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Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:38 pm
by Arising_uk
I see so you are now the accredited authority are you but have you any philosophy under those trousers as well. If so it should be no issue for you to state your beliefs about things and given what you asserted about Darwins' doubts I think it should be no great hardship for you to state what you think these doubts were, given you're a scientificcy kinda guy and have to have read his Origin of Species, nor to state if you believe in creationism or intelligent design, given that this is a thread about the Theory of Evolution.

Obviously if you are just an IDer troll I won't be holding my breath that a response will be forthcoming.

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:21 pm
by Walker
Troll. Ider. Creationist. Believer. Sounds like a sort of jargon meant to sum things up with as broad a brush as you can lift. A jar of labels. Philosophy jargon from your neck of the woods? Feynman would be shocked to know folks still strive to understand the word and not the thing and would gnash his teeth at thoughts of a Label God. To my knowledge the links are not fabricated. The analysis is spot on. The implications are obvious and cogently presented within a philosophical context. If an alternative world view clashes, put the training to the task via principle, rather than weak-minded discussion of folks.

Troll is even pre-teen. Billy Goats Gruff?

The broader scope is the philosophy of science.

:)

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:47 am
by Arising_uk
Yada, yada, yada from someone who cannot or refuses to answer a couple of simple questions about their beliefs and assertions upon a philosophy forum, troll that doth make you.

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:44 am
by Greta
I wouldn't worry about it, AUK. There is yet to be a valid criticism of the theory of evolution by theists because they 1) lack the knowledge and 2) evolution is obviously correct. So any "debate" that is not intensely technical, focusing on the details, on the topic will just be noise.

Everything evolves, not just life. It's an observation of the very obvious fact that everything in the universe changes all of the time. Those who have a problem with the concept of constant change, which includes biological evolution of species, have not thought things through at all.

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:11 pm
by Walker
Greta wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:44 am I wouldn't worry about it, AUK. There is yet to be a valid criticism of the theory of evolution by theists because they 1) lack the knowledge and 2) evolution is obviously correct. So any "debate" that is not intensely technical, focusing on the details, on the topic will just be noise.

Everything evolves, not just life. It's an observation of the very obvious fact that everything in the universe changes all of the time. Those who have a problem with the concept of constant change, which includes biological evolution of species, have not thought things through at all.
Generically speaking, that is, as a principle, one who is trying to pass himself off as a philosopher by insisting that the world outside of his own head should conform to his personal paradigm of belief, should worry, ‘specially when it comes to science, for not only is such a believer mired in a miasma of delusion, but he also continues to cling to what doesn’t work, harkening to Einstein’s definition of insanity. Such a mindset is better suited to tech. or bean counting, not inquiry.

Change = Change
Evolution = Evolution

Darwin’s Theory of Change
2 dimes + 1 nickel = 2 bits

Just because the weather changes every day does not mean the weather is evolving.

:lol:

Now, you have yourself a nice day.

:)

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:28 pm
by attofishpi
Arising_uk wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:06 pm
attofishpi wrote:What do you do when you know God exists? Do you then have to believe in Intelligent Design?
No, you can believe in a 'God' who started the initial creation of existence and then has left it well alone ever since.
Yes, and that has been pretty much my position since the 'knowing' - of course apart from its interference with the likes of me, not exactly left alone by this entity.

Since knowing the sage exists, and the other night he confirmed to me that he does live on Earth, confirmed with a heavy tap on my 'right' shoulder, he wouldn't divulge where he lives on the planet, and I have little doubt that he has access to the dimensions 'God' controls, I have been considering how long this sage person has been part of the whole God thing. ..that said - why would a God that I do believe formed itself as a man, perhaps Christ, why would it spend millions of years before the evolution of man? In other words, from what I have witnessed of this entity it could have formed man way before the dinosaurs etc.. and if it did form itself into a man form I don't think it would hang around that long - since lets face it, for a man to exist in any dimension for millions of years waiting for natural evolution to form mankind would be similar to waiting for eternity.
So, more recently I have been considering that - since God has control of ALL dimensions that make up our reality - that actually - the dinosaurs and lots of other critters now fossilised are part of the 'construct' that God formed for our little planet - why? To make it more interesting to consider history, to allow things to be considered such as evolution, to continue with one of (what I seem to feel is) its prime objectives - DOUBT in its existence.

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:35 pm
by Greta
Walker wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:11 pm
Greta wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:44 am I wouldn't worry about it, AUK. There is yet to be a valid criticism of the theory of evolution by theists because they 1) lack the knowledge and 2) evolution is obviously correct. So any "debate" that is not intensely technical, focusing on the details, on the topic will just be noise.

Everything evolves, not just life. It's an observation of the very obvious fact that everything in the universe changes all of the time. Those who have a problem with the concept of constant change, which includes biological evolution of species, have not thought things through at all.
Generically speaking, that is, as a principle, one who is trying to pass himself off as a philosopher by insisting that the world outside of his own head should conform to his personal paradigm of belief, should worry, ‘specially when it comes to science, for not only is such a believer mired in a miasma of delusion, but he also continues to cling to what doesn’t work, harkening to Einstein’s definition of insanity. Such a mindset is better suited to tech. or bean counting, not inquiry.

Change = Change
Evolution = Evolution

Darwin’s Theory of Change
2 dimes + 1 nickel = 2 bits

Just because the weather changes every day does not mean the weather is evolving.

:lol:

Now, you have yourself a nice day
I note that, aside from your creationism, you don't understand the difference between weather or climate, nor seemingly have any concept of time periods beyond that of human lives, and cannot appreciate that, yes, the climate of the Earth has certainly evolved, ie. changed and developed, which is what evolution means. Change and development. Check a dictionary. The theory only pertains to biology, but I personally think the definition should include geology and technology.

Whatever, forget it, you just don't have the chops in this area to do anything but waste time. I'd gain more traction trying to explain evolution to my dog.

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:41 pm
by Walker
No, you wrote that everything in the universe that changes, is evolution.
Greta wrote:Everything evolves, not just life.
The weather changes.

Therefore, you are asserting that changing weather is evolution.

And then you turn around and equate weather with climate to keep the narrative going, and project the ignorance upon me.

Weather = Weather
Climate = Climate

To straighten you out, I simply noted that weather does exist within the universe, and weather is not evolution (evolving).
Technical details not even required. Not even intense details.

For instance, the change denoted by Brownian motion is not evolution.

Now, do you have the chops to see the flabbiness of your reasoning?
Or were you just trying to be cute.


:wink:

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:20 am
by Walker
Arising_uk wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:47 am Yada, yada, yada from someone who cannot or refuses to answer a couple of simple questions about their beliefs and assertions upon a philosophy forum, troll that doth make you.
Here's some more yada yada for de deaf.

From a philosophical perspective, I was considering a series of questions leading to a question, rather than asking dopey questions of another. Come along for the stroll, if it's not a great imposition on one's time, since any fool can read a book about evolution.

The Theory of Evolution has been used as a basis for understanding the world. Based on the broad vision of the theory that correlates with observable fact, some folks have used the knowledge of organic processes to lessen suffering in the world.

For the lay, of what use is this knowledge other than as an understanding of another’s understanding?

For a daily instance of understanding of another’s understanding, it’s like stepping into an elevator. Someone, namely the licensed elevator inspector, understands elevators. You likely understand little more than how to punch a button, up or down. And if you do understand more, so what, if you aren’t a licensed inspector.

Maybe you know a bit about pulleys and motors and such, shafts and codes to stop only at certain floors, you may even know of tensile strength, but in the overall scope you don’t know like the inspector knows, for he or she or is licensed, for public safety by the community, and immune to influences other than duty.

How does the lay lessen suffering with knowledge of the theory? And, how does the field of philosophy qualify one as a licensed elevator inspector, and if you get the drifting metaphor, is the licensed philosophy inspector fidelius to duty?

For the fact is, unless you directly and personally use the knowledge to lessen suffering in the world, then the theory of evolution has a problem, and that’s folks. Why? Look at early progressivism, Sanger and the gang, and what that has led to, namely, a concept that fewer of the wrong kind of folks is good for the world. Just ask Iceland. In the meantime the population of the world increases. Logically, it will keep on increasing with the right kinds of people, so that there will be less suffering in the world.

How has that worked out since the idea was spawned back in the days of burgeoning science in the applied field of genetics, other than with GMO food, at which many shrink in horror while ignoring other horrors.

When you think about it, the theory of evolution, which is not a scientific law, is merely a golden idol. Unless it is directly being used to ease suffering in the world in the course of daily activities, then it is merely a distraction from what’s going on, like twiddling thumbs in simpler times when there was simply nothing else to do. And to pre-answer pedanticists, eating GMO food doesn’t count as a daily activity.

One might suspect that folks so interested in evoluuution as a conversational pastime might have an interest other than evolution that fills the lungs with the wind of pontification. If one is not a rep for Monsanto, then of what use is the pastime? Is sailing such a course the definition of a troll?

What do you think is going on with the world? If the edifice of civilization that is precariously balanced by the trust of the international, interconnected banking system should tip the wrong direction too fast and too far, like when a fat kid in N. Korea squats on the seesaw, of what use is this knowledge of Darwinism in preventing the tiptation that launches the skinny kid off the seesaw?

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:13 pm
by davidm
Does anyone know what Walker is talking about? Does Walker know?

The theory of evolution is supposed to solve the problem of North Korea, otherwise it’s just thumb-twaddling nonsense? What about quantum theory, or general relativity, or dozens of other theories? Are they all useless thumb-twaddling too unless they solve the problem of North Korea?

What is your elevator analogy all about? Do you even know?

You don’t think knowledge of evolutionary theory has eased human suffering? Are you effing serious? Do you know the meaning of the word “medicine”? Do you know there is even an entire field of medicine called evolutionary medicine?

I’d wager dollars to donuts that you personally are still alive today precisely because of knowledge of evolutionary theory.

What is your point about GMOs? Anyone who refuses to eat GMO food is utterly clueless. Since GMOs seem mainly to be a bugaboo of the political left, this just shows that many people on both ends of the political spectrum are scientifically illiterate.

Oh, and pro tip: the only valid meaning of “tiptation” that I can find is urban slang, to wit:
The mixture of fear and desire for a girl to let the guy "just put the tip in”.

Guy...Come on baby just let me put the tip in!

Girl...The tiptation is very strong but I’m waiting till I get married!
Walker is what one becomes, when one spends the bulk of one’s adult life gorging on Faux News.

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:02 pm
by Dubious
Could never figure what the difference is between GMO's which nature produces and those we produce except that the former is a random process while the latter is intentional knowing in advance the "purpose" of such modifications. If you want to eat in the future GMO's will no longer be an option the way it is now...if what the label says is true!

What's the worst that can happen except that you may live 20 years longer while regretting that you didn't croak 30 years earlier.

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:09 pm
by davidm
Dubious wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:02 pm Could never figure what the difference is between GMO's which nature produces and those we produce except that the former is a random process while the latter is intentional knowing in advance the "purpose" of such modifications.
Yup.

But it's because people don't understand what evolution is, that they don't get this simple point.

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:34 pm
by Arising_uk
Those who think that eating GMO's will harm them because of the genes are ignorant as if it was that easy to make genetic mods we'd be in heaven but those who think that allowing the private food industry to release such things with ease into the environment is not such a good thing and not so stupid I think.

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:55 am
by thedoc
davidm wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:09 pm
Dubious wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:02 pm Could never figure what the difference is between GMO's which nature produces and those we produce except that the former is a random process while the latter is intentional knowing in advance the "purpose" of such modifications.
Yup.

But it's because people don't understand what evolution is, that they don't get this simple point.
Humans have been producing GMO's for almost as long as there has been agriculture.

BTW, natural selection is not random, it is the result of random mutations and other factors, but the process itself is not random. The only purpose of natural selection is survival and reproduction, the organism must survive long enough to reproduce.

Re: The Theory of Evolution - perfect?

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:08 am
by Dubious
thedoc wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:55 am
davidm wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:09 pm
Dubious wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:02 pm Could never figure what the difference is between GMO's which nature produces and those we produce except that the former is a random process while the latter is intentional knowing in advance the "purpose" of such modifications.
Yup.

But it's because people don't understand what evolution is, that they don't get this simple point.
Humans have been producing GMO's for almost as long as there has been agriculture.

BTW, natural selection is not random, it is the result of random mutations and other factors, but the process itself is not random. The only purpose of natural selection is survival and reproduction, the organism must survive long enough to reproduce.
No one said natural selection was random; it cannot be random since its function is to cull those occurring random mutations to ensure that what survives reproduces...a miserable barbaric affair. Whoever coined the phrase "mother nature" didn't have a bloody clue!