Philosophy Now Forum

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 31, 2025 2:58 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 31, 2025 2:26 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 31, 2025 2:23 pm

LOL 'This one' just proved, once again, how beliefs blind people, absolutely.

And, once again, 'this one' resorts to about the only thing it can do, here, in "discussions", with me, and this is just resort to calling 'me' "a liar". Besides, of course, its continually attempt to ridicule and humiliate 'me'. Which has never ever worked, I will add.

But I'm not in a discussion with you. I'm just pointing out the fact that you butted in and started lying, because that's all you can do.

Okay, if 'this' is what you want to believe is true, then 'I' will leave 'you', to 'it'.

Let's see if you are able to do this time what you said God, and leave me to it.

This is so strange how this got off to an argument between Atla and Age. It is a sad distraction and takes away from the discussion at hand. What is going on here? 🫩

peacegirl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 12:51 pm This is so strange how this got off to an argument between Atla and Age. It is a sad distraction and takes away from the discussion at hand. What is going on here? 🫩

Hello peacegirl.

With all that’s happening I haven’t followed the thread, which makes a response rather interesting, don’t you think?

As an educated guess, I would wager that each is using a variety of tactics in an attempt to elicit thought and response from the other, and to clarify what the other is misinterpreting either deliberately or sincerely.

Tactics including:
- Asking for but refusing to accept clarification.
- Deliberate obtuseness by at least one party.
- Misinterpreting the other and responding to that.
- One or both perhaps dangling distractions such as personal insults, or negative interpretations of purposeful misrepresentations.
- Staying on topic.

Ideally for informal dialogue:
- One states an hypotheses, a premise, a notion, some commentary, etc.
- The other then states what they think the other is saying.
- Once what is being said is agreed upon by both, with both recognizing that this is the first step in a process towards clarity and maintaining that purpose exclusively, then a free-wheeling examination of the content by its merits and demerits can begin.

Thoughts?
- The ideal format sounds tedious, uncreative, plodding, lawyerly, however it will lead to clarifications that may even be unexpected and off topic, such as personal clarifications of what it is one is actually trying to accomplish with dialogue, here and now.
- This could lead to a discussion of a shared topic where each can safely assume that the other is considering the 5-Ws of writing before commenting.

AI, what are the 5-Ws?

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:15 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 12:51 pm This is so strange how this got off to an argument between Atla and Age. It is a sad distraction and takes away from the discussion at hand. What is going on here? 🫩

Hello peacegirl.

With all that’s happening I haven’t followed the thread, which makes a response rather interesting, don’t you think?

As an educated guess, I would wager that each is using a variety of tactics in an attempt to elicit thought and response from the other, and to clarify what the other is misinterpreting either deliberately or sincerely.

Tactics including:
- Asking for but refusing to accept clarification.
- Deliberate obtuseness by at least one party.
- Misinterpreting the other and responding to that.
- One or both perhaps dangling distractions such as personal insults, or negative interpretations of purposeful misrepresentations.
- Staying on topic.

Ideally for informal dialogue:
- One states an hypotheses, a premise, a notion, some commentary, etc.
- The other then states what they think the other is saying.
- Once what is being said is agreed upon by both, with both recognizing that this is the first step in a process towards clarity and maintaining that purpose exclusively, then a free-wheeling examination of the content by its merits and demerits can begin.

Thoughts?
- The ideal format sounds tedious, uncreative, plodding, lawyerly, however it will lead to clarifications that may even be unexpected and off topic, such as personal clarifications of what it is one is actually trying to accomplish with dialogue, here and now.
- This could lead to a discussion of a shared topic where each can safely assume that the other is considering the 5-Ws of writing before commenting.

AI, what are the 5-Ws?

If they were discussing something about this book and were in disagreement, I would be okay with that, but I don't think their disagreement had anything to do with the purpose of this thread. It is hard enough to try to explain a genuine discovery, and then to see people mock it, which influences everyone else to lose interest. Only a handful of people showed any interest at all because of how Atla turned on me. No more asking for clarification; no more questions; nothing. He just assumed that under the conditions described, conscience would still permit behavior that was unjustified. He was too quick to dismiss a 30-year work by calling me and the author naïve, or something to that effect. I thought philosophers knew better than to do jump to conclusions like this. Atla came to a premature conclusion based on how people act in today's world and that human beings will continue to hurt others regardless of any changes to the environment. I don't think he understood a word I wrote. He just couldn't conceive of a world where no one would desire to strike a first punch, so to speak, that was not provoked or not in retaliation

ATLA WROTE: I know why there won't be a drastic change, and this is again the main reason why imo the book is nonsense. As I said you and your father have no idea about people, psychology. The conscience of the average human, the guilt felt by the average human, is maybe half as strong or third as strong as you two imagine it. The paradoxical effect you talk about will be nowhere near enough to stop most people from committing crimes, dropping blame will more often than not just make things worse.

There is only one way, for any utopia first you'll have to make people's consciences a lot stronger (and also make them more intelligent btw):

There is only one way, for any utopia first you'll have to make people's consciences a lot stronger (and also make them more intelligent btw):

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Aug 30, 2025 4:01 am

Now that we have both Age and peacegirl here, I shall reveal how we could actually get a chance at the Golden Age of humanity. Get a chance at survival, really.

By increasing the average IQ of humans by 20-30 points, while also increasing their average EQ/empathethic ability by 20-30%. Using genetic engineering, gene expression modification, and other techniques.

That's it, that's the only way. Aside from that, all we can do is pray for a huge technological miracle, or maybe that aliens will save us, or maybe that God will intervene.

But reinterpreting blame, or learning Age's openness technique? Grow up.
After which we won't need any more grand utopistic program anyway. The whole thing about determinism and blame is largely irrelevant.

peacegirl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:48 pm

Interesting. In reading the quotes there, I think that conscience is still strong in most people for the simple reason that everyone knows right from wrong. However, the betrayal of conscience, especially irrevocable betrayal, is a significant cause of substance abuse. Maybe The Cause (which also has a cause). The big appetite for substances indicates a need, and medicating the betrayals is the need. The huge flow of illicit and prescription medications indicates a big need in a culture.

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 4:28 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 01, 2025 3:48 pm

Interesting. In reading the quotes there, I think that conscience is still strong in most people for the simple reason that everyone knows right from wrong. However, the betrayal of conscience, especially irrevocable betrayal, is a significant cause of substance abuse. Maybe The Cause (which also has a cause). The big appetite for substances indicates a need, and medicating the betrayals is the need. The huge flow of illicit and prescription medications indicates a big need in a culture.

Illicit drugs are just one way for people to quiet their existential angst and dissatisfaction with their lives. Most people do know the difference between right and wrong. The problem is the people who don’t care and will hurt others to get what they want if they have the opportunity.

Here is the link again for the first three chapters of Decline and Fall of All Evil for anyone who is able to keep their skepticism at bay long enough to carefully read without any premature judgment. This means putting their ideologies aside temporarily. I know this is hard to do because it seems impossible that we could achieve world peace with just a change in environment. But as these principles are put into practice (which involve the hurt done to others being permanently removed from the environment, and people no longer have to steal to survive or to live with the fear of losing their basic sustenance [self-preservation], and have great opportunities for improving their standard of living, you will see a great change take place. It's very difficult to even conceive how these changes along could produce such remarkable changes, but you have to give this author half a chance.

The problem is that people are refusing to give this man a chance to explain his findings without it being a cursory glance over. This is not the type of discovery that can be understood this way. If people want to buy the book after reading the first three chapters, you will need to click on the search bar at Amazon and type in the author's name, Seymour Lessans. The book won't show up otherwise. I'm trying to contact Amazon to get it corrected. I reduced the price to .99 for now. It's ridiculous, I know. It would take selling 1,500 books to make 5 cents. But I'm doing this to give people an opportunity to read the book without money getting in the way. If no one shows one bit of interest even with this low price and even though I have tried numerous times to keep a conversation going without people immediately throwing him under the bus (for no reason other than they don't believe it's possible), then this audience is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and they won't be receptive. The first thing people need in any discussion where something new is being introduced is to keep an open-mind and have the patience to hear the author out. So far, neither has been shown.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:s ... 10208355d4

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 12:46 pm Here is the link again for the first three chapters of Decline and Fall of All Evil for anyone who is able to keep their skepticism at bay long enough to carefully read without any premature judgment. This means putting their ideologies aside temporarily. I know this is hard to do because it seems impossible that we could achieve world peace with just a change in environment. But as these principles are put into practice (which involve the hurt done to others being permanently removed from the environment, and people don't have to steal to survive, or to live with the fear of losing their basic sustenance [self-preservation], you will see a great change take place. It's very difficult to even conceive how these changes along could produce such remarkable changes, but you have to give this author half a chance.

The problem is that people are refusing to give this man a chance to explain his findings without it being a cursory glance over. This is not the type of discovery that can be understood this way. If people want to buy the book after reading the first three chapters, you will need to click on the search bar at Amazon and type in the author's name, Seymour Lessans. The book won't show up otherwise. I'm trying to contact Amazon to get it corrected. I reduced the price to .99 for now. It's ridiculous, I know. It would take selling 1,500 books to make 5 cents. But I'm doing this to give people an opportunity to read the book without money getting in the way. If no one shows one bit of interest even with this low price and even though I have tried numerous times to keep a conversation going without people immediately throwing him under the bus (for no reason other than they don't believe it's possible), then this audience is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and they won't be receptive. The first thing people need in any discussion where something new is being introduced is to keep an open-mind and have the patience to hear the author out. So far, neither has been shown.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:s ... 10208355d4

you, once more, have completely and utterly missed the point, and thus you are also missing the mark, here.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:01 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 12:46 pm Here is the link again for the first three chapters of Decline and Fall of All Evil for anyone who is able to keep their skepticism at bay long enough to carefully read without any premature judgment. This means putting their ideologies aside temporarily. I know this is hard to do because it seems impossible that we could achieve world peace with just a change in environment. But as these principles are put into practice (which involve the hurt done to others being permanently removed from the environment, and people don't have to steal to survive, or to live with the fear of losing their basic sustenance [self-preservation], you will see a great change take place. It's very difficult to even conceive how these changes along could produce such remarkable changes, but you have to give this author half a chance.

The problem is that people are refusing to give this man a chance to explain his findings without it being a cursory glance over. This is not the type of discovery that can be understood this way. If people want to buy the book after reading the first three chapters, you will need to click on the search bar at Amazon and type in the author's name, Seymour Lessans. The book won't show up otherwise. I'm trying to contact Amazon to get it corrected. I reduced the price to .99 for now. It's ridiculous, I know. It would take selling 1,500 books to make 5 cents. But I'm doing this to give people an opportunity to read the book without money getting in the way. If no one shows one bit of interest even with this low price and even though I have tried numerous times to keep a conversation going without people immediately throwing him under the bus (for no reason other than they don't believe it's possible), then this audience is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and they won't be receptive. The first thing people need in any discussion where something new is being introduced is to keep an open-mind and have the patience to hear the author out. So far, neither has been shown.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:s ... 10208355d4

you, once more, have completely and utterly missed the point, and thus you are also missing the mark, here.

What mark have I utterly missed Age?

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:02 pm

Age wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:01 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 12:46 pm Here is the link again for the first three chapters of Decline and Fall of All Evil for anyone who is able to keep their skepticism at bay long enough to carefully read without any premature judgment. This means putting their ideologies aside temporarily. I know this is hard to do because it seems impossible that we could achieve world peace with just a change in environment. But as these principles are put into practice (which involve the hurt done to others being permanently removed from the environment, and people don't have to steal to survive, or to live with the fear of losing their basic sustenance [self-preservation], you will see a great change take place. It's very difficult to even conceive how these changes along could produce such remarkable changes, but you have to give this author half a chance.

The problem is that people are refusing to give this man a chance to explain his findings without it being a cursory glance over. This is not the type of discovery that can be understood this way. If people want to buy the book after reading the first three chapters, you will need to click on the search bar at Amazon and type in the author's name, Seymour Lessans. The book won't show up otherwise. I'm trying to contact Amazon to get it corrected. I reduced the price to .99 for now. It's ridiculous, I know. It would take selling 1,500 books to make 5 cents. But I'm doing this to give people an opportunity to read the book without money getting in the way. If no one shows one bit of interest even with this low price and even though I have tried numerous times to keep a conversation going without people immediately throwing him under the bus (for no reason other than they don't believe it's possible), then this audience is throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and they won't be receptive. The first thing people need in any discussion where something new is being introduced is to keep an open-mind and have the patience to hear the author out. So far, neither has been shown.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:s ... 10208355d4

you, once more, have completely and utterly missed the point, and thus you are also missing the mark, here.

What mark am I missing Age?

That what you are doing, here, leads to the rise and rise of all evil.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:03 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:02 pm

Age wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:01 pm

you, once more, have completely and utterly missed the point, and thus you are also missing the mark, here.

What mark am I missing Age?

That what you are doing, here, leads to the rise and rise of all evil.

You have not only failed by saying I missed the point, but you have failed to show me where I have missed the point. This is confirmation bias in all of its glory. I can almost predict that you read nothing, or read nothing with the aim of proving him wrong that disqualifies you from the very beginning of this test.

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:47 pm

Age wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:03 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:02 pm

What mark am I missing Age?

That what you are doing, here, leads to the rise and rise of all evil.

You have not only failed by saying I missed the point, but you have failed to show me where I have missed the point. This is confirmation bias in all of its glory. I can almost predict that you read nothing, or read nothing with the aim of proving him wrong that disqualifies you from the very beginning of this test.

Once more your assumptions, and beliefs, are leading you completely astray, here.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:03 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:47 pm

Age wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:03 pm

That what you are doing, here, leads to the rise and rise of all evil.

You have not only failed by saying I missed the point, but you have failed to show me where I have missed the point. This is confirmation bias in all of its glory. I can almost predict that you read nothing, or read nothing with the aim of proving him wrong that disqualifies you from the very beginning of this test.

Once more your assumptions, and beliefs, are leading you completely astray, here.

What assumptions and beliefs are you referring to. Be specific without interjecting you own beliefs. You can't tell me because he had no assumptions or beliefs that would have negated his objective observations. Can’t you see that you’re placing the cart before the horse?

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:24 pm

Age wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:03 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 1:47 pm

You have not only failed by saying I missed the point, but you have failed to show me where I have missed the point. This is confirmation bias in all of its glory. I can almost predict that you read nothing, or read nothing with the aim of proving him wrong that disqualifies you from the very beginning of this test.

Once more your assumptions, and beliefs, are leading you completely astray, here.

What assumptions and beliefs? You can't tell me because you don't know Age.

Once again you have just shown another assumption and belief of yours, which are leading you completely astray. Do, there is one. Another one is you assume and believe that 'I' want to prove 'that one' wrong.

Are you "janis rafael"?

If yes, then would you like to have a chat in private message, or just continue, here, in public?

Age wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:32 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:24 pm

Age wrote: ↑Tue Sep 02, 2025 2:03 pm

Once more your assumptions, and beliefs, are leading you completely astray, here.

What assumptions and beliefs? You can't tell me because you don't know Age.

Once again you have just shown another assumption and belief of yours, which are leading you completely astray. Do, there is one. Another one is you assume and believe that 'I' want to prove 'that one' wrong.

Are you "janis rafael"?

Yes, I never hid this.

Age wrote:If yes, then would you like to have a chat in private message, or just continue, here, in public?

It doesn't matter to me. What matters is that you understand what he was trying to explain.