Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:23 pm**

thedoc wrote:

This just verifies that you (Arising_uk) have no understanding of Christianity, so further comments from you can be totally disregarded.

What makes you think Arising_uk needs to understand your religion the way you do? Can you say 'elitist' mentality?

Posted: **Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:53 pm**

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
thedoc wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote: 1) Prove it.
2) Now tell me how I am supposed to know God's Will?
1) I believe it, that is proof enough.
2) You already know it, you just don't seem to recognize that it is from God.
In 1) What is "it"?
In 2) talking cryptically won't win any arguments, you simply are making mine.

1) You asked for proof of "it", so you define "it".
2) why should I try to win an argument, I'm not here to fight. I'll let that for you.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/it

Posted: **Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:57 pm**

uwot wrote: As you say though, there are passages in the bible that exhort people to do terrible things. Frankly, I think religion would be better off without books altogether.

Well, that is the beauty part of this particular book imo, it is written in a way to get to the heart of a Christian's heart. Lol

If the Christians heart is pure, like jesus, then there is no other way to understand the bible except for keeping in mind the 10 commandments. What a clever way for a God to know what is in a person's heart than to give him some commandments. ..then write a book with all types of stories..and sit back and see what the person does. Obviously, a person who actively mangles the meaning to promote racism or murder or whatever ugly thing a person can think up...is not understanding the point.

I kinda do this myself a little. ..what I will do is be myself. ..which is basically kind and sweet (I know...you wouldn't think that from the forum. ..but nonetheless. ..lol) and then just wait to see how people react. If they are dicks...they will take my kindness as weakness and try to take advantage of me or downright disrespect me...and that's when I unleash the dogs of hell...lol (you know...the person you see in the forum).

Anyway, not nice...but very entertaining to see the surprised look on their face...totally worth going to hell over! Lol

Posted: **Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:59 pm**

thedoc wrote:This just verifies that you (Arising_uk) have no understanding of Christianity, so further comments from you can be totally disregarded.

So you don't agree with the KJB and Matthews version of Christ's words?

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:01 am**

thedoc wrote:1) I believe it, that is proof enough. ...

Faith in a nutshell.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:02 am**

uwot wrote:Frankly, I think religion would be better off without books altogether.

Just like nation states would be better off without a written constitution. Once words are committed to print they pass out of the ownership of the writer and become the property of the reader.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:15 am**

thedoc wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
thedoc wrote:
1) I believe it, that is proof enough.
2) You already know it, you just don't seem to recognize that it is from God.
In 1) What is "it"?
In 2) talking cryptically won't win any arguments, you simply are making mine.
1) You asked for proof of "it", so you define "it".
2) why should I try to win an argument, I'm not here to fight. I'll let that for you.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/it

Run along and play somewhere else.
I assume you are giving up on trying to clarify THIS:"thedoc wrote:
Christians aren't expected to achieve God's will, just to try, there is a difference."
Without know what god's will is - "IT", you can't be expected to try to emulate "IT".

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:15 am**

Obvious Leo wrote:
uwot wrote:Frankly, I think religion would be better off without books altogether.

Just like nation states would be better off without a written constitution. Once words are committed to print they pass out of the ownership of the writer and become the property of the reader.

And open to a range of interpretations.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:46 am**

artisticsolution wrote:If the Christians heart is pure, like Jesus, then there is no other way to understand the bible except for keeping in mind the 10 commandments.

Smartest thing i've seen you post.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:39 pm**

Previously:

M: Re taking your test to a Christian forum - wouldn't that give you greater feedback and exchange of views, if all you want to talk to are Christians?
AS: Oh God no! I have no interest in this Christian insanity....everyone wanting to save everyone else's eternal soul! I have had enough to last a lifetime. And it is my turn for some peace here on earth before I die. I mean, shit...if I am going to hell, then I might as well have a few good years before I go! LOL

Are all Christian forums insane? Are all Christians raving mad evangelicals?

You want to talk about 'how to tell right from wrong' and use your test on Christians. Seems pretty straightforward. However - as usual - on a philo forum, straight off you have a battle on your hands. So, don't go tell me you're looking for peace. Especially, when you take on the likes of IC.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:16 pm**

marjoram_blues wrote:Previously:
M: Re taking your test to a Christian forum - wouldn't that give you greater feedback and exchange of views, if all you want to talk to are Christians?
AS: Oh God no! I have no interest in this Christian insanity....everyone wanting to save everyone else's eternal soul! I have had enough to last a lifetime. And it is my turn for some peace here on earth before I die. I mean, shit...if I am going to hell, then I might as well have a few good years before I go! LOL
Are all Christian forums insane? Are all Christians raving mad evangelicals?

You want to talk about 'how to tell right from wrong' and use your test on Christians. Seems pretty straightforward. However - as usual - on a philo forum, straight off you have a battle on your hands. So, don't go tell me you're looking for peace. Especially, when you take on the likes of IC.

The members on a Christian forum are usually too busy telling each other how wonderful they are. They already know what right and wrong are (it's in the book) so that question would fall flat. For real world answers and discussion, you need to post on a non religious forum.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:28 pm**

attofishpi wrote:
artisticsolution wrote:If the Christians heart is pure, like Jesus, then there is no other way to understand the bible except for keeping in mind the 10 commandments.
Smartest thing i've seen you post.

I don't think it's very smart, quite the contrary.
Back in the days, catholic orphanages raised children to be pure of Heart, not know any sin, not know anything at all but very basic things, so they were sheltered from society, whcih lead to utterly naive and gullible children when they were led out to society as adults, thus thus they were scammed and robbed very easily.

If you want to be a policeman, you need to be a little rought around the edges, not going too soft on bullies, but still being respectful. Same as a soldier, you need to kill people, to defend your boarders.
You need to be a skilled merchant in order to feed your flock, in modern terms you need to be greedy as Hell if you want a big society that can afford very expensive medical equipment and medicine.

..so this "pure of heart" is merely empty rethorics.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:46 pm**

artisticsolution wrote:You are fighting very hard in this thread, IC...over whether or not there is a God. Why do you care what others believe?

Have I been fighting? I thought I was merely responding, but okay.

I actually do care. I think I share a belief with you, actually (though I know you insist no one needs "believe" anything

) I believe you believe that people are best served by believing the truth. And as a corollary, I think you probably also believe that people stand to be harmed when they believe falsehoods. And if so, we're operating in the same assumption, but on different presuppositions -- you, that God does not exist, and I that He does.

Interestingly, if that is true, then both you and I are philosophically speaking, Realists as well as altruistic in our motivations. So we're closer in attitude than one might originally guess.

My motivation is really gratitude. God has been very good to me, and I feel a responsibility to speak up when people dismiss Him, just as you would probably be inclined to speak up if someone had been particularly kind to you, and others were dismissing him or her. So on that point too, I imagine you can understand, even if you don't perhaps share the same motivation.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:55 pm**

Obvious Leo wrote:Endlessly repeating the same mantra does not enhance its truth value. Atheism is not an affirmation, it is the absence of an affirmation.

"Absence of affirmation" means "no statement at all." So you're actually making a category mistake: you're thinking you can't assert or affirm something as a negative. But that's not true.

An "affirmation" is simply an assertion that some set of conditions is the case. So the assertion that we live in a universe not created or presided over by any Supreme Being is indeed an affirmation.

Try to contemplate a way in which Atheism can be true but that above statement is not. It just doesn't work.

Posted: **Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:20 pm**

Previously, As wrote:

I am trying to work within the perimeters of Christianity that I see here in America and the problem I can see with the rational of today's Christian who has difficulty with a moral compass...

...And this is why I did not want this thread to go in the direction of atheist vs. christian. atheists are beating a dead horse. But instead, to hold them accountable for what their bible says, is the ONLY way to get them to behave properly....i.e. stop being so mean toward their fellow man.

But then...sometimes that doesn't even work. I told one racist christian (Not a friend...this girl is an acquaintance who is off the charts non thinking mean christian). About what I told my sis...about if you go to heaven and can ask jesus, "Why did you make the f'n n-----?" And she didn't even contemplate her wrongness at all....(at least it gave my sister pause to think)...noooo...you know what this bitch said?! She said, "I wonder what God would say?" No...seriously...this is what she said. Dumbfounded, I said, "Um....I am guessing he would say, "for the same reason I made all my people". I'm sorry, but when faced with that kind of nonsense, I can't wrap my head around it enough to come up with a better reply...I have to admit, the meanness of racism in a christian still catches me off guard...cause I don't understand it.

God I am so sick of same ol same ol...is there not one original thinking Christian out there?
Hate to admit it atheists. ..but you are totally right about how you view Christians. ..they are incapable of moral scrutiny.
I have yet to find an honest one among them...and I am just discouraged.

M: Are you for real, AS? You are generalising again...and this does not help. Not all atheists view Christians the same way, and not all are 'totally right' about their view. And vice versa.
You have resisted my suggestion that you take your test to a different arena - a more fertile fishing ground. If you only cast your net here, or within your own circle of acquaintances, then you are limiting the potential for 'holding them accountable for what their bible says'.
I understand your reluctance to 'go there'.
In all of internet land, there will be a place, other than the PN forum, where your words and seeds might better be planted...if your aim is to do what you said.
Actually, what I think you really deep-down desired was to lead a merry dance with IC

thedoc: The members on a Christian forum are usually too busy telling each other how wonderful they are. They already know what right and wrong are (it's in the book) so that question would fall flat. For real world answers and discussion, you need to post on a non religious forum.

M: I'll take your word for it

and have you any suggestions as to which non-religious forum the AS test would best be taken; understood and answered ?

Philosophy Now Forum

How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong