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Re: Racism

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:19 am
by Wizard22
iambiguous wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:06 pmOkay, Mr. Wiggle, but my interest here revolves more around how you would "broach the subject" of Race "for all practical purposes" down out of the intellectual clouds. This part...

...if you do believe that "on average" your race is intellectually superior to other races and you were in a position of power in a community composed of many different races, what would be permitted and what would not be permitted in regard to social, political and economic interactions? What behaviors would be encouraged/rewarded and what behaviors would be discouraged/punished? For example, would interracial marriages still be legal?

And how would you compare yourself to, say, those who practiced apartheid in South Africa and those who practiced extermination in Nazi Germany?


Meanwhile, over at ILP, Satyr has taken up the subject of Race with Ecmandu, someone who has spoken personally to God, the Devil and Buddha: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.p ... 3&start=75

You tell me. :wink:
I'm at odds with Western Democratic Liberalism. I'm considering strong Theocratic rule instead—a centralized American Church.

A New Rome. A New Catholicism.

Until this happens, Westerners will continue devolving into absolute depravity and degeneracy. The sheep need a shepherd.

Re: Racism

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:21 am
by Wizard22
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:29 amWe are all one species so the idea of miscegenation is meaningless.
There are no races since we are all capable of breeding.
Attempts at "purity" always fail. That is one reason why the Allies won against the "racially pure" Japanese and Germans.
It's a phenomenon called hybrid vigour, when two distinct types get to cross breed.
That's why Obama was the best President in modern history; fitter. smarter, more capable.
And why Trump and Bush were the worst; stupid, narrow minded, inarticulate - a result of in-breeding. Bush because they were hill-billies and Trump because his family has a record of incest.

How many of your own family has you fucked?
I think you're a perfect example of why heterogeneity fails. Keep posting and proving my points.

Re: Racism

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:54 pm
by iambiguous
Wizard22 aka Mr. Wiggle wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:19 am
iambiguous wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:06 pmOkay, Mr. Wiggle, but my interest here revolves more around how you would "broach the subject" of Race "for all practical purposes" down out of the intellectual clouds. This part...

...if you do believe that "on average" your race is intellectually superior to other races and you were in a position of power in a community composed of many different races, what would be permitted and what would not be permitted in regard to social, political and economic interactions? What behaviors would be encouraged/rewarded and what behaviors would be discouraged/punished? For example, would interracial marriages still be legal?

And how would you compare yourself to, say, those who practiced apartheid in South Africa and those who practiced extermination in Nazi Germany?


Meanwhile, over at ILP, Satyr has taken up the subject of Race with Ecmandu, someone who has spoken personally to God, the Devil and Buddha: https://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.p ... 3&start=75

You tell me. :wink:
I'm at odds with Western Democratic Liberalism. I'm considering strong Theocratic rule instead—a centralized American Church.

A New Rome. A New Catholicism.

Until this happens, Westerners will continue devolving into absolute depravity and degeneracy. The sheep need a shepherd.
Right. And that has exactly what to do with what you would be at odds with here in regard to race?

Or is this still just you being "clever"?


Note to AJ:

Did you put him up to this?

Re: Racism

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 7:48 am
by Wizard22
iambiguous wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:54 pmRight. And that has exactly what to do with what you would be at odds with here in regard to race?

Or is this still just you being "clever"?


Note to AJ:

Did you put him up to this?
If you don't like violent crime, rampant theft, and rioting, then which race are you racist against?

Re: Racism

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:55 pm
by iambiguous
Wizard22 aka Mr. Wiggle22 wrote:If you don't like violent crime, rampant theft, and rioting, then which race are you racist against?
Okay, if you are noting violent crime, rampant theft and rioting, which race are you pinning it all on?

Are all races capable of behaving in this manner given particular contexts, or genetically, biologically, naturally is one race in particular likely to? And if it does come down to genes, biological imperatives and nature how are such behaviors not then largely "beyond one's control"?

And then back to this Mr. Wiggle22:
...if you do believe that "on average" your race is intellectually superior to and far, far less likely to commit crimes, steal or riot than other races and you were in a position of power in a community composed of different races, what would be permitted and what would not be permitted in regard to social, political and economic interactions? What behaviors would be encouraged/rewarded and what behaviors would be discouraged/punished? For example, would interracial marriages still be legal?

And how would you compare yourself [on race] to, say, those who practiced apartheid in South Africa and those who practiced extermination in Nazi Germany?
Note to Satyr: Did you put him up to this?

Re: Racism

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:32 pm
by Alexis Jacobi
Note to Satyr: Initiate processes discussed previously.

Re: Racism

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:46 pm
by iambiguous
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:32 pm Note to Satyr: Initiate processes discussed previously.
How about this instead...

AJ and Satyr and Wizard [assuming they are not one and the same] commence an exchange here that revolves around this:
...if you do believe that "on average" your race is intellectually superior to and far, far less likely to commit crimes, steal or riot than other races and you were in a position of power in a community composed of different races, what would be permitted and what would not be permitted in regard to social, political and economic interactions? What behaviors would be encouraged/rewarded and what behaviors would be discouraged/punished? For example, would interracial marriages still be legal?

And how would you compare yourself [on race] to, say, those who practiced apartheid in South Africa and those who practiced extermination in Nazi Germany?
They agree it's time to stop "just talking" about race up in the intellectual, philosophical, theoretical, didactic, pedantic, etc., clouds and actually walk their talk given what, in regard to race, they construe to be the best of all possible human communities.

So, if you happen to be black or brown or yellow or red or one of these -- https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch ... ackgrounds -- what might you expect of them/from them in this community?

Re: Racism

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:51 pm
by iambiguous
From the New York Times obituary page...

Louise Levy, Who Was Studied for Her Very Long Life, Is Dead at 112

She was one of hundreds of people, all of them Ashkenazi Jews, whose good health and cognitive ability at extreme old age were the subject of genetic research.


Hmm, maybe Jews are God's chosen people...



Had she been born 10 years earlier she could have lived in 3 different centuries.

Re: Racism

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:48 am
by Wizard22
iambiguous wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:55 pmAre all races capable of behaving in this manner given particular contexts, or genetically, biologically, naturally is one race in particular likely to?
If they were, then race would not be politically incorrect and taboo.

"Racist" would not be used as a slur by the liberal-left.

iambiguous wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:55 pmAnd if it does come down to genes, biological imperatives and nature how are such behaviors not then largely "beyond one's control"?
Therein lies the rub, so to speak.

Why are some races "in control" and of their "own control" rather than not? Would it matter if race were reversed with political power? Would the facts change? Would history be erased? Would history's crimes be forgiven or justified?

Re: Racism

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 3:51 pm
by iambiguous
Mr. Wiggle22 wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:48 am
iambiguous wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:55 pmAre all races capable of behaving in this manner given particular contexts, or genetically, biologically, naturally is one race in particular likely to?
If they were, then race would not be politically incorrect and taboo.

"Racist" would not be used as a slur by the liberal-left.

iambiguous wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:55 pmAnd if it does come down to genes, biological imperatives and nature how are such behaviors not then largely "beyond one's control"?
Therein lies the rub, so to speak.

Why are some races "in control" and of their "own control" rather than not? Would it matter if race were reversed with political power? Would the facts change? Would history be erased? Would history's crimes be forgiven or justified?
As I noted to AJ above...
iambiguous wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:46 pm How about this instead...

AJ and Satyr and Wizard [assuming they are not one and the same] commence an exchange here that revolves around this:
...if you do believe that "on average" your race is intellectually superior to and far, far less likely to commit crimes, steal or riot than other races and you were in a position of power in a community composed of different races, what would be permitted and what would not be permitted in regard to social, political and economic interactions? What behaviors would be encouraged/rewarded and what behaviors would be discouraged/punished? For example, would interracial marriages still be legal?

And how would you compare yourself [on race] to, say, those who practiced apartheid in South Africa and those who practiced extermination in Nazi Germany?
They agree it's time to stop "just talking" about race up in the intellectual, philosophical, theoretical, didactic, pedantic, etc., clouds and actually walk their talk given what, in regard to race, they construe to be the best of all possible human communities.

So, if you happen to be black or brown or yellow or red or one of these -- https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch ... ackgrounds -- what might you expect of them/from them in this community?
So, Mr. Wiggle22, let's assume that your own rooted existentially in dasein political prejudices above are reasonable. And you were able to walk the talk in the best of all human communities. What might those of a race other than your own expect from you?

Also, note how your own convictions here have little to do with the manner in which I construe the existential parameters of human identity in the is/ought world here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=176529

Re: Racism

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:42 am
by Wizard22
iambiguous wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 3:51 pmSo, Mr. Wiggle22, let's assume that your own rooted existentially in dasein political prejudices above are reasonable. And you were able to walk the talk in the best of all human communities. What might those of a race other than your own expect from you?

Also, note how your own convictions here have little to do with the manner in which I construe the existential parameters of human identity in the is/ought world here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=176529
If you're going to be rude and disrespectful, there's really no point continuing a dialogue with you.

Re: Racism

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:47 pm
by iambiguous
Mr. Wiggle22 wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:42 am
iambiguous wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 3:51 pmSo, Mr. Wiggle22, let's assume that your own rooted existentially in dasein political prejudices above are reasonable. And you were able to walk the talk in the best of all human communities. What might those of a race other than your own expect from you?

Also, note how your own convictions here have little to do with the manner in which I construe the existential parameters of human identity in the is/ought world here: https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=176529
If you're going to be rude and disrespectful, there's really no point continuing a dialogue with you.
Okay, Mr. Wiggle22, I suppose as long as your convictions regarding race are confined to philosophy forums, it is all just academic.

It's just that some who do walk the talk on race can be especially rude and disrespectful to those of different colors. Thus the reference to apartheid and to Nazi Germany.

Re: Racism

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:49 pm
by Iwannaplato
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:32 pm Note to Satyr: Initiate processes discussed previously.
I loved this. Suddenly in some kind of spy novel we are.

Re: Racism

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:38 am
by Gary Childress
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:47 pm An interesting interview with Renaud Camus.
Interesting interview. I would certainly say he is not an evil man, however, populations and groups do tend to migrate. It's happened since the beginning of time. It's nothing new (though I understand the anxiety and worry about it). We like to surround ourselves with people we can relate to and when that changes we tend to not like feeling alien to our native surroundings. I can personally attest to how unpleasant social alienation is. But it happened to the Mycenean Greeks when the Dorian Greeks moved in and then to the Dorians with the Macedonians came (or whatever, my history is admittedly rusty and incomplete but the fundamentals are there). The Romans, Persians, and most others have been through it. Humanity continues. Of course, rapid change is a concerning issue. Suddenly waking up to find your native town mostly inhabited by immigrants can be unsettling. I suppose the best answer to that is to pick up and move yourself to wherever most of your peers went to. Or you can hang around and slowly get to know the new kids on the block. They're humans too and humans have a tendency to rub off on each other. If all goes well, it's not a one-way street. It's a mutual exchange. Just don't bring guns with you everywhere unless you're looking to antagonize and keep things edgy and potentially hostile wherever you go. (My advice)

Re: Racism

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:22 am
by Alexis Jacobi
Interesting interview. I would certainly say he is not an evil man, however, populations and groups do tend to migrate.
Curious sentence. There is such a thing as migration -- and Camus is not an evil man. However, though not *evil* he may still be wrong. But let's hear some dime-store historiography and from that get our sense of how it should be settled ...
It's happened since the beginning of time. It's nothing new (though I understand the anxiety and worry about it). We like to surround ourselves with people we can relate to and when that changes we tend to not like feeling alien to our native surroundings. I can personally attest to how unpleasant social alienation is.
After the war France received tens of thousands of other Europeans, North Americans, and of course also North Africans, some Asians (Vietnam of course) and also Africans. The Europeans and North Americans, and even the Africans were all successfully, and beneficially, incorporated into French society and culture. There is a wide range of unusual and non-Gallic last names in France and these people made up and became the *France* that we know when we think of France.

The present wave of migration, about which a good percentage of France is concerned and which recently went on an extremely devastating rampage because a juvenile car thief was shot, is really a different ball of wax. It is more an issue of incompatibility of cultures. Perhaps because of the underpinning of Islam and other factors that create a social oil-and-water-don't-mix situation. Yet it is, as so many things are, labyrinthian and complex and cannot be assessed with superficial opinions. Some part of it could be compared to the gansta culture in the US which originates in Black society but also bleeds over into other cultural groups.
But it happened to the Mycenean Greeks when the Dorian Greeks moved in and then to the Dorians with the Macedonians came (or whatever, my history is admittedly rusty and incomplete but the fundamentals are there). The Romans, Persians, and most others have been through it. Humanity continues.

Blah blah blah. You are here spouting some opinions that you pretend have relevancy. But those truly evil people referred to indirectly will refuse to listen, or care, as they hold to their outmoded segregationist ideals. The merely bad might still be reached and perhaps they will consider the Mycenean Greeks and the Romans, Persians and whoever else. Yes, idiot, humanity does not cease (this was a brilliant observation) but if you could listen to what Camus is saying he notes, and with intelligent eloquence, that something important and valuable is being threatened. And what would that be Gary? Any idea at all?
Of course, rapid change is a concerning issue. Suddenly waking up to find your native town mostly inhabited by immigrants can be unsettling. I suppose the best answer to that is to pick up and move yourself to wherever most of your peers went to. Or you can hang around and slowly get to know the new kids on the block. They're humans too and humans have a tendency to rub off on each other.

First, immigration is a phenomenon that the State is capable of controlling and limiting. So proper and direct political actions are possibilities. And they are moral possibilities if one has the best interests of France as one's primary concern. There is a very strong political movement developing that will call for, and is calling for, reverse migration. It is political and it is also *democratic*. That is, it reflects a popular will growing stronger every day.

"Pick up and move yourself to wherever most of your peers went" would be, for anyone with even a mild sense of identity and patriotism, a form of sin. The new kids on the block may not want to be *known* -- not in the way you seem to mean. You fail I think to recognize that Camus is not merely a non-evil man but one with a distinct sense of what is good. Not only for himself but also for the future of his nation, the nation which he has a civil right to define as *his own*. What is motivating Camus died in you Gary a long time back. I do not so much mean in you as a person but in *your own people*.

Your largest issue, I am sure, is with that sense of genuine ownership. What the fuck could you say that you *own*? Like nothing. Therefore, I doubt that you could defend much. And it is that tone (weakness, vacillation) that is the primary note in your post.
If all goes well, it's not a one-way street. It's a mutual exchange. Just don't bring guns with you everywhere unless you're looking to antagonize and keep things edgy and potentially hostile wherever you go. (My advice)
If a man's asshole could talk I think it would chatter like you have chattered here. You have no idea what you are talking about. You know that you have no idea what you are talking about. And what you say is what a man without any level of genuine or relevant understanding would say.

But here's the thing: many people would say what you have said. It is a disease of the mind, a disease of the moral self.

How curious it is that in your case you are a man simply waiting to die. I wonder at times if your illness is a symptom of a larger, insidious, social illness?