Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:19 pm**

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:20 pm
Science Fan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:58 pm The Jews have had a consistent presence in Jerusalem for thousands of years. Yet, the Muslims claim that their alleged prophet flew to Jerusalem on a horse, which makes Jerusalem theirs. It's amazing how so many people deny the Jews a right to their historic homeland in favor of a pure fantasy claim that no thinking person can take seriously.
What would you say the implications of applying this argument to the USA and Native Americans (Red Injuns) are?

Not forgetting that the US has taken away the historic homelands of muslims, then has the nerve to be reluctant to admit refugees from those same ruined homelands.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:29 pm**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:19 pm Not forgetting that the US has taken away the historic homelands of muslims, then has the nerve to be reluctant to admit refugees from those same ruined homelands.

Apparently, "it's not the same thing" according to Science Fan.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:30 pm**

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:29 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:19 pm Not forgetting that the US has taken away the historic homelands of muslims, then has the nerve to be reluctant to admit refugees from those same ruined homelands.
Apparently, "it's not the same thing" according to Science Fan.

Of course. And apparently he's the all-knowing guru of everything there is to know about everything. Here to put us all right.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:39 pm**

Science Fan wrote:...
In researching the historical evidence, however, I have concluded that Muhammad never actually existed. ...

Him and Jesus then. Seems to be a habit with the theists.

By-the-by which historical resources did you use to come to this conclusion?

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:43 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:50 pm
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:16 pm You obviously don't think there's anything wrong with rubbishing religious beliefs provided they're not yours.
There's nothing wrong with calling falsehood into question, no. Nobody gets a free ride on that. You may have noticed that I also don't give free rides to Atheists.

No human being is well served by being encouraged to delude himself. And it's no act of kindness to do that to someone. I know you don't see things the same way, but that's the point: we're not agreeing, and don't have to agree in order to get along. It's a thing called "tolerance": it means (lit.) "putting up with" things you firmly believe are simply not true. It doesn't entail pretending everything is true: for that's not "tolerance" but "indifference."

Right. And we've all seen how 'tolerant' you are.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:46 pm**

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:39 pm
By-the-by, which historical resources did you use to come to this conclusion?

When you combine shameless double standards with selective rationalisation coming to the desired conclusion is a mere formality.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:52 pm**

The US has not taken away any so-called historic homelands of the Muslims. Such claims against the USA are based on bigotry, not on the facts, and not on reason. For example, which countries artificially divided up the Muslim world into arbitrary nation states where the populations hated each other? The USA had nothing to do with it -- the blame goes to France and Britain. So, as each of these states crumble, and the resulting conflicts break-out, blame Britain and France, not the USA. Which country invaded Afghanistan and imposed a communist regime to oppress the local Muslims? It wasn't the USA, it was the USSR. Yet, because the USA came to the assistance of the oppressed Muslims, people falsely claim that somehow this was the USA creating Al Qaeda. It's amazing how the USSR gets no blame, and it all falls unfairly on the USA. Or, take the present civil war in Syria? Which foreign country has been murdering off the local Muslim population, while also spending a great deal of time and money on promoting anti-Islamic messages against Muslims throughout Europe? Russia. Yet, those who blame the USA ignore Russia's criminal actions in Syria. Before that, what did we have in the Middle East? Numerous Muslims killing each other, and how much of this was the result of the Ottoman Empire that existed for centuries in the region? After all, if the USA invaded France today, and then a year from now, walked away, does anyone think the French people would start murdering each other off, like we see in places like Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and throughout the Muslim world? It wouldn't happen. The two main reasons for the outbreaks of violence are due to France and Britain creating artificial nation states and the nature of Islam itself --- and efforts by Muslims to restore a caliphate once again.

It really does take a great deal of willful blindness to blame the USA for Islamic refugees, especially since Russia is the current main culprit, and has been responsible for a great deal of the violence for decades.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:55 pm**

Harbal -- you are most definitely not impartial.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:58 pm**

Science Fan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:55 pm Harbal -- you are most definitely not impartial.

What do you know about anything? You don't even have an avatar yet you still expect to be taken seriously.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:09 pm**

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:58 pm
Science Fan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:55 pm Harbal -- you are most definitely not impartial.
What do you know about anything? You don't even have an avatar yet you still expect to be taken seriously.

???

An avatar prompts you to take statements seriously or not do they?

Why?

Regards
DL

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:15 pm**

Science Fan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:52 pm The US has not taken away any so-called historic homelands of the Muslims. Such claims against the USA are based on bigotry, not on the facts, and not on reason. For example, which countries artificially divided up the Muslim world into arbitrary nation states where the populations hated each other? The USA had nothing to do with it -- the blame goes to France and Britain. So, as each of these states crumble, and the resulting conflicts break-out, blame Britain and France, not the USA. Which country invaded Afghanistan and imposed a communist regime to oppress the local Muslims? It wasn't the USA, it was the USSR. Yet, because the USA came to the assistance of the oppressed Muslims, people falsely claim that somehow this was the USA creating Al Qaeda. It's amazing how the USSR gets no blame, and it all falls unfairly on the USA. Or, take the present civil war in Syria? Which foreign country has been murdering off the local Muslim population, while also spending a great deal of time and money on promoting anti-Islamic messages against Muslims throughout Europe? Russia. Yet, those who blame the USA ignore Russia's criminal actions in Syria. Before that, what did we have in the Middle East? Numerous Muslims killing each other, and how much of this was the result of the Ottoman Empire that existed for centuries in the region? After all, if the USA invaded France today, and then a year from now, walked away, does anyone think the French people would start murdering each other off, like we see in places like Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and throughout the Muslim world? It wouldn't happen. The two main reasons for the outbreaks of violence are due to France and Britain creating artificial nation states and the nature of Islam itself --- and efforts by Muslims to restore a caliphate once again.

It really does take a great deal of willful blindness to blame the USA for Islamic refugees, especially since Russia is the current main culprit, and has been responsible for a great deal of the violence for decades.

Not biased at all. And I don't think anyone in their right mind wants the kind of 'assistance' the American military has to offer. You seriously think the US invaded Afghanistan in 2001 to 'save' it from evil communist oppressors? Wow, you do take nationalistic pride to the extreme. Why the fuck is the US still in Afghanistan then? And the refugee crisis was caused by the invasion of Iraq and has been snowballing ever since. Your ME history is horribly shallow in spite of your amazing ability to disguise biased opinion as 'fact'.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:22 pm**

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:09 pm
An avatar prompts you to take statements seriously or not do they?

Why?

I don't know but you seem to have taken mine seriously so you tell me.

Posted: **Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:36 pm**

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:22 pm
Greatest I am wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:09 pm
An avatar prompts you to take statements seriously or not do they?

Why?
I don't know but you seem to have taken mine seriously so you tell me.

Not because of your avatar.

Thanks for showing that you cannot argue for your thinking by deflecting the onus to me.

You seem quite young and will learn how to speak intelligently with more practice. Possibly.

Regards
DL

Posted: **Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:05 am**

Science Fan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:58 pm Good point, and you are right. The Jews created Jerusalem. The Jews have been the majority of people living in Jerusalem since at least the mid 1800s. The Jews have had a consistent presence in Jerusalem for thousands of years. Yet, the Muslims claim that their alleged prophet flew to Jerusalem on a horse, which makes Jerusalem theirs. It's amazing how so many people deny the Jews a right to their historic homeland in favor of a pure fantasy claim that no thinking person can take seriously.

You are also right in the fact that the story reads more like it was made up many years later, by those who did not know actual history. Another sure sign that the alleged prophet of Islam never really lived and is a figment of the imagination only.

Countries have neither a 'right' nor 'no right' to exist. They just exist, and certainly not by 'right' of some archaic belief. Who confers the 'right' for any country to exist. 'God'? Israel exists the same as any other country exists. I have no problem with that, I think it's a relatively decent sort of a country that has made mistakes and done some crappy things, like most countries, but that opinion certainly isn't based on any superstitious crap about 'historic homelands'. And muslims lived there for centuries too. No one could deny they got the shit end of the stick-- but that's GB's fault. Frankly I don't know where people who say it 'has no right to exist' expect it to go.

Posted: **Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:28 am**

Science Fan wrote:The US has not taken away any so-called historic homelands of the Muslims. Such claims against the USA are based on bigotry, not on the facts, and not on reason. For example, which countries artificially divided up the Muslim world into arbitrary nation states where the populations hated each other? The USA had nothing to do with it -- the blame goes to France and Britain. ...

Lot of truth there the Sykes-Picot agreement was a disgrace.

So, as each of these states crumble, and the resulting conflicts break-out, blame Britain and France, not the USA. ...

And yet they weren't crumbling were they.

Which country invaded Afghanistan and imposed a communist regime to oppress the local Muslims? ...

Not heard of the Saur revolution then?

It wasn't the USA, it was the USSR. ...

And what an irony that is eh!

Yet, because the USA came to the assistance of the oppressed Muslims, ...

Who you are now killing. The US came because of its proxy cold war with the USSR.

people falsely claim that somehow this was the USA creating Al Qaeda. It's amazing how the USSR gets no blame, and it all falls unfairly on the USA. ...

Some truth there as it was formed to fight the Soviets and by whom? Bin-Laden who the US funded and trained, he learnt well eh!

Or, take the present civil war in Syria? Which foreign country has been murdering off the local Muslim population, while also spending a great deal of time and money on promoting anti-Islamic messages against Muslims throughout Europe? Russia. Yet, those who blame the USA ignore Russia's criminal actions in Syria. ...

Except that the US is hardly whiter than white here as once they were funding revolution behind the scenes and once again funding the radical islamists.

Before that, what did we have in the Middle East? Numerous Muslims killing each other, and how much of this was the result of the Ottoman Empire that existed for centuries in the region? ...

Eh!? Centuries of relative peace during that time surely then? It was the collapse and carve-up that started the main problems.

After all, if the USA invaded France today, and then a year from now, walked away, does anyone think the French people would start murdering each other off, like we see in places like Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and throughout the Muslim world? It wouldn't happen. ...

Why? You destroy a country and then leave what do you think will happen?

The two main reasons for the outbreaks of violence are due to France and Britain creating artificial nation states and the nature of Islam itself --- and efforts by Muslims to restore a caliphate once again. ...

But the caliphate idea is a recent addition? As you say, most of this is due to the artificial states crossing old tribal boundaries. Oh! And oil and the need for the US to move it's troops out of Saudi Arabia.

It really does take a great deal of willful blindness to blame the USA for Islamic refugees, especially since Russia is the current main culprit, and has been responsible for a great deal of the violence for decades.

Er!? You've flattened three countries and created sectarian chaos which has displaced millions in the past two decades, I think you should own what you've caused in the name of oil and proxy wars with Russia. We expect it from Russia and the old Soviets but then they don't go around spouting guff about installing democracy and freedom.

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