Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:38 pm There is no doer, yet nothing is left undone...

I can assure you that this principle does not hold true as far as housework is concerned.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:25 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:38 pm There is no doer, yet nothing is left undone...

I can assure you that this principle does not hold true as far as housework is concerned.

Undone housework is a prime example of no doer.

Dontaskme wrote:There is no one or thing who owns thoughts or any thing else, all things are just intangible invisible arising's appearing here now nowhere to no one or thing. That there is a you to own anything is an idea too. When you think of where you could have come from or who you are..then you've only got to follow it back to the atom...and then look at the space in which every atom resides. ...

Where you getting these 'atoms' from?

It's just empty space everywhere. ...

You are confusing the model with the noumena and your model is pretty out-of-date as well.

Simply, there is nothing here to make anything out of. ...

So what are these 'atoms'?

We've come from nothing, are nothing. Now, obviously, space is not empty, and yet it does certainly look as if it is, but as you can see, it's empty fullness. It's nothing being everything. Can you see there is no room for two here. All is one.

All make-believe about the noumena.

Now...you're actually invisible, because you can't see what has made you what you are, you can only see the effects of a causer, you can't see the causer, when you say well, look I'm waving my hand from side to side,look I'm making this happen, well, all you are doing is watching the effect of a moving hand happening, you can't see the I that is the causer, because I is just a concept, an idea arising in you.. That's because who you really are is invisible, you are the invisible watching your visible reflection, effect of a causeless causer. I'm simply talking about infinite regress here. ...

Infinite regress of what? You said there is nothing?

Me, I just think I'm a body waving an arm in an external world.

Once you realise you are nothing more than just ''pure presence'' .. in which..images, thoughts, feelings, sensations, beliefs, interpretations, perceptions, preferences, choices, decisions, planning, plotting, creating, hating, loving, negative and positive emotions, to name but a few attributes of the human condition...once you realise that all the things mentioned are not the ''pure presence'' but arise in it without ever effecting or harming it in any shape or form...and as this ''presence'' you can simply watch all what I've just mentioned appear and dissolve all on their own accord...and that you as ''pure presence'' are not making any of it happen, you will see that what is apparently happening as and through you..is all just a passing show in and out of you leaving you totally unscathed. ...

Tell that to my aches and pains.

Every event is determined by it's precursor predicted event following on from what came before as this endless continuous seamless flow that is life living itself.. Every mood or thought triggered by some prior preceding feeling or other, since no sudden mood can just appear without a cause...the human condition is made up of the effects of a causeless causer arising and dissolving in the ''pure presence of beingness'' or another word for this is ''boundless space''

Just more make-believe about the noumena.

All this writing and typing is just appearing to happen out of the boundlessness of space. There is no doer, yet nothing is left undone... the external stimuli triggers the idea there is a ''separate'' you here perceiving and doing... but the external is inseparable from the ONE seeing presence and that just points to an unidentified self-sustaining feedback loop like the mobius strip.

Quite the schizophrenic then this 'ONE'. Although it's not possible for 'one' to create this language that we are using so I'll stick to there be at least one other other than me thanks.

Einstein From the OP link

And as man becomes conscious of the stupendous laws that govern the universe in perfect harmony, he begins to realize how small he is. He sees the pettiness of human existence, with its ambitions and intrigues, its ‘I am better than thou’ creed.
This is the beginning of cosmic religion within him; fellowship and human service become his moral code. Without such moral foundations, we are hopelessly doomed.

Simone Weil wrote:

The combination of these two facts — the longing in the depth of the heart for absolute good, and the power, though only latent, of directing attention and love to a reality beyond the world and of receiving good from it — constitutes a link which attaches every man without exception to that other reality.

Whoever recognizes that reality recognizes also that link. Because of it, he holds every human being without any exception as something sacred to which he is bound to show respect.
This is the only possible motive for universal respect towards all human beings. Whatever formulation of belief or disbelief a man may choose to make, if his heart inclines him to feel this respect, then he in fact also recognizes a reality other than this world's reality. Whoever in fact does not feel this respect is alien to that other reality also.

Humility. Who has it sufficient to experience and practice the cosmic religion? How many are capable of experiencing their nothingness in relation to the “good” the harmonious whole? Modern ethical thought appeals to our greatness and how we can live together as One. Those like Simone and Einstein realize the futility of that approach and how we must open to the experience of what enables us to “feel” what we are instead of imagining what we are incapable of. Of course it will never happen for the Great Beast. Only a few will awaken to the reality of the human condition and acquire a cosmic perspective.

I just returned fro Montauk L.I where the great Atlantic Ocean meets the tip of I,I. It is easy to feel humility when witnessing a sunrise. But we forget and get caught up with pettiness. It is the human condition.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:00 pm Einstein From the OP link....

Oh God, not again.

Simone Weil wrote:....

Please, Nick, I'm begging you: No more, I can't stand anymore.

Humility. Who has it sufficient to experience and practice the cosmic religion?

Not I, Nick, I'm not humile enough.

How many are capable of experiencing their nothingness

Alas, I find I fall short yet again.

I just returned fro Montauk L.I where the great Atlantic Ocean meets the tip of I,I. It is easy to feel humility when witnessing a sunrise. But we forget and get caught up with pettiness. It is the human condition.

Speechless, I'm utterly lost for words.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:00 pmHumility. Who has it sufficient to experience and practice the cosmic religion? How many are capable of experiencing their nothingness in relation to the “good” the harmonious whole? Modern ethical thought appeals to our greatness and how we can live together as One. Those like Simone and Einstein realize the futility of that approach and how we must open to the experience of what enables us to “feel” what we are instead of imagining what we are incapable of. Of course it will never happen for the Great Beast. Only a few will awaken to the reality of the human condition and acquire a cosmic perspective.

I just returned fro Montauk L.I where the great Atlantic Ocean meets the tip of I,I. It is easy to feel humility when witnessing a sunrise. But we forget and get caught up with pettiness. It is the human condition.

True and you just demonstrated the dynamic. While you enjoyed a brief moment of peace communing with nature, it seems you couldn't wait to get back and resume the petty squabbles. Is it that people are bored and squabble for excitement?

They key to higher experience is concentration and focus. However, this takes energy. As Colin Wilson noted, when we are tired we can't focus, and in that state life can indeed seem empty, meaningless and mean in ways observed by Sartre and Camus.

This is where scientists deserve a ton more respect. These people are essentially modern day mystics, working marvels with rationality, and achieving this through sustained periods in deeply engrossed mental states of their gifted minds, inspired by a passion for the topic. What scientists do is basically meditate - extreme sustained concentration on a tiny detail of reality - and then they pass on the results of their meditations just as Buddhist gurus do.

Greta:

True and you just demonstrated the dynamic. While you enjoyed a brief moment of peace communing with nature, it seems you couldn't wait to get back and resume the petty squabbles. Is it that people are bored and squabble for excitement?

Communing with nature is something else. I experienced the reality of a higher vertical level of reality which produced the emotional response of awe and wonder. No peaceful tree hugging here. The essential question for you is why reports of these essential experiences make you want to squabble.

They key to higher experience is concentration and focus. However, this takes energy. As Colin Wilson noted, when we are tired we can't focus, and in that state life can indeed seem empty, meaningless and mean in ways observed by Sartre and Camus.

The key to actualize any obsession is concentration and focus. The Las Vegas shooter had both. He hid his motives and was dedicated to his cause of slaughtering innocent people. Einstein wrote of intuition. Actualizing intuition in the cause of truth requires a different quality of concentration and focus. But again, how many are open to the difference?

Einstein wrote:

If we want to improve the world we cannot do it with scientific knowledge but with ideals. Confucius, Buddha, Jesus and Gandhi have done more for humanity than science has done.
We must begin with the heart of man—with his conscience—and the values of conscience can only be manifested by selfless service to mankind.
Religion and science go together. As I’ve said before, science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind. They are interdependent and have a common goal—the search for truth.

The ability for concentration and focus are necessary tools for an intelligent person. However, something else is required: a heart with the same intellectual quality as an impartial scientist. But the human condition has created the corrupt heart making humility impossible.

Mark 7: 14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.” [16] [f]
17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Concentration and focus can enhance the greatest squabbles but the source of all negative emotion and the need to express it is within a person and the proof of the corrupt heart. Most prefer to glorify this corruption while a minority recognize it as something taking the place of their humanity. Self justification vs the truth necessary for a person to acquire a human perspective so as to become themselves. Self justification usually wins.

Einstein wrote:

If we want to improve the world we cannot do it with scientific knowledge but with ideals. Confucius, Buddha, Jesus and Gandhi have done more for humanity than science has done.

...oh really! What a load of sanctimonious hogwash. Ah! but it was Einstein! Who would believe that he could ever say anything stupid!

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:09 am Greta:

True and you just demonstrated the dynamic. While you enjoyed a brief moment of peace communing with nature, it seems you couldn't wait to get back and resume the petty squabbles. Is it that people are bored and squabble for excitement?

Communing with nature is something else. I experienced the reality of a higher vertical level of reality which produced the emotional response of awe and wonder. No peaceful tree hugging here. The essential question for you is why reports of these essential experiences make you want to squabble.

Communing with nature is all about awe and wonder. There is no other way.

The tree hugging comment is just another squabbling comment that trivialises human interactions with the natural world. What is needed is the capacity to rise above such weak gaming and embrace a higher consciousness. However, it is difficult to convince you of this.

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:55 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:09 am Greta:

True and you just demonstrated the dynamic. While you enjoyed a brief moment of peace communing with nature, it seems you couldn't wait to get back and resume the petty squabbles. Is it that people are bored and squabble for excitement?

Communing with nature is something else. I experienced the reality of a higher vertical level of reality which produced the emotional response of awe and wonder. No peaceful tree hugging here. The essential question for you is why reports of these essential experiences make you want to squabble.

Communing with nature is all about awe and wonder. There is no other way.

The tree hugging comment is just another squabbling comment that trivialises human interactions with the natural world. What is needed is the capacity to rise above such weak gaming and embrace a higher consciousness. However, it is difficult to convince you of this.

You are equating the higher conscious experience with superficial fantasy. Your way, not mine.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:55 am

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:55 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:09 am Greta:
Communing with nature is something else. I experienced the reality of a higher vertical level of reality which produced the emotional response of awe and wonder. No peaceful tree hugging here. The essential question for you is why reports of these essential experiences make you want to squabble.

Communing with nature is all about awe and wonder. There is no other way.

The tree hugging comment is just another squabbling comment that trivialises human interactions with the natural world. What is needed is the capacity to rise above such weak gaming and embrace a higher consciousness. However, it is difficult to convince you of this.

You are equating the higher conscious experience with superficial fantasy. Your way, not mine.

Far from it. The kind of higher consciousness needed in the world at the moment is the ability to transcend hatred. You need to relax and let your hatred go - you have so many hatreds of so many different types of people, and these hatreds are very obviously intense and consuming based on your output. It is not healthy, neither for you nor for others.

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:58 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:55 am

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:55 am
Communing with nature is all about awe and wonder. There is no other way.

The tree hugging comment is just another squabbling comment that trivialises human interactions with the natural world. What is needed is the capacity to rise above such weak gaming and embrace a higher consciousness. However, it is difficult to convince you of this.

You are equating the higher conscious experience with superficial fantasy. Your way, not mine.

Far from it. The kind of higher consciousness needed in the world at the moment is the ability to transcend hatred. You need to relax and let your hatred go - you have so many hatreds of so many different types of people, and these hatreds are very obviously intense and consuming based on your output. It is not healthy, neither for you nor for others.

You have to learn that it is senseless to lie as you do in order to cover your own negative emotional expressions. I don't know what you think you gain by them. You are the one consumed with hatred for what you don't understand. That is why you will not allow yourself to experience the humility necessary to acquire realistic human understanding.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:08 am

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:58 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:55 amYou are equating the higher conscious experience with superficial fantasy. Your way, not mine.

Far from it. The kind of higher consciousness needed in the world at the moment is the ability to transcend hatred. You need to relax and let your hatred go - you have so many hatreds of so many different types of people, and these hatreds are very obviously intense and consuming based on your output. It is not healthy, neither for you nor for others.

You have to learn that it is senseless to lie as you do in order to cover your own negative emotional expressions. I don't know what you think you gain by them. You are the one consumed with hatred for what you don't understand. That is why you will not allow yourself to experience the humility necessary to acquire realistic human understanding.

Right there - a hating reply. Still there. So much for the holiday. Isn't it always the way? You come back refreshed and happy and within hours of work you feel like you'd not been away.

I know this is an extreme question, but you are an extreme guy with extreme passions. Seriously, do you believe that you will one day feel it necessary to kill secularists?

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:22 am Einstein wrote:

If we want to improve the world we cannot do it with scientific knowledge but with ideals. Confucius, Buddha, Jesus and Gandhi have done more for humanity than science has done.

...oh really! What a load of sanctimonious hogwash. Ah! but it was Einstein! Who would believe that he could ever say anything stupid!

It is worth contemplating the conclusion of the OP article. Even though it doesn’t register here it is good to have it on record even in places dominated by the belief in science as the only path leading to a realistic human perspective.

It is Intuition which Advances Humanity

Many people think that the progress of the human race is based on experiences of an empirical, critical nature, but I say that true knowledge is to be had only through a philosophy of deduction. For it is intuition that improves the world, not just following a trodden path of thought.
Intuition makes us look at unrelated facts and then think about them until they can all be brought under one law. To look for related facts means holding onto what one has instead of searching for new facts.
Intuition is the father of new knowledge, while empiricism is nothing but an accumulation of old knowledge. Intuition, not intellect, is the ‘open sesame’ of yourself.
Indeed, it is not intellect, but intuition which advances humanity. Intuition tells man his purpose in this life.
I do not need any promise of eternity to be happy. My eternity is now. I have only one interest: to fulfill my purpose here where I am.
This purpose is not given me by my parents or my surroundings. It is induced by some unknown factors. These factors make me a part of eternity.”
~ Albert Einstein
Text Source: Einstein and the Poet: In Search of the Cosmic Man (1983). From a series of meetings William Hermanns had with Einstein in 1930, 1943, 1948, and 1954

Human meaning and purpose is revealed through “unknown factors” a person can experience through intuition which open us to the third direction of thought. Obviously only a few are open to intuition and prefer the battles over inductive empiricism.

"When a contradiction is impossible to resolve except by a lie, then we know that it is really a door." -Simone Weil

Simone Weil describes the path of intuition in her usual elegant fashion. Human meaning and purpose can only be experienced by those willing to sacrifice the lies necessary for self justification. These people are rare.

Without the eventual collective recognition of objective human meaning and purpose we are doomed. I don’t see how such a recognition is possible in the modern world. There is too much against it. All good things must come to an end including the ideal for a civilization furthering humanity as opposed to humanity serving machines.

The attitudes of those like dubious will win but the value of what it will win is debatable. Those like Einstein and Simone will be ridiculed as fools. 2+2 will be officially changed to 5 and the majority will celebrate the demise of the old ways. Well as long as there is good scotch and an available cute blonde, I may as well go down with the ship.

Nick_A wrote:

Simone Weil describes the path of intuition in her usual elegant fashion.

But intuition is not mysticism or emotionalism. Intuition is acute use of reason.