American Congress, and together they are engaged in not war, but genocide.

Well 'the genocide', which was 'taking place' way before 'that date' a few hostages were 'taken' into "gaza", was obvious 'back then'. But, with all things 'some' come to see, and learn, some things 'before' others do.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am They stand together and will fall together.

But, how can 'they fall' if, together, 'they' just create enough weaponry to just 'genocide' absolutely every one who is 'against them', and against 'their genocidal ways'?

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am They are now rogue states to the world at large, with no moral foundation to stand on,

But, every "colonist" and/or ever "genocidalist" never ever had any 'moral foundation to stand on' from the very beginning. And, never will also. But, 'this' has never stopped 'them' finding 'a way' around this Fact.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am but they put the whole world in jeopardy with their endless wars.

Do 'you' think that 'they' really care?

'they' are so blinded by their own importance that 'they' would not care at all if every one was killed, even including "themselves", in their thirst, hunger, and lust for dominance and power 'over others', and 'resources'.

'they are just way too stupid', as some would say, 'for they just do not know what they doing'.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 12:18 am Are the West and Israel moral? No, genocide is never moral, and both have an ongoing history of practicing genocide. DEATH TO ISRAEL, AND PISS ON ITS GRAVE!

How about, 'death to what 'they' are doing', instead of, 'death to another country and/or that country's people'?

Israel is an illegal colonial state created and maintained through violence. Israel is a state, not a people, at least that is what world Judaism wishes us to believe, though I suspect it facilitates the present genocide. The end of Empire and Western colonialism NOW. The BRICS federation of nations forever!

You need to lay off the woke cliches and Jew-hatred. Thinking is much better for the blood pressure. Learn a bit of history. Why are you so anti-immigration? Which 'colonial state' do you squat your arse on?

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 11:23 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 9:31 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 1:56 am

The 'religious' 'propaganda machine', which includes the 'science community' let 'us' not forget, is also a very 'powerful propaganda machine', which contrary to your claim, here, may well be even actually be 'far more powerful' than just that one little "israeli/american" one, which you speak of, here.



Well 'the genocide', which was 'taking place' way before 'that date' a few hostages were 'taken' into "gaza", was obvious 'back then'. But, with all things 'some' come to see, and learn, some things 'before' others do.


But, how can 'they fall' if, together, 'they' just create enough weaponry to just 'genocide' absolutely every one who is 'against them', and against 'their genocidal ways'?


But, every "colonist" and/or ever "genocidalist" never ever had any 'moral foundation to stand on' from the very beginning. And, never will also. But, 'this' has never stopped 'them' finding 'a way' around this Fact.


Do 'you' think that 'they' really care?

'they' are so blinded by their own importance that 'they' would not care at all if every one was killed, even including "themselves", in their thirst, hunger, and lust for dominance and power 'over others', and 'resources'.

'they are just way too stupid', as some would say, 'for they just do not know what they doing'.


How about, 'death to what 'they' are doing', instead of, 'death to another country and/or that country's people'?

Israel is an illegal colonial state created and maintained through violence. Israel is a state, not a people, at least that is what world Judaism wishes us to believe, though I suspect it facilitates the present genocide. The end of Empire and Western colonialism NOW. The BRICS federation of nations forever!

You need to lay off the woke cliches and Jew-hatred. Thinking is much better for the blood pressure. Learn a bit of history. Why are you so anti-immigration? Which 'colonial state' do you squat your arse on?

THE END OF EMPIRE AND WESTERN COLONIZATION. A MULTIPOLAR WORLD IS HERE! THE BRICS FEDERATION OF NATIONS.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 19, 2025 3:14 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 11:23 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 9:31 pm

Israel is an illegal colonial state created and maintained through violence. Israel is a state, not a people, at least that is what world Judaism wishes us to believe, though I suspect it facilitates the present genocide. The end of Empire and Western colonialism NOW. The BRICS federation of nations forever!

You need to lay off the woke cliches and Jew-hatred. Thinking is much better for the blood pressure. Learn a bit of history. Why are you so anti-immigration? Which 'colonial state' do you squat your arse on?

THE END OF EMPIRE AND WESTERN COLONIZATION. A MULTIPOLAR WORLD IS HERE! THE BRICS FEDERATION OF NATIONS.

Good luck with curing whatever form of insanity you have. You had better leave the US immediately then, or do you think humans evolved there?

accelafine wrote: ↑Fri Sep 19, 2025 5:08 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 19, 2025 3:14 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 11:23 pm

You need to lay off the woke cliches and Jew-hatred. Thinking is much better for the blood pressure. Learn a bit of history. Why are you so anti-immigration? Which 'colonial state' do you squat your arse on?

THE END OF EMPIRE AND WESTERN COLONIZATION. A MULTIPOLAR WORLD IS HERE! THE BRICS FEDERATION OF NATIONS.

Good luck with curing whatever form of insanity you have. You had better leave the US immediately then, or do you think humans evolved there?

Your response reminds me of a dog I once had; he sat in the middle of the highway watching as a truck ran over him. The BRICS federation of nations now represents 55 percent of the world's population and is growing stronger.

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 11:38 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 11:11 am We have to answer it regarding the immediate war, and moreover as immediately as humanly possible in order to gain the result of stopping Israeli aggression, Hamas is not an immediate problem. Immediacy is the clue to what is the best moral stance.

Is that an argument for a strange sort of RELATIVE morality?

Hamas not an immediate threat to you, so it would be wrong for you to wage war against Hamas. But wait a minute, it's not YOUR actions that are in question. You are not making war on anybody.

Is Hamas an immediate threat to an Israeli? Certainly would seem so post 10/7.

How, and why, exactly?

Genocide is ALWAYS WRONG!

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 23, 2025 12:29 am Genocide is ALWAYS WRONG!

And committing it against your own 'people' is diabolical, right?

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Sep 23, 2025 12:49 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 23, 2025 12:29 am Genocide is ALWAYS WRONG!

And committing it against your own 'people' is diabolical, right?

ALWAYS WRONG.

accelafine wrote: ↑Fri Sep 19, 2025 5:08 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 19, 2025 3:14 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Sep 18, 2025 11:23 pm

You need to lay off the woke cliches and Jew-hatred. Thinking is much better for the blood pressure. Learn a bit of history. Why are you so anti-immigration? Which 'colonial state' do you squat your arse on?

THE END OF EMPIRE AND WESTERN COLONIZATION. A MULTIPOLAR WORLD IS HERE! THE BRICS FEDERATION OF NATIONS.

Good luck with curing whatever form of insanity you have. You had better leave the US immediately then, or do you think humans evolved there?

Is BRICS the Brazil/Russia/India/China/South Africa "federation of nations"? What about the UN? Isn't it more like a multipolar "federation of nations"? Sounds like we're back to a bi-polar world.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 1:52 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Fri Sep 19, 2025 5:08 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 19, 2025 3:14 am

THE END OF EMPIRE AND WESTERN COLONIZATION. A MULTIPOLAR WORLD IS HERE! THE BRICS FEDERATION OF NATIONS.

Good luck with curing whatever form of insanity you have. You had better leave the US immediately then, or do you think humans evolved there?

Is BRICS the Brazil/Russia/India/China/South Africa "fe

deration of nations"? What about the UN? Sounds like we're back to a bi-polar world.

The Western world of Empire and violent colonialism is being challenged and quite effectively. The BRICS federation of nations now represents over half of the world's population. There are presently about thirty countries waiting to join. America inherited the colonial powers of the British Empire, beginning just after World War I, when the British realized they could no longer dominate the world as they had in the past; they needed the Americans. Since World War 2, America has become an Empire, and has been the most violent country in the world since 1950. America has been a cruel master, and that is what much of the world is now reacting to. The goal is to end the American Empire and Western colonialism in general. To move from a unipolar world with America at the head to a multipolar world of cooperating nations. Empire and colonialism, as a brutal tradition, began in the fifteenth century with the European Age of Discovery. This is when violent exploitation through colonial enslavement of much of the world began. The West seems to be determined to maintain both the Empire and the colonial tradition and is placing the whole world in jeopardy through aggressive wars. However, if the planet survives, the American empire will end the way all Empires have gone before it, and America will be forced into being a cooperative member of the global community. UNIPOLAR WORLD OR MULTIPOLAR WORLD, THAT IS THE CONFLICT.