The universe expands ...

[Godfree]

There is NO PROBABILITY of God...IT EXISTS 100% FACT.

Show me one?

Spoken like the true Skeptic , you and Spheres , are both Skeptics in my view ,
Skeptics are atleast prepared to use their brain and take an honest look at the FACTS,
and in the case of god there are none , just a mountain of here-say ,
where I think you fail to apply your intellect correctly is ,
you feel because you need 100% proof to claim anything ,
you make no claims , because even today there is a serious lack of 100% certainty,
So in order to get a debate I think worthy of our intellects ,
I would ask a Skeptic to , put a % of probability on it ,
most of us know the common possibilities,
so I have been trying to get yall to list your most probable ,
there has been no hint any of you grasp the significants ,,???

[SpheresOfBalance]

The funny thing is that you fear elaborating on how you know, probably because someone might be capable of ripping your evidence to shreds.

What evidence? Its not like 'God' communicates with one via a mobile ph where ph records might be provided. If 'God' wished to be proven i guess it would leave hard evidence and it certainly did no such thing with me.
The only 'evidence' i can provide i did via my website.

I spoke of your evidence, not as you can present it to me, as if it is happening right now before my very senses, but rather how it was presented to you, such that you can use words, so I can know the particulars. If it has been 100% of what you believe you can see in cloud formations (words) that are in fact man made, over the course of much time, by many that has had faith, where it may manifest in such word formation, I scoff. And say that I could in fact, if I so chose, do the same as you have done, yet come to a conclusion that actually disproves your god. If I felt so inclined. As anyone can find anything in clouds, which has no necessary bearing on the reality of what they 'believe' they see. It is in fact, inconclusive, and more a matter of wishful thinking.

For instance I attribute various coincidences to the power of nature, the natural order of the universe, which one cannot necessarily find in any biblical sense of that kind of god. So I believe in the natural forces, and see them as contributing to our creation, but far be it from any god mumbo jumbo as contained in any age old religious text, of people of a bygone era, of feeble intellect and knowledge. As a matter of fact, I would be the last one, to seek gold, or someones life, in it's pursuit, as I can admit that it's understanding within me, is far from complete, and that even if I felt otherwise, I would not be so bold as to hold others accountable to it, such that I attempted to force it's belief, in any way.

Only knowledge and science should be used to steer the human ship away from the rocks. As it surely contains no individual self interests.

[SpheresOfBalance]

There is NO PROBABILITY of God...IT EXISTS 100% FACT.

Show me one?

Spoken like the true Skeptic , you and Spheres , are both Skeptics in my view ,
Skeptics are atleast prepared to use their brain and take an honest look at the FACTS,
and in the case of god there are none , just a mountain of here-say ,
where I think you fail to apply your intellect correctly is ,
you feel because you need 100% proof to claim anything ,
you make no claims , because even today there is a serious lack of 100% certainty,
So in order to get a debate I think worthy of our intellects ,
I would ask a Skeptic to , put a % of probability on it ,
most of us know the common possibilities,
so I have been trying to get yall to list your most probable ,
there has been no hint any of you grasp the significants ,,???

You unknowingly speak of bias. As aren't we all.
As Socrates said: 'I only know, that I know nothing."

[SpheresOfBalance]

Yes thats why I can't get a straight answer from you ,
because you know your answers will only make you look like a fool ,
since you cant explain it I will ,
the reason I was on about the size of the universe in relation to god existing or not ,
is because an infinite universe did not have a beginning , a moment of creation ,
if you accept the universe is infinite , then you are doing a schizo flip to also believe in god ,
so Atto is one of the people who base their reality on something with a probability of close to zero ,
just to make sure you don't get even more confused ,
there is ZERO proof for the existence of god ,
there is a mountain of proof for evolution , both of us and the stars and planets ,
but you will ignore the mountain of evidence in preference for something ,
with ZERO proof , your world is based on nothing , fantasies and illusion ,
it's no wonder I can't get any logic out of you ...

There is NO PROBABILITY of God...IT EXISTS 100% FACT.
Whether the universe is FINITE or INFINITE makes NO difference to that fact...get the whole bible 'creation' away from your short sighted mind.
Show ME ONCE where you have made me appear a FOOL.
If i thought you had a grain of intelligence that would be worth debating with YOU as to how a 'God' could form as a result of causality and entropy i would...but for me it would be like debating with a chimp that happened to find a laptop with an internet connection.

You self stroking fool. Just because you believe your argument to be more refined, taking many modern scientific concepts into consideration, necessarily lends credence, to your visions to be found in cloud formations, gives you the right to try and humiliate, with condescension, and childish name calling, only proves you have no real clue. As it would seem, even you don't believe it can stand on it's own.

[SpheresOfBalance]

The funny thing is that you fear elaborating on how you know, probably because someone might be capable of ripping your evidence to shreds.

What evidence? Its not like 'God' communicates with one via a mobile ph where ph records might be provided. If 'God' wished to be proven i guess it would leave hard evidence and it certainly did no such thing with me.
The only 'evidence' i can provide i did via my website.

Yes thats why I can't get a straight answer from you ,
because you know your answers will only make you look like a fool ,
since you cant explain it I will ,
the reason I was on about the size of the universe in relation to god existing or not ,
is because an infinite universe did not have a beginning , a moment of creation ,
if you accept the universe is infinite , then you are doing a schizo flip to also believe in god ,
Not really, as we are all talking above our heads, such that it could be true that an infinite universe is in fact contained within the infinite mind of an infinite god, and that creation only pertains to us humans, and that which caused our birth, i.e., the workings of the infinite universal mind, through all of it's constituents, i.e., stars, supernovas, planets, etc.

The trick here is that one can take apart the traditional view, as who is to say that certain specifics aren't incorrect. One such as you, can only 'lend credence' to the totality, of the age old version, as if it's the only possibility, and must be held complete, or thrown out complete. If would seem you lack the ability to see that it could only be partially correct, which actually kind of blows my mind, as you then lend credence to their age old words, as if it the only correct way to proceed. I see that many people do this, as evidenced by those that can only see that you must be communist if you hate capitalism, as if those two methodologies are the only ones available. What an unimaginable lot, many are.


so Atto is one of the people who base their reality on something with a probability of close to zero ,
just to make sure you don't get even more confused ,
there is ZERO proof for the existence of god ,
there is a mountain of proof for evolution , both of us and the stars and planets ,
but you will ignore the mountain of evidence in preference for something ,
with ZERO proof , your world is based on nothing , fantasies and illusion ,
it's no wonder I can't get any logic out of you ...

[Godfree]

Only knowledge and science should be used to steer the human ship away from the rocks. As it surely contains no individual self interests.[/color][/quote]

A nice sentiment , but who's knowledge , and who's science ,,???
Scientology ,,??? ,,The New Scientist ,,??? ,,,Intelligent Design ,,???
and having the knowledge is not enough , you also have to have the courage and commitment ,
to act and do something ,
and that is where the Skeptics fail , we get the status quo because they , the Skeptics ,
will be skeptical of the idea that they should act ,
so it's like Skeptic is just a convenient excuse for complacency ,
change requires you to chose , this way or that ,
STOP TRYING TO MAKE EVERY BODY HAPPY ,AND JUST BE HONEST

[Godfree]

There is NO PROBABILITY of God...IT EXISTS 100% FACT.
Whether the universe is FINITE or INFINITE makes NO difference to that fact...get the whole bible 'creation' away from your short sighted mind.
Show ME ONCE where you have made me appear a FOOL.
I
[
color=#0000FF]You self stroking fool. Just because you believe your argument to be more refined, taking many modern

You can quote and flap as much as you like ,
if you can't seriously see that the post above is completely confused ,
then I have overestimated your intellect ,
So "there is no probability of god" , a quote I would be proud of ,,???
and then , "it exists 100% fact" ,,you and I know there are no facts to prove gods existence ,
there is a right and a wrong in life ,
every body can't be right ,
all religions can't be right even if there was a god ,
but there is a clear distinction between those who believe there is a god ,
and those who don't ,, both can't be right ,
I don't believe we are going to pretend FOREVER ,
at some point we must face reality ,
IN REALITY THERE IS NO GOD OR HEAVEN NO LIFE AFTER DEATH .

[SpheresOfBalance]

There is NO PROBABILITY of God...IT EXISTS 100% FACT.
Whether the universe is FINITE or INFINITE makes NO difference to that fact...get the whole bible 'creation' away from your short sighted mind.
Show ME ONCE where you have made me appear a FOOL.
I
[
You self stroking fool. Just because you believe your argument to be more refined, taking many modern

You can quote and flap as much as you like ,
if you can't seriously see that the post above is completely confused ,
then I have overestimated your intellect ,
So "there is no probability of god" , a quote I would be proud of ,,???
and then , "it exists 100% fact" ,,you and I know there are no facts to prove gods existence ,
there is a right and a wrong in life ,
every body can't be right ,
all religions can't be right even if there was a god ,
but there is a clear distinction between those who believe there is a god ,
and those who don't ,, both can't be right ,
I don't believe we are going to pretend FOREVER ,
at some point we must face reality ,
IN REALITY THERE IS NO GOD OR HEAVEN NO LIFE AFTER DEATH .

I said that, highlighted in red above, to attofishpie, in your defense, so thanks for the abuse, I guess that's what I get for trying to help. Whether you feel like you don't need help matters not, as the only thing that does, is that I put forth the effort to do so. So again thank you, my friend.

Which has nothing to do with you and I providing arguments for one another's arguments, that, to me at least, is a separate issue, but maybe you are more emotional than I am, and can't separate the two, I don't know, you tell me.

[Godfree]

There is NO PROBABILITY of God...IT EXISTS 100% FACT.
Whether the universe is FINITE or INFINITE makes NO difference to that fact...get the whole bible 'creation' away from your short sighted mind.
Show ME ONCE where you have made me appear a FOOL.
I
[
You self stroking fool. Just because you believe your argument to be more refined, taking many modern

You can quote and flap as much as you like ,
if you can't seriously see that the post above is completely confused ,
then I have overestimated your intellect ,
So "there is no probability of god" , a quote I would be proud of ,,???
and then , "it exists 100% fact" ,,you and I know there are no facts to prove gods existence ,
there is a right and a wrong in life ,
every body can't be right ,
all religions can't be right even if there was a god ,
but there is a clear distinction between those who believe there is a god ,
and those who don't ,, both can't be right ,
I don't believe we are going to pretend FOREVER ,
at some point we must face reality ,
IN REALITY THERE IS NO GOD OR HEAVEN NO LIFE AFTER DEATH .

I said that, highlighted in red above, to attofishpie, in your defense, so thanks for the abuse, I guess that's what I get for trying to help. Whether you feel like you don't need help matters not, as the only thing that does, is that I put forth the effort to do so. So again thank you, my friend.

Which has nothing to do with you and I providing arguments for one another's arguments, that, to me at least, is a separate issue, but maybe you are more emotional than I am, and can't separate the two, I don't know, you tell me.

I am very emotional , passionate , almost possessed ,single minded , stubborn ,
I had an experience with the CHch hospital , they told me I didn't have an abscess issue , and I said I did ,
after 12 years of being insulted and ignored , wrongly diagnosed ,they were proved wrong ,
so thats the sort of confidence and resolve I have ,
I confidently stood up against the entire medical profession here in chch ,
the GP's the surgeons the shrink , and even The ED department , when I was at my worst ,
they all got it wrong , told me I was deluded , and there was no abscess , for 12 years ,
so you tell me mate , just how stubborn and self assured am I

[Godfree]

Only knowledge and science should be used to steer the human ship away from the rocks. As it surely contains no individual self interests.[/color]

A nice sentiment , but who's knowledge , and who's science ,,???
Scientology ,,??? ,,The New Scientist ,,??? ,,,Intelligent Design ,,???
and having the knowledge is not enough , you also have to have the courage and commitment ,
to act and do something ,
and that is where the Skeptics fail , we get the status quo because they , the Skeptics ,
will be skeptical of the idea that they should act ,
so it's like Skeptic is just a convenient excuse for complacency ,
change requires you to chose , this way or that ,
STOP TRYING TO MAKE EVERY BODY HAPPY ,AND JUST BE HONEST[/quote]

Your a nice guy , I can tell that , you wouldn't hurt a fly , me neither , sort of , flies , should be squashed ,
but you know what I mean , your doing what I did as a child within my own family ,
I was playing the role of the peace maker and often wondered why my siblings liked to take sides and make war ,
I'm not unfamiliar with your philosophy , I do understand the stance your taking ,
but we can play games with things to make points , ie ,
if you had to chose , does god exist or not and sitting on the fence was not an option ,
what would you decide you think ,???
so nice as you are , you don't help me further my cause , you do just as I do ,
and only want to continually promote my cause/philosophy ,
so I don't mind , my favourite saying as a fifteen yr old ,
reality is an individual experience , or
reality is subjective ,
I started quite early , and was getting my brain around subjects like infinity by the time I was 10 ,
to say I know these arguments backwards ,
would be an understatement ,,,!!!

[Hjarloprillar]

interesting stuff.

a subjectivist v a subjectivist who is an objectivist.

flames and burning on sub side. equality and burning on other.


wake up
Nikos of Sparta

[Godfree]

interesting stuff.

a subjectivist v a subjectivist who is an objectivist.

flames and burning on sub side. equality and burning on other.


wake up
Nikos of Sparta

As usual I find you a little criptic , like each post is a challenge in knowledge ,
I don't read , as a habit , never have , so if your expecting me to know the book or quote you are making ,
I probably don't know it , so do me a favour and just spit it out mate ,
are you an Objectivist , I don't describe myself as a Subjectivist ,
subjective describes the perspective that you view the world from ,
not what your view is ,
my view is there is no god , hense I am an Atheist

[Hjarloprillar]

Godfree''

cryptic? thank you for compliment. cryptic =good

1. i have read 6k+ books up. does not make me smart.

It does seem to confuse many.
what i wrote is not quote.. 'i wrote it'. And never thought anyone would ever consider it a quote.
its a bit 'too aphorism'

if i wanted to make an aphorism im more like
going to hell in a hand basket
just when you hit rock bottom, someone throws you a shovel

cough . co .. co dcfg.. cough. eewww sorry about your shirt MATE.
i had to cough it up.

speciffics bob speciffics

[Godfree]

Godfree''

cryptic? thank you for compliment. cryptic =good

1. i have read 6k+ books up. does not make me smart.

It does seem to confuse many.
what i wrote is not quote.. 'i wrote it'. And never thought anyone would ever consider it a quote.
its a bit 'too aphorism'

if i wanted to make an aphorism im more like
going to hell in a hand basket
just when you hit rock bottom, someone throws you a shovel

cough . co .. co dcfg.. cough. eewww sorry about your shirt MATE.
i had to cough it up.

speciffics bob speciffics

6k's a lot of books , so you must just be a very flamboyant writer then ,
"flames and burning on sub side . equality and burning on the other" ,
are we burning witches , books , bibles ,, I'm a little unsure as to exactly what you mean ,
but I'm glad you have read over 6k books because I like to pick the brain of those who have ,
it saves me the labourious process of having to do it myself ,
I'm too lazy to google ,aphorism ,I could have a guess ,
euphoria ,aphoria could be the opposite ,,???
it sounds pretty miserable place that hell in a hand basket ,
so I'm guessing I'm probably right

[Hjarloprillar]

Godfree''

cryptic? thank you for compliment. cryptic =good

1. i have read 6k+ books up. does not make me smart.

It does seem to confuse many.
what i wrote is not quote.. 'i wrote it'. And never thought anyone would ever consider it a quote.
its a bit 'too aphorism'

if i wanted to make an aphorism im more like
going to hell in a hand basket
just when you hit rock bottom, someone throws you a shovel

cough . co .. co dcfg.. cough. eewww sorry about your shirt MATE.
i had to cough it up.

speciffics bob speciffics

6k's a lot of books , so you must just be a very flamboyant writer then ,
"flames and burning on sub side . equality and burning on the other" ,
are we burning witches , books , bibles ,, I'm a little unsure as to exactly what you mean ,
but I'm glad you have read over 6k books because I like to pick the brain of those who have ,
it saves me the labourious process of having to do it myself ,
I'm too lazy to google ,aphorism ,I could have a guess ,
euphoria ,aphoria could be the opposite ,,???
it sounds pretty miserable place that hell in a hand basket ,
so I'm guessing I'm probably right

you are joking right?
to not know what an aphorism is, is like 'who was descartes' [x 10 on a philosophy forum]

theres a smell of fish.
a gank

gank is gaming trm.
"we ganked him' the operative.

"6k's a lot of books , so you must just be a very flamboyant writer then'

not at all. i have published zero books. i have made a few aphorisms.. but thats it.

"On the 8th day god made stupidity.
The only law humanity lives by"

the 11th commandment.