I am an Islamophobe. If you are not, you might not be a moral person.

[Harbal]

You're free to think as you please, of course. Everybody is.

Yes but I suspect it wouldn't be so if you had your way.

But that doesn't mean everybody is right just because they think it.

It's not so much about me thinking I'm right, it's more about knowing that you're wrong.

Think it over, and you'll see.

The more I think it over the more I'm sure I'm right about you.

[Seleucus]

Pretty nice short documentary here about the Abbasid's as facilitators of intercultural exchange (especially Greek-Persian who were now united and no longer locked in eternal war). Goes on to explain the rise of the rationalist Mu'tazila, I haven't watched the whole thing yet, continues into a part 2 which presumably will cover the suppression of philosophy and the rise of dogmatism.

On CaspianReport channel on YouTube,

"Science in Islam, Part 1: Free will "

Actually "Part 2: Inquisition" covers up to the colapse into dogmatism. Part 3 not yet released is on the post-collapse, stay tuned!

[Immanuel Can]

You're free to think as you please, of course. Everybody is.

Yes but I suspect it wouldn't be so if you had your way.

Not so. It's one of the things in which I most firmly believe.

You may get me to take issue with your viewpoint in regard to its truth or falsehood, its warrant or its legitimacy; but never with your right to have a viewpoint.

[Science Fan]

Arising UK proved my point. Nothing like condoning the atrocities of Russia while making up fictional accusations against the USA. The USA did not gun down peaceful demonstrators in Syria --- Assad did that. If the USA offered some assistance to people who were being gunned down by Assad, that does not make the USA the bad guys. Russia's intervention has stepped up the bloodshed considerably, as well as a propaganda war against the refugees it is creating. Yet, no condemnation against Russia, but instead, some lame argument regarding an alleged moral equivalence with the USA. Anyone who claims that they are concerned about refugees in Syria who is unwilling to condemn Russia is not really concerned about the refugees. In fact, by taking the focus of blame off of Russia, one is complicit in Russia's crimes against the Syrian people.

[Greatest I am]

Personally, I tend to be sympathetic to religion. I am just pointing out that from what I have observed the arguments used against Islam are being applied to religion generally.

Indeed. Because there is not much difference between Gods.

My next O.P.

Yahweh. Obey like a slave. Allah. Submit like a slave. Do you see a difference?

I find it strange that all-powerful Gods have a need or want of slaves, but if slavery is all that Christians and Muslims aspire to after death, I am sure glad I am a Gnostic Christian and see Jesus as not being of the same ilk as Christian and Muslim slave aspirers. Jesus said he came to serve man but I guess that he is not like his father. Thank God for that. 

In the arena of cultural evolution, the secular and humanist West has decided that Jesus wins the God Wars. Christians have gone along with revering the nice (sort of) God, Jesus, instead of his poor satanic father.

If Muslims do not also go along with that archetypal prophet and savior Jesus, as being more authoritative than Muhammad, they will not survive and the religion will die.

This is inevitable as the world will not allow open religious slavery, --- which is what Muslim and Christian ideologies promote.

No?

Regards
DL

On Muslim slavery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUOSIhg86oc
On archetypal Jesus. https://clyp.it/lqeu3cku

Londoner.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

Why would you want to sympathise with such immoral religions when, FMPOV, you should be condemning them?

Regards
DL

[Harbal]

You seem quite young and will learn how to speak intelligently with more practice.

Thank you, I appreciate your confidence in me.

[Arising_uk]

Arising UK proved my point. Nothing like condoning the atrocities of Russia while making up fictional accusations against the USA. ...

Show me where I condoned what Russia is doing?

Show me what was fiction in my account?

The USA did not gun down peaceful demonstrators in Syria --- Assad did that. If the USA offered some assistance to people who were being gunned down by Assad, that does not make the USA the bad guys. ...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... propaganda

Russia's intervention has stepped up the bloodshed considerably, as well as a propaganda war against the refugees it is creating. ...

You mean you are unhappy that they are killing the one's you support.

Yet, no condemnation against Russia, but instead, some lame argument regarding an alleged moral equivalence with the USA. Anyone who claims that they are concerned about refugees in Syria who is unwilling to condemn Russia is not really concerned about the refugees. In fact, by taking the focus of blame off of Russia, one is complicit in Russia's crimes against the Syrian people.

Who said I gave a shit about the refugees in Syria?

If any Russian comes on this forum and makes the case that they are doing what they do out of moral righteousness they'll get the same response I'm giving you. Namely that they are blowing it out of their arse.

[Londoner]

Arising UK proved my point. Nothing like condoning the atrocities of Russia while making up fictional accusations against the USA. The USA did not gun down peaceful demonstrators in Syria --- Assad did that. If the USA offered some assistance to people who were being gunned down by Assad, that does not make the USA the bad guys. Russia's intervention has stepped up the bloodshed considerably, as well as a propaganda war against the refugees it is creating. Yet, no condemnation against Russia, but instead, some lame argument regarding an alleged moral equivalence with the USA. Anyone who claims that they are concerned about refugees in Syria who is unwilling to condemn Russia is not really concerned about the refugees. In fact, by taking the focus of blame off of Russia, one is complicit in Russia's crimes against the Syrian people.

To play devil's advocate, I think that Assad would say that although some of the demonstrators were peaceful, the demonstrations were the start of an armed revolution organised by Saudi Arabia and others (including the USA). Since the 'peaceful demonstrators' were able to fight back so successfully and so quickly it was probably a sign that this was true.

The backing of the rebels by regimes that do not themselves tolerate any form of dissent makes one question whether any regime that overthrew Assad would be any better - this even before we had the involvement of groups like IS, which are certainly worse than Assad. So, there are no 'goodies' in this conflict.

As I wrote before, the reason we might welcome Russian intervention is that it has some hope of breaking a stalemate that might otherwise last indefinitely. The fighting will never stop if both sides think (probably rightly) that if the other side wins they will be exterminated. Whereas if an outside power, like Russia, guarantees that Assad's side will not lose (but not win outright either) there is hope that there can be a negotiated settlement.

Of course Russia is primarily acting to further its own interests, but so are all the nations with a hand in this mess.

[Seleucus]

If nothing else, at least Islam produced Haddad Alwi and Sulis. Hard to hear them without a tear coming to the eye. They're like the redemption of Islam from a thousand years of darkness.

This guy is like the Marcel Marlier of Islamic pop music. Just reading up a little more about this him, looks like his wife passed in 2005, a reasonable guess that is what's behind the unique genre of his musical career.

[Seleucus]

I wonder if what really throws a lot of people about Islam is the close racial relationship between Semitics and Indo-European people? Especially in Iran, the Levant, or Turkey where the people are largely genetically the same as Europeans. It's hard for Westerners to fathom people who look just like them cutting off hands and believing in superstitious nonsense, if it were Orientals or Africans it would make sense, but these Near Easterners and North Africans, it's like a surreal parallel universe.

[Arising_uk]

I wonder if what really throws a lot of people about Islam is the close racial relationship between Semitics and Indo-European people? Especially in Iran, the Levant, or Turkey where the people are largely genetically the same as Europeans. It's hard for Westerners to fathom people who look just like them cutting off hands and believing in superstitious nonsense, ...

No it's not. As we've done the same in our past. What some of us find hard is that anyone believes in 'God's' at all nowadays.

if it were Orientals or Africans it would make sense, but these Near Easterners and North Africans, it's like a surreal parallel universe.

What a little racist you are.

All this talk of Islam but how about the Hindu? Fast becoming a nasty piece of work in India.

[Seleucus]

I wonder if what really throws a lot of people about Islam is the close racial relationship between Semitics and Indo-European people? Especially in Iran, the Levant, or Turkey where the people are largely genetically the same as Europeans. It's hard for Westerners to fathom people who look just like them cutting off hands and believing in superstitious nonsense, ...

No it's not. As we've done the same in our past. What some of us find hard is that anyone believes in 'God's' at all nowadays.

if it were Orientals or Africans it would make sense, but these Near Easterners and North Africans, it's like a surreal parallel universe.

What a little racist you are.

All this talk of Islam but how about the Hindu? Fast becoming a nasty piece of work in India.

It's kind of like when you grew up with someone, and then you see them again after they joined a weird cult. That's probably how a lot of Western people feel when they look at pictures of Iran before the revolution.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Arising UK proved my point. Nothing like condoning the atrocities of Russia while making up fictional accusations against the USA. The USA did not gun down peaceful demonstrators in Syria --- Assad did that. If the USA offered some assistance to people who were being gunned down by Assad, that does not make the USA the bad guys. Russia's intervention has stepped up the bloodshed considerably, as well as a propaganda war against the refugees it is creating. Yet, no condemnation against Russia, but instead, some lame argument regarding an alleged moral equivalence with the USA. Anyone who claims that they are concerned about refugees in Syria who is unwilling to condemn Russia is not really concerned about the refugees. In fact, by taking the focus of blame off of Russia, one is complicit in Russia's crimes against the Syrian people.

Classic deflection. The US, with help from its little bitch GB, is responsible for the mess in
the ME TODAY. Does 'WMD's ring any bells? 11/9? Revenge invasion against the
weakest target? Aww. Poor widdle USA. Nobody loves you. I haven't seen Russia
taking the position of the moral standard-bearer of the planet. It doesn't play
the policeman of the world. No one's saying it hasn't done shit, but it doesn't
even come within hooey of the mess that the US has made-- and it just keeps snowballing.
For someone whose favourite word seems to be 'fallacy' you certainly take the concept to a whole new art form.

[Philosophy Explorer]

Arising UK proved my point. Nothing like condoning the atrocities of Russia while making up fictional accusations against the USA. The USA did not gun down peaceful demonstrators in Syria --- Assad did that. If the USA offered some assistance to people who were being gunned down by Assad, that does not make the USA the bad guys. Russia's intervention has stepped up the bloodshed considerably, as well as a propaganda war against the refugees it is creating. Yet, no condemnation against Russia, but instead, some lame argument regarding an alleged moral equivalence with the USA. Anyone who claims that they are concerned about refugees in Syria who is unwilling to condemn Russia is not really concerned about the refugees. In fact, by taking the focus of blame off of Russia, one is complicit in Russia's crimes against the Syrian people.

Classic deflection. The US, with help from its little bitch GB, is responsible for the mess in
the ME TODAY. Does 'WMD's ring any bells? 11/9? Revenge invasion against the
weakest target? Aww. Poor widdle USA. Nobody loves you. I haven't seen Russia
taking the position of the moral standard-bearer of the planet. It doesn't play
the policeman of the world. No one's saying it hasn't done shit, but it doesn't
even come within hooey of the mess that the US has made-- and it just keeps snowballing.
For someone whose favourite word seems to be 'fallacy' you certainly take the concept to a whole new art form.

My oh my. Trying to knock my great country again. It's interesting how VT knocks a world power such as GB calling it America's "little bitch" while VT can't even talk about her puny country that she's ashamed to name (and makes terrible hamburgers ). "Poor widdle USA. Nobody loves you." If by nobody, you're referring to yourself, I certainly agree. Russia hasn't done shit? Stalin ranks right up there with Hitler as a tyrant who has killed off millions of his people. Russia has illegally annexed the Ukraine. Russia has interfered with US elections. Russia had illegally put missiles inside of Cuba to use against the US.

PhilX

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Arising UK proved my point. Nothing like condoning the atrocities of Russia while making up fictional accusations against the USA. The USA did not gun down peaceful demonstrators in Syria --- Assad did that. If the USA offered some assistance to people who were being gunned down by Assad, that does not make the USA the bad guys. Russia's intervention has stepped up the bloodshed considerably, as well as a propaganda war against the refugees it is creating. Yet, no condemnation against Russia, but instead, some lame argument regarding an alleged moral equivalence with the USA. Anyone who claims that they are concerned about refugees in Syria who is unwilling to condemn Russia is not really concerned about the refugees. In fact, by taking the focus of blame off of Russia, one is complicit in Russia's crimes against the Syrian people.

Classic deflection. The US, with help from its little bitch GB, is responsible for the mess in
the ME TODAY. Does 'WMD's ring any bells? 11/9? Revenge invasion against the
weakest target? Aww. Poor widdle USA. Nobody loves you. I haven't seen Russia
taking the position of the moral standard-bearer of the planet. It doesn't play
the policeman of the world. No one's saying it hasn't done shit, but it doesn't
even come within hooey of the mess that the US has made-- and it just keeps snowballing.
For someone whose favourite word seems to be 'fallacy' you certainly take the concept to a whole new art form.

My oh my. Trying to knock my great country again. It's interesting how VT knocks a world power such as GB calling it America's "little bitch" while VT can't even talk about her puny country that she's ashamed to name (and makes terrible hamburgers ). "Poor widdle USA. Nobody loves you." If by nobody, you're referring to yourself, I certainly agree. Russia hasn't done shit? Stalin ranks right up there with Hitler as a tyrant who has killed off millions of his people. Russia has illegally annexed the Ukraine. Russia has interfered with US elections. Russia had illegally put missiles inside of Cuba to use against the US.

PhilX

Can you read? I said no one is saying Russia hasn't done shit, or is that sentence too structurally complex for you? Most countries have 'done shit', but no one comes close to equaling the turds that your 'great country' has excreted in terms of size and smelliness. Russia isn't shoving its culture down the throats of everyone on the planet (and it actually HAS a culture), or destroying the English language. It hasn't used atomic weapons. It doesn't claim to be morally superior to everyone else. Its military spending is a pittance compared to the US. Your 'great country' is rapidly destroying the planet, and you morons are so blind, brainwashed and in love with yourselves that you will go to your graves saying 'We are the greatest. Everyone loves us..wah,wah, wah......'