Philosophy Now Forum

"And then there's Carleas. He lives in Washington D.C.!!"

If Putin blows up D.C. and Carleas with it, ILP will go down as a result, and that, as the greater good, would justify the entire war.

As the Boy Scouts insist: Be prepared!!

For nuclear war?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/us/p ... apons.html

U.S. Makes Contingency Plans in Case Russia Uses Its Most Powerful Weapons

'BRUSSELS — The White House has quietly assembled a team of national security officials to sketch out scenarios of how the United States and its allies should respond if President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia — frustrated by his lack of progress in Ukraine or determined to warn Western nations against intervening in the war — unleashes his stockpiles of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.

The Tiger Team, as the group is known, is also examining responses if Mr. Putin reaches into NATO territory to attack convoys bringing weapons and aid to Ukraine, according to several officials involved in the process. Meeting three times a week, in classified sessions, the team is also looking at responses if Russia seeks to extend the war to neighboring nations, including Moldova and Georgia, and how to prepare European countries for the refugees flowing in on a scale not seen in decades.

'Just a month ago, such scenarios seemed more theoretical. But today, from the White House to NATO’s headquarters in Brussels, a recognition has set in that Russia may turn to the most powerful weapons in its arsenal to bail itself out of a military stalemate.

'Senator Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat who heads the Armed Services Committee, said on Wednesday that if Mr. Putin used a weapon of mass destruction — chemical, biological or nuclear — “there would be consequences” even if the weapon’s use was confined to Ukraine. Mr. Reed said radiation from a nuclear weapon, for instance, could waft into a neighboring NATO country and be considered an attack on a NATO member.'

With Putin, it's "is he a madman?" What's it with Biden? Some argue that, mentally, in his own way, he's a few sandwiches short of a picnic himself.

Tick, tick, rick...

Yeah, that's one political assessment. And I'm sure there are other conflicting ones.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:37 pmIts a fact.
It is easier to leave the Ukraine than it is to enter the UK despite the "we are all praying for you, and will do everything we can" Hot Air from the Great and the Good: ie the fat blond bastard.

My guess: You have your collection of facts, others have their own. Them being just as disdainful of yours as you are of theirs.

But, again, the facts right now are whatever Putin thinks they are.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:56 pm "And then there's Carleas. He lives in Washington D.C.!!"

If Putin blows up D.C. and Carleas with it, ILP will go down as a result, and that, as the greater good, would justify the entire war.

You won't get any argument from me about that.

On the other hand, as for Carleas: "Last visited: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:10 pm".

And it's his forum!!

I've been listening to a lot of nuclear war sabre-rattling stories lately..and it sounds like there is an agenda to cull the population, and that only the filthy rich people will survive world war III. All the poor dumb useless people will be wiped clean from the face of the earth as they are rapidly becoming too expensive to maintain their existence. Also there is an agenda to replace all the surviving human beings with robots because robots are less trouble, are more reliable and less maintenance, Insofar as they do not turn up for work with a hangover from their alcoholic benders from the night before. The robots actually turn up for work because they never get sick. So yeah, that's the future folks, you are being farmed by your governments,and the future doesn't include most of you misfits that do not fit the general mold. Except for the elite few, you are doomed..

Yeah, money talks,if you've got plenty of money, you have got a future, even it means living underground for a few years.

Personally, I do not care what happens, I'm longing for human extinction. If I manifest as a cat, I'll be cool with that, because for me, it's better to live not knowing anything, than to know anything at all.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:46 am

Yeah, that's one political assessment. And I'm sure there are other conflicting ones.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:37 pmIts a fact.
It is easier to leave the Ukraine than it is to enter the UK despite the "we are all praying for you, and will do everything we can" Hot Air from the Great and the Good: ie the fat blond bastard.

My guess: You have your collection of facts, others have their own. Them being just as disdainful of yours as you are of theirs.

But, again, the facts right now are whatever Putin thinks they are.

Don't be a turd.
The UK is happy to send bombs, but not happy to take refugees.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:11 am
The UK is not happy to take refugees.

Funny how the scary virus is rearing it's ugly head again in China..what a coincidence.

And now the entire population of Ukraine is spreading around the world like wildfire, god help us all.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:03 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:11 am
The UK is not happy to take refugees.

Funny how the scary virus is rearing it's ugly head again in China..what a coincidence.

And now the entire population of Ukraine is spreading around the world like wildfire, god help us all.

Seriously? I do not see a problem with spreading Ukrainians or ANY populations, since mixing promotes understanding.

And specifically. Both China and the Ukraine have far lower case rates for COVID than the UK and the US, so I have not problems with the refugees coming here.

What do you mean "co-incidence" BTW?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:41 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:03 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:11 am
The UK is not happy to take refugees.

Funny how the scary virus is rearing it's ugly head again in China..what a coincidence.

And now the entire population of Ukraine is spreading around the world like wildfire, god help us all.

Seriously? I do not see a problem with spreading Ukrainians or ANY populations, since mixing promotes understanding.

And specifically. Both China and the Ukraine have far lower case rates for COVID than the UK and the US, so I have not problems with the refugees coming here.

What do you mean "co-incidence" BTW?

I was just thinking about the time not so long ago when covid tests and subsequent quarantine was a priority before anyone entered another country. Now, it just seems like people are moving around all over the place, as if covid never existed, or that it's all not important anymore, even though it's supposed to be on the rise yet again.

I don't have a problem with migration either, when bombs are flying all over the place, it's the sensible thing to do, to get the hell out of hell.

Bye the way, I'm all for human extinction. I'm also aware that most people enjoy living, and I have no problem with their choices. I just do not like being alive myself. What I want, is not up to me anyway, only nature herself will decide if humans become extinct or not, just like nature did with the dinosaurs.

By coincidence, I mean why now when it's not really flu season, or why is it that it is the end of flu season that the infections are rising again.

"sounds like there is an agenda to cull the population, and that only the filthy rich people will survive world war III. All the poor dumb useless people will be wiped clean from the face of the earth as they are rapidly becoming too expensive to maintain their existence."

Sorta, but remember that capitalism needs an abundant supply of laborers to sustain itself, so if it wiped out large populations, it would jeopardize its own existence.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:59 pm "sounds like there is an agenda to cull the population, and that only the filthy rich people will survive world war III. All the poor dumb useless people will be wiped clean from the face of the earth as they are rapidly becoming too expensive to maintain their existence."

Sorta, but remember that capitalism needs an abundant supply of laborers to sustain itself, so if it wiped out large populations, it would jeopardize its own existence.

Robots, prom, robots will replace humans. Our movies predicted our future but we just thought.. Meh! those movies are just fictional stories...hahahahahaha!!! yeah, and so is the movie of real life.

Sometimes I feel like why am I here, what's the point, but then I think what's the fucking point of thinking that, because I can't die, I'm only going to keep popping aware again...albeit wearing a different outfit. Children of the POPcorn.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:11 am

iambiguous wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:46 am

Yeah, that's one political assessment. And I'm sure there are other conflicting ones.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:37 pmIts a fact.
It is easier to leave the Ukraine than it is to enter the UK despite the "we are all praying for you, and will do everything we can" Hot Air from the Great and the Good: ie the fat blond bastard.

My guess: You have your collection of facts, others have their own. Them being just as disdainful of yours as you are of theirs.

But, again, the facts right now are whatever Putin thinks they are.

Don't be a turd.
The UK is happy to send bombs, but not happy to take refugees.

Just out of curiosity, what makes someone a "turd" here? Is it not agreeing with what you construe the facts to be here? Or is it more about not agreeing with how the facts are to be understood when reacting to them?

In any event, my point is not what you or I think is "in fact" true here, but what Putin thinks.

And how that is rooted more in dasein than in anything able to be established [philosophically or otherwise] as that which all rational people are obligated to agree the facts are here.

That's what makes this all the most scary. If the absolute, objective facts could be established in regard to a justification for invading Ukraine -- that it's irrational and immoral -- Putin could be confronted with them. He might still reject them but at least we could argue that he rejected the facts.

But, instead, there are all manner of subjective assumptions that can be made regarding the historical, cultural, political, etc., components of the attack.

And no way [it seems to me] to establish the most rational frame of mind.

What might happen is NATO sanctions might put such a financial strain on some of Russia's biggest oligarchs that they might demand Putin to cool it and threaten to have him scrubbed if he doesn't.

From the NYT:

'Lulu Garcia-Navarro: Farah, I’d like to hear from you on that, too.

'Farah Stockman: People were absolutely freaking out when I was there. We’re protected by these two big oceans over here in the United States. The war still feels far away. But when you’re in Warsaw, you’re a 10-hour drive from Kyiv. If you’re in Berlin, it’s, what, 15 hours? It’s not far away. And people were really worried.

'I think the issue is, if Putin keeps threatening to use nuclear weapons, what can you do to respond? Because if you give in to the threats, he can just push NATO further and further away. He can keep demanding a buffer zone. He can keep expanding his power into Europe. And that’s unacceptable. But the opposite is also unthinkable, which is to respond in a way that will draw NATO in and literally have World War III.'

Yes, in America there is that psychological cushion: "We’re protected by these two big oceans over here in the United States."

Many American soldiers died in WWI and WWII. But the country iself was barely scratched. But WWIII? How can we not be equally vulnerable to nuclear warheads?

Go here for example: https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/worl ... b45e4.html

Then ponder this:

'Russia's nuclear threat to Ukraine and NATO brings to the fore what is known as the Tsar Bomba, a weapon of mass destruction that is 3,800 times more powerful than the nuclear bomb that hit Hiroshima in 1945.'

The explosion could be seen over 600 miles from the epicenter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... opic-step/

George Will

'A momentous milestone will soon be reached. Probably. The second use of atomic weapons occurred Aug. 9, 1945, three days after the first. On April 7, 28,000 days will have passed without a third. Maybe.

'This enormous achievement of postwar statecraft is difficult to celebrate because it is an absence of something. Besides, suddenly the most sophisticated of weapons might be used by a moral primitive because of Russia’s 10-thumbed mishandling of its conventional forces in Ukraine. The calamity of crossing the nuclear threshold might occur because, for example, a Russian convoy ran out of gas. Because of the Russian military’s incompetence regarding logistics and other military fundamentals.'

It's important to note here that Will describes himself as an "amiable, low-voltage atheist."

Why?

Because clearly if you truly do believe in God and you truly do believe that your fate "on the other side" includes immortality and salvation, how can you not view the possibility of a nuclear war with less concern than someone who believes that there is no other side at all, only oblivion?

So, yeah, he's got to be concerned about how far Pitin will take this thing.

How about you and your God?

Or, sure, we can become "philosophical" about it:

'Ukraine’s president illustrates Churchill’s axiom that courage is the most important virtue because it enables the others. Zelensky has stiffened the West’s spine, made something like victory seem possible, and made it impossible to blur the conflict’s moral clarity. So, a collateral casualty of the conflict is a 19th century German philosopher.

'Before sinking into insanity, Friedrich Nietzsche propounded a theory that still reverberates in the intelligentsia: There are no “facts,” “only interpretations.” That today’s war has been caused by one man’s wickedness is a fact. War is a harrowing means of embarrassing the faux sophisticates’ moral relativism, but by doing so this ill wind has blown some good.'

Try to even imagine Nietzsche's reaction to the world as it is today!!