Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:51 pm
iambiguous wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:25 pmNo, no, no. With you and wizard and those of your ilk, I'm more interested in taking racism here.
One of your issues, putting aside compulsion and what I might label psychological over-heating, is that you blend categories together indiscriminately. I have no clear idea what Wizard is arguing for nor what against. And in my case I am more or less sharing *research notes* from my investigation of the actual views and beliefs of those who are in the Dissident Right or the so-called Far Right.
I am not proposing a racialist program nor recommending that you or anyone accept, believe in or act on any particular position, but rahter am working to clarify what, in fact, is being debated. Essentially what the issue
is.
Okay, given what you construe the issue of race to
be you'll either take that here...
And then, finally, for those here who think that this is the case, okay, if you were in a position of power in a community composed of many different races, what would be permitted and what would not be permitted in regard to social, political and economic interactions? What behaviors would be encouraged/rewarded and what behaviors would be discouraged/punished? For example, would interracial marriages still be legal?
And how would you compare yourself to, say, those who practiced apartheid in South Africa and those who practiced extermination in Nazi Germany?
...or you won't. Presuming that you do believe the Northern European white stock is "on average" in possession of the superior intellect.
Instead, on and on you go [in Stooge mode] taking the exchange as far away from that as you possibly can...
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:51 pmYou make the mistake of confusing clarification and outlining (of an issue) as advocacy. But this is quite true all across the board today. That is, among those in Left or Progressive circles even to outline or to profess to understand the ideology of those in another camp is seen as advocacy.
I think you have made it clear, and always in that huge bold print, that you wish to see a racialist ideology
applied, as for example it was in Germany under the National Socialists or under the apartheid government (that had a 300+ year root). You are sure that the German National Socialists were bad, and I gather you think the same of the Dutch and German South Africans, but to that I say that your entire argument will reduce to what it seems to be here: tirade after emoted tirade.
Simply unbelievable. I'm merely attempting to bring your own views on race down out of the "serious philosophy" clouds and explore where you yourself would take your "theoretical" conclusions if you interacted in a community of different races and you were in a position of power to walk your talk.
I used big and bold print above because with you the sort of print I'm using now never seems to work. And, after all, there are those who believe that the white race is the superior race that were, historically, willing to impose apartheid and death camps in
proudly walking their own talk.
How about you in your own "best of all possible communities"? Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle or "true confessions"?
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:51 pmBut topically the entire issue is far more complex and I'd even say it is more interesting when examined from a less determined position. For one example: how are we to examine Israeli determination to erase non-Jewish identity in Israel/Palestine? It sure seems to be a similar process. That is, one of recovery of one's chosen self-identity and absolute, if also concealed, determination to annihilate another, competing identity.
Indeed:
"Rep. Pramila Jayapal, the Democrat from Washington state, set off a small firestorm when she told the truth this past weekend. Here are her ‘offending’ words: “I want you to know that we have been fighting to make it clear that Israel is a racist state.” In response, what passes for Democratic leadership in Congress issued this statement:
"“Israel is not a racist state,” said House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries and Reps. Katherine Clark, Pete Aguilar and Ted Lieu in a joint statement that did not mention Jayapal by name.”
"We all know, of course, that Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, B’Tselem and other human-rights organizations have documented in great detail how Israel is an apartheid (read: racist) state. That is an obvious fact for anyone who follows news of the Middle East. So why do the esteemed Democratic ‘leaders’ referenced above deny this fact? Well, there may be a reason." counterpunch magazine.
On the other hand, there are those who would treat the Jews [and the blacks] in much the same manner themselves if they only did have the power to get the job done.
But, instead, it's straight back up into the intellectual clouds...
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:51 pmThere are other areas where these issues and questions are relevant today, and a reductionist mind-set is not only boring and predictable but uninteresting and rather dull. Take for example France and the developing or strengthening French nationalist and identitarian movement. Is that movement *wrong*? I mean on a moral level? I am not sure that it is. It is definitely
problematic though.
But the most crucial component revolves around whether "on average" and compared to other races, whites have a superior intelligence.
That, given this as the most crucial factor, is it reasonable to suggest in turn that whites might then be construed as the "master race".
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:51 pmWhen dealing with Obsessive/Compulsives I guess you just have to let them be what they want to be . . .
The
actual question, though, if the question is posed fairly, is Would you allow any nation, and any people, to self-determine its membership? Take as an example *Nigeria* or *Japan*.
Or, in the name of some *higher value* must all such concern and identity-issue be seen and be transformed into a sort of mortal evil?
So, is that a yes or a no?
