Philosophy Now Forum

SpheresOfBalance wrote:I'm done, you're obviously simply a child playing with his toy, be careful some say it shall make you go blind.

raw_thought wrote:1. There is no objective physical image of my visualized triangle. One cannot see a triangle in my brain. I think that is obvious.
2. Therefore, since the materialist believes that only objective physical reality exists,for him, there is no visualized triangle.
3. I know that I can visualize a triangle.
4. Therefore, the materialist is wrong.

raw_thought wrote:1. It is self evident that one can visualize a triangle.
2. The visualized triangle has no physicality. The neurons are not firing in a triangular shape etc. There is not a physical triangle in a person's brain when he/she visualizes one.
Note that saying that the brain has no physical triangle but facilitates it misses the point. It is similar to saying that holding a CD of Mozart's music is equivalent to hearing his music. While holding the CD there is no music. While visualizing the triangle there is no physical triangle.
3. Materialists believe that only the physical exists.
4. The triangle has no physicality.
5. Therefore, for the materialist there is no visualized triangle.
6. Therefore, for the materialist it was impossible to visualize a triangle.
7. I know that I can visualize a triangle. I am visualizing one right now.
8. Therefore, I know that materialism cannot be true in all cases.
9. Since materialism believes that only the physical exists in all cases,I know that materialism is false.
Show me what numbered point you believe is false or how my argument is invalid
There is a difference between truth and validity.
Here is an argument that is true and valid.
1. Socrates was a man.
2. All men are mortal.
3. Therefore Socrates was mortal.
Here is an argument that is valid but not true.
1. All Martains eat snakes.
2. Bob is a Martain.
3. Therefore, Bob eats snakes.
Here is an argument that is true but invalid.
1. Nixon was president of the US.
2. Carter was president of the US.
3. Therefore Reagan was president.
If one cannot show how 1-8 (at the top of this post) are not all true, or cannot show how ythe argument is invalid,then the conclusion (9) must be true.

raw_thought wrote:2. There is no physical image of my visualised triangle ...

raw_thought wrote:I know that the triangle is not a physical image. ...

raw_thought wrote:Because there is no physical triangle. Unless one believes that there is a physical image in one's brain. And that is silly.

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

raw_thought wrote:The question is,"how can objective reality (neurons firing etc) create a subjective experience. Materialists simply deny that the subjective exists. That (see Dennett's definition of Qualia that I quoted) subjective experiences dont exist. That I do not feel pain,that I cannot visualize a triangle (because only I can experience the rriangle I am visualizing).Similarly, since you cannot feel my pain,my feeling of pain does not exist. That is silly.

No you are silly. The above is nothing more than: If a light bulb, then grass, steel and heaven make a square noble solid if rain squirts pain. Basically that's what you're saying. It's gobbledygook, absurd, ridiculous. You just want to prove your god/find a ghost in the machine. I think like many you're simply getting caught up in the lingo. It confuses you, so you can believe in ghosts.

Individually unique experiences do happen, and then they are gone. There is only ever this moment, no this one, no this one, such that existence is only ever now. Ones subjective view of anything is always a product of many experiences, such that ones view can change. They don't exist in the classic sense. In this moment, you have a visualized triangle in your mind, and in this instant you're killed, where's the triangle? Your body is still here, as is your brain, but it has stopped PHYSICALLY functioning, and in that instant that that your brain ceases to function so the triangle evaporates into thin air, because it never really existed, not in the classic sense. The triangle in your mind was simply a projection from your memory, your programming, that you accessed, it never really existed. At least not like the one that your teacher showed you all those years ago for the first time, on the blackboard. Crap it may be in a box somewhere in a forgotten attic.

Why you want to equate your memory/programming with the word qualia, is beyond me. Been a rebel much?

raw_thought wrote:Because there is no physical triangle. Unless one believes that there is a physical image in one's brain. And that is silly.