Re: Reincarnation
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:33 pm
So what, we're all quoting each other, parroting what someone else has said before us, the expression of human language is an oscillating echo chamber which is sourced only in itself. That's all we've been doing since we first learnt to talk as a baby, is repeating the same thing over and over again, something that we've heard from someone else, and put it in a different way that's all.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:45 am I think it's an old Zen quote that I guess both of them are quoting.
But then you are already familar with the nondual message, even having confessed it's not to your philosophical taste, you admit you do not like the guru vibe....but isn't that what all philosophers are doing?
What I express through langauage is meant in the way it is meant to mean according to how I personally interpret it to mean, as does everyone else interpret their own philosophy according to how they directly experience it as it is known from their own unique personal understanding...but so what?Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:45 amPerhaps in some sense, though not the way mean it. Most people in any discussion forum put forward their ideas about what is real/what is going on. For me the guru role entails spiritual aspects and specific dynamics between the guru and others.
....what the heck are you expecting to hear in a philosophical discussion? are you expecting something no one has ever heard or talked about before, something off the scale of human understanding that has never been thought of before, something completely unique and brand new that blows the mind of every thinking philosopher making all that they had thought previously redundant and irrelevant? is that what you want?
So what, don't we all belong to some form of cult or another, our own societal human man-made cultures according to our specific values and beliefs based on where we were born and what langauge we speak, and isn't our capacity to work together in mutual cooperation how we develop our cultures when it comes to operating as a united team so as to avoid the collapse of our civilisations.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:45 amThere are a lot of things that are neither guru shit nor earthshakingly original. Throwing out quotes or paraphrases from a non-dualist perspective when it's pointed out you made a false generalization for example has a culty edge to it.
We have created our own little cults which is only a shortened version of the word culture. Tell me one human activity that is not cult like behavior?
Congrats would you like a medal for that accurate assessment? but so what if it's guru stuff, why does that seem to be a problem for you?Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:45 am Hey, I won't respond to/take responsibility for X, but here's a tidbit of wisdom. Telling people nothing they say will change your personal philosophy AND passing on a lot of rehashed eastern 'wisdom' or wisdom, yeah, to me that's guru stuff.
So what if I do take on this role, are we not all playing somekind of role in our life...what the heck is your problem with the action of role playing? I'm simply a messenger as we all are, each playing our role as to what message we send out there.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:45 am I am not at all assuming you consciously decide to take on the role or guru or master, but that dynamic implicitly says things to people.
So what if that's what he wants to do, no one is obliged to read his posts, we take what we want and leave the rest, isn't that a normal thing to do with knowledge? I haven't read any of Peter's posts, they do not interest me, so I have no reason to put my attention there, but I certainly do not have any desire to contest or whine about his motive to post or the way he delivers it, it's just what he wants to do with his particular style of philosophy I suppose.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:45 amIt's a bit like Peter Kropotkin on the political level. He comes, lectures, doesn't respond to much to the points people make, can't seem to take responsibility for what he writes AND there's a lack of organized thought or original thought. He's not in the guru role because for the most part he's not anywhere near spiritual stuff, but it's a similar dynamic.
Oh well, I guess that's just how you see it then, but then so what, it is what it is, people are very much different in how they choose to express themselves, and it doesn't matter to me anyway, how or why anything people have to say is presented or is expected to be perceived by the readers.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:45 amThere are many posters, here and elsewhere, over the years who don't necessarily have paradigmatic shift things to say, but who can honestly interact, combine their personal lives or life in general with their philosophical posts, and it's interesting in that way. Dealing with the voices who are not like that is useful in another way.
These man-made stories, aka cliches like all philosophical cliches have helped I guess, they have helped me to see the frailty and futility and fakeness of humanity and their obsession to cling to their conditioned mythical beliefs as if they were actually real....the nondual message also helped me to understand why humanities apparent separation from nature as and through the human ego, was natures biggest flaw and mistake, as nature seeks endlessly through it's dna replicating molecules for the perfect species, but has failed miserably so far..
So what? it's just my opinion that's all. I'm not saying life is like that for everyone, I'm just sharing my own life experience as I experience it to be.
But that's all very noble of you and I honor your right to bring up the issue of my motivation to share how bleak I see life. It's my truth, I never said this truth is the only truth. What if there are readers here who actually resonate with my truth? and actually get comfort knowing someone else feels this way, have you ever thought about that? I'm just one of those people that cannot hide my true feelings about being alive, and if being alive to me is unpleasant then I'm certaintly not going to pretend that it is anything but unpleasant.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:20 amDespite these ideas. So, I am bringing up the issue of your motivation for sharing ideas that at the very least have not put much of a dent in what you present as incredible suffering. And why you would announce that no on could change your personal philosophy, when it's not really helping you. And why you would also put these out as truths to others, who are perhaps not as closed as you are, when, in the end, despite having this outlook, or perhaps in part because of it, since you've said it goes back to childhood, you are still suffering immensely.
For me only, this is the way things are, and in no way am I expecting anyone who is reading my outlook on the way I see things, to be even the slightest bit interested in my bleak outlook, neither is anyone obliged to go along with it as being anything but my own personal experience, which has nothing to do with other peoples outlooks, everyone has their own outlook and I personally have no problem with any of them as I read about them, if I resonate with someones outlook I will, if I don't I wont, and nothing will change...just recently I had a lovely chat about life and personal things with Lacewing, and that's how I usually roll with conversations that I find engagingly interesting.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:20 amHere's the way things are. Here's the way things are. What you say cannot change my mind. Here's the way things are.
But it's not my scene, my language, the way Peter's posts is not my language, so why would I acknowledge something that is not in my vocabulary?Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:20 amThere were a couple of obvious things I pointed out in your posts: one related to Christianty as a whole and doubt, and one related to why someone might be upset in relation to inevitable things.
Not once in a long string of posts could you acknowledge that.
I really do not know what all the fuss is about, I simply do not believe, nor have ever pushed for a theory that there is anything remotely real as a religious or spiritual aspect within reality, the world to me, is made up as far as I see it, as nothing more than sentient flesh and bone material matter, and some non-sentient objects thrown in as well....all of which arises from nothing and returns to nothing reappearing from nothing.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:20 amA great tangential wandering, including non-relevant non-dualist ideas. Finally you agreed with one point, but could not acknowledge that it went against what you said. Just a simple human, oh, yeah, I see what you mean, right. While at the same time producing spiritual wisdom. It's odd and interesting and matches things I experience out in real life, sometimes when there are real stakes involved. But I explain this in general in the post with Walker.
I love your honesty.
Ah yes. I forgot to mention the black scenes where you just have to take it on faith whether there are actually any actors IN the scene or if the mumbling/whispering has been added later. I thought it was because I have a relatively cheap TV which wasn't picking up mumbling actors getting around in the dark.