For the discussion of all things philosophical.
https://canzookia.com/
Just about sums your approach up Nick, all based upon your religion that believes Man is flawed by original sin and cannot comprehend that a natural attraction to truth might be a pleasure.Nick_A wrote:...
“does there exist in man a natural attraction to truth and to the struggle for truth that is stronger than the natural attraction to pleasure?”
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The only ones who don't have "opinions" and suchlike thought variables are those already certain about everything. Opinions usually operate as temporary placeholders in a normal mind; they are unavoidable and thoroughly expendable when proven wrong or without credibility.Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:44 amYou want to establish your own opinions. As you wrote we are all limited by our prejudices so establish our opinions as expressions of our prejudices and conditioning. We may think independently but not impartially. The result is the battle over opinions which dominates cave life.
To repeat, Albert was a great physicist but in most other respects a paperback thinker. For real mental meat, I'd go elsewhere. I know this sounds like blasphemy to most but his “other” gifts would have been of no interest to anyone if it weren't for his being acknowledged the greatest scientist of the 20th century...which I only half agree with. The shine of one accomplishment lends substance to others much more mundane. It's what fame does!Einstein is suggesting a quality of intellect unrelated to independent thought which opens the mind and heart to the truth of the human condition in relation to our conscious potential.
Verifying the human condition as it exists within us is by definition not blind belief. Blind belief as witnessed in secularism is the assumption that human meaning and purpose is revealed through thought. Consider how Hannah Arendt in the book “The Life of the Mind” explains the relationship between truth and meaning, between knowing and thinking,” and makes a powerful case for the importance of that line in the human experience.
Quote:
Thinking aims at and ends in contemplation, and contemplation is not an activity but a passivity; it is the point where mental activity comes to rest. According to traditions of Christian time, when philosophy had become the handmaiden of theology, thinking became meditation, and meditation again ended in contemplation, a kind of blessed state of the soul where the mind was no longer stretching out to know the truth but, in anticipation of a future state, received it temporarily in intuition… With the rise of the modern age, thinking became chiefly the handmaiden of science, of organized knowledge; and even though thinking then grew extremely active, following modernity’s crucial conviction that I can know only what I myself make, it was Mathematics, the non-empirical science par excellence, wherein the mind appears to play only with itself, that turned out to be the Science of sciences, delivering the key to those laws of nature and the universe that are concealed by appearances……….....
You make assertions about others that you cannot possibly know! Your mentality is restricted to only what you choose to know or believe...and if you don't know THAT or fail to grasp it then you are certainly in no position to talk about "letting truth enter"!Those like you and Greta are so caught up in arguing details to justify your opinions that you no longer sense the value of conscious contemplation, of letting go to experience that which reconciles opinions rather than arguing and let truth enter.
Modern education trains one to make a living. That is its function. You’re not going to become a doctor, scientist, accountant or even a bureaucrat by studying Simone. If your spirit is killed by education then there is something profoundly wrong with your spirit and can’t be trusted to understand the writings of the type you mention.Curious how the relationship between truth and meaning is obvious to those like Jacob Needleman, Simone, Einstein, Basarab Nicolescu, Hannah Arendt, and others but for the majority and especially in modern education it is considered irrelevant since the state will provide meaning for its citizens. Classic spirit killing.
A very interesting subject is intuition. It seems to be an inherent human quality allied with imagination though I’m certain other higher mammalians also have it. It’s an evolutionary inheritance and like evolution its results can never be guaranteed. As with the Norse god of fire Loge, intuition is fickle either working for you or against. It can save you or kill you. In desperate situations when reason is without solution, it’s indispensable. But it can also mislead. There is no obligation for it to operate as a truth generator.These people I’ve mentioned don’t tell you what to think but to make clear what the power of reason includes. It is denied as is normal for cave life but we are gifted with these open minded individuals who have opened to the experience of meaning and invite other seekers of truth to rise above the virtual eternal battle over opinions and open to understanding acquired through the personal experience of intuition.
That's all the reality we can have. Take it or leave it.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:05 amIf this was the case then how would you know there was a 'real' reality?
The real reality has no concept of itself...this is not-knowing knowing.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:05 amIf this was the case then how would you know there was a 'real' reality?
Nothing does not own any thing ..it is everything.
...those in absolute poverty know exactly what you're saying! Blessed are the poor!
...So true! Whenever I crave company I always look in the mirror. I confess to feeling completely gratified when shaving!All one, alone with it's reflection...in the image of it's imageless aloneness.... Apparently two, but not two, alone, yet not alone.
...well, at least for a 3rd of the day anyways! The "else-where's" are amazing and so is the company!!Never not here.
...a lesson I learned from the very beginning! I started early not having anything so as not to lose it later.Can't lose what you never lost.
...again true, amazing!! Here is where I am even if I move my "here" over there!Can't get there from here...there is only here.
Not what I asked, what I asked waas given what you say how do you know there is a 'real' reality?Dontaskme wrote:The real reality has no concept of itself...this is not-knowing knowing. ...
Meaningless.All knowing is sourced in not-knowing.
This would make a good discussion. Is the black horse in Plato's Charioteer allegory really the problem or is the inability of the charioteer and the white horse to appreciate its glory really the proof of objective human ignorance? You will defend the black horse and its drives to unify truth and personal pleasure and I will defend the attraction of the white horse to the objective truth beyond the limitations of our senses that our heart is called to and our consciousness can be made aware of.Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:01 amJust about sums your approach up Nick, all based upon your religion that believes Man is flawed by original sin and cannot comprehend that a natural attraction to truth might be a pleasure.Nick_A wrote:...
“does there exist in man a natural attraction to truth and to the struggle for truth that is stronger than the natural attraction to pleasure?”
...
No. I am respecting the value of the contradiction which cannot be reconciled by another opinion.The only ones who don't have "opinions" and suchlike thought variables are those already certain about everything. Opinions usually operate as temporary placeholders in a normal mind; they are unavoidable and thoroughly expendable when proven wrong or without credibility.
Don't kid yourself that your views though presented with the granite certainty of ultimate truth are nothing more than opinions themselves.
This thread is about intuition necessary for cave man to become the cosmic man that doesn’t require more knowledge but the conscious ability to reconcile contradiction where both X and Y are true. There is nothing wrong with more information but when no more is helpful, then a higher quality of intellect is necessary.All those so certain in their missionary zeal of possessing truth have immunized themselves against any further thought sequels. Even when they popup autonomously these extensions are immediately eradicated as viral memes against the sanctity of your fixed beliefs...like crashing a moped against a cliff.
I have never read either you or Greta arguing from the position of wholeness involuting into fragments of the whole. If you don’t all you are capable of is arguing details. Wholeness doesn’t exist for you.Those like you and Greta are so caught up in arguing details to justify your opinions that you no longer sense the value of conscious contemplation, of letting go to experience that which reconciles opinions rather than arguing and let truth enter.
You make assertions about others that you cannot possibly know! Your mentality is restricted to only what you choose to know or believe...and if you don't know THAT or fail to grasp it then you are certainly in no position to talk about "letting truth enter"!
Truth doesn’t come to those who have already customized it to their own preferences ...which also explains why any views that don’t conform are immediately trashed. It’s these severe single-minded reactions that are most inimical to logic and whatever truth it may support.
This is the hypothesis. You use inductive reason to argue parts. I am using deductive reason to find the means to verify the hypothesis. I don’t deny the value of inductive reason and see no reason why you should deny the value of deductive reason“ A human being is a part of a whole, called by us “universe”, a part limited in time and space.
He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest… a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.
This delusion is a kind of prison us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us.
Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and whole of nature in its beauty.” Einstein
Yes, it is excellent for training automatons but how about objective character education? It doesn’t exist and character building is defined by the whims of the state doomed to hypocrisy.Modern education trains one to make a living. That is its function. You’re not going to become a doctor, scientist, accountant or even a bureaucrat by studying Simone. If your spirit is killed by education then there is something profoundly wrong with your spirit and can’t be trusted to understand the writings of the type you mention.
I have attempted to verify the truths of my beliefs through efforts to consciously “know thyself.” What efforts have you made to verify the truth of your denial of any quality of consciousness greater than yourself?As summarized in all your quotes you mindlessly follow the road map others have charted. You don’t think for yourself but simply accept. Even if an actual truth were conveyed by such means you remain a shallow “follower” of those who do the actual thinking whether or not it conforms to any reality. You imagine there can be no sequel to their thoughts. Such hero-worship is nauseous to those who attempt to process information and not merely accept it as the dead end of a final truth.
If the truth be known it would reveal itself cold as ice which we strive to make more palatable with the ideals that serve our existence...meaning, what’s real for us are the ideals we serve as an existential necessity.
Are you saying your 'God' deliberately keeps us ignorant? Figures.Nick_A wrote:...
This would make a good discussion. Is the black horse in Plato's Charioteer allegory really the problem or is the inability of the charioteer and the white horse to appreciate its glory really the proof of objective human ignorance? ...