Someone, everyone, please take this seriously.

[Dontaskme]

Human consciousness is under the spell of a cult leader.

Roy, I have subscribed to you channel...because I like to listen to all the nondual perspectives as each view is different in how it is delivered, and to be honest I like to be blown away, and I was literally blow away with what I was hearing from you.

I haven't known about you before, so had not seen any of your videos. Last night I was scrolling through them, and was particularly drawn to watch the one titled..
(Commentary on Leo and Curt's discussion, by Kali the destroyer of illusion (aka: roy dopson) )

Then when I had finnished watching it...I immediately threw myself into this one here...
( Part 2 of commentary on Leo's and Curt's discussion)

Only because I have watched quite a few of Leo Gura's video's but always found him to be a bit of an arrogant pompous and very impatient bad energy. It's like he believes in some infinity beyond infinity itself, which is absurd. He also bans people from his forum if they do not adhere to a certain standard of protocol that he has personally set-out that is not to be crossed and how dare anyone cross it. It's like he has this very firm ''..his way or the highway sort of mentality....''

He's even talked about how he has multiple awakenings and that each new awakening is greatly more significant and important than the last one, which again is an absurd notion to make. I mean how many awakenings does one need to see something that is basically very simple...it's just feeding into some idea that there is greater and greater realisations to discover, when there really isn't.

Anyways, I really enjoyed watching both those videos last night, I could not turn them off, because I was so intrigued to hear what you had to say about Leo Gura's nondual delivery..and to me, you completely blew my mind some of the things you were saying in defense of Curt..whom I actually like by the way, I think he is a really decent communicator. But as for Leo, it's like wtf, err, like NO, HELL NO.....JUST NO..Leo defo has the cult leader mentality.

And you made your critique of Leo very clear and precise in those two videos, so just wanted to say, well done, and to say I ageed with absolutely everything you were saying during the 3 person dialog which was very fascinating to watch, so thank-you for making them.


Keep up the good work. Hope you make more videos like that...they were brilliant. I can't remember the exact thing you said, but hearing it last night actually made me gulp a big sigh of emotional bliss that almost made me cry, I was welling up, and to be honest no one has had that sort of effect on me for a very long time, so I'm very delighted...and cannot wait to watch all the other videos you have made.

I hope you come back to chat on this thread Roy...

[Iwannaplato]

Even David Icke in his most incoherent moments makes more sense than RoyD.
Without reading back or trying to understand his garbles ramblings on Video try to summarise what he is trying to claim.
If you think he has achieved something profound then you ought to be able to say what it is?

I don't think it's in his videos or arguments. It's not something one summarizes.

My guess, as I said, is that he can achieve states of deep relaxation, that he can quiet his mind and not have it full of thoughts, which most people cannot do. That kind of stuff. How much this is worth for others is another issue and I don't think he has resolved enoughpsychological and interpersonal issues to be of much use to strangers or possibly even those near him. And deep meditative states don't lead to one being good at presentations or even philosophy unless one has developed in other areas.

I don't think those kinds of achievements are easy and I think there are few who can do that. But this does not a prophet, good communicator nor philosopher make. You need a range of other skills to help people, develop paradigm changing presentations and change the world. So far, he doesn't seem to have them. So, it's sort of the mental equivalent of an excellent marathon runner. Which doesn't make one a surgeon or Nobel Prize winning physiologist. It can be utterly wonderful for you, if that's your goal.

And the odd thing is, there have been people who believe something much like he does who had other skills. Personally it's not a direction I want to go in. I am pretty well versed in it and it's not for me, something hard for people who do believe what he believes to understand. But he is certainly not the second coming, since there are more like 15 who have managed to communicate orally or via books much better than him on the exact same outlook. And who likely were also excellent mental marathon runners.

I mean, Ken Wilber, for example, CAN write well and can synthesize a tremendous amount of information from many fields. Doesn't mean everyone should do what he says, but even having some fundamental disagreements with KW didn't stop me from getting a lot of insights about various thinkers, where they went wrong, and some tools for looking at other thinkers as they come along. If old Roydop were to ever come back I'd right off recommend he read some Ken Wilber. If he has read KW and still thinks he is the second coming, well....what can one do. (and please, to be trebly clear, I don't think Kew Wilber is the second coming.)

[reasonvemotion]

The language that you use was meaningless and made unintelligible by excessive use of technical terms.

In my case, might have been better received if simplified.

[Dontaskme]

The language that you use was meaningless and made unintelligible by excessive use of technical terms.

In my case, might have been better received if simplified.

Although that which is seemingly very simple is complicated. And that which is seemingly complicated is actually very simple.

Guys, we really need to stop bashing other people, we need to stop hurting people, and ourselves. Roy is right. The end of suffering is true, it's a real fact, it's not a pipe dream, it can and will happen, and it's our job to make it happen...Roy is right.

We have to be kind to each other, and not hurt each other, just as we do not want to hurt even a fly. Roy is right. I've never until now met someone who made so much sense than what Roy does when it comes to the problem of evil and suffering in the world.

I seriously cannot thank Roy enough right now..please just be kind and gentle with yourself and others.

Re: Someone, everyone, please take this seriously...please!

I'm never going to say a harsh CRUEL and unkind word to anyone here at this forum ever again.. NEVER!

[Harbal]

Roy is a fraud, in my opinion, and his “message” and videos are more likely part of a commercial enterprise than a philanthropic mission to save humanity. Again, I can’t help wondering why you just believe what Roy says about himself, especially as I don’t find him the least bit convincing.

I do not have to believe him. I'm just really fortunate to have become aware of his existence to be honest. And the way Roy speaks about what I am already quite familiar with anyway, surprisingly blew my mind to be honest, and I have to say there are not many nonduality teachers that can blow my mind, let me tell you. Something he did say actually took my breath away literally took my breath away, and that's rare for someone to do that.

He's made loads of videos. And so I am pleased to have discovered them. I wouldn't have even known about them if not for Roy starting this thread.

I am very familiar with the nondual message he is sharing. . I had no idea he had a Youtube channel until he created this thread. Last night I got to work out of curiousity, I was scrolling through his many videos. I was particularly drawn into the absolute clarity of his understanding regarding the absolute and nondual nature of existence. It was like all my christmases had come at once finding someone like Roy, I was like yes, yes, yes, someone who can actually put this message into words ''PROPERLY'' and 'perfectly'..the way it should be, and not just in a half arsed sloppy way, in an info bombing bamboozling sort of way used by other less skilled nondual speakers.. where you are being fed something that you only want to hear, rather than be told the actual real raw truth. . So I'm delighted to have found Roys videos. I have subscribed to his channel.

Take his appearance, for example: By his unnatural body shape it is clear that he spends a significant amount of time pumping iron, or whatever they call it. Working out at the gym is a trend that has been popular among certain types of men for a while now. It’s a sort of herd mentality; it is going along with the crowd, and suggests a tendency to be influenced by others, which is precisely what he is criticising the rest of us for.

I'm not that cynical about things like that. As far as I am aware Roy is a Canadian Firefighter by trade, that's his job. He's a Fireman. So it makes sense to me why his frame would be of a muscular and strong nature..appearances are deceptive though, it seems.

You are missing the point. Nobody is telling you not to go along with Roy if you like what he is saying. On the other hand, I am being told I am delusional if I don't go along with him. When somebody says something to you that you don't like, how do you usually react?

I was like yes, yes, yes, someone who can actually put this message into words ''PROPERLY'' and 'perfectly'..the way it should be, and not just in a half arsed sloppy way, in an info bombing bamboozling sort of way used by other less skilled nondual speakers.. where you are being fed something that you only want to hear, rather than be told the actual real raw truth.

I didn't find him to be a skilled speaker. I thought he was rather clumsy, and there were a few moments in his videos when he gave me the impression that he didn't really understand what he was saying. I almost laughed at the way he kept pointing to a chart that wasn't even visible on the screen. So, no, I don't think he made a very good job of putting his message across, but that isn't what I'm complaining about.

Roy's videos are only about a way of looking at the world, which is neither true nor false. It is just one of many ways to think about life and existence. I have my own way of looking at things, which is more valuable to me than Roy's way would be, even though I don't try to make it sound more respectable by calling it a system. The thing is, though; I don't call people delusional just because they don't see everything the same way that I do, and I don't come onto the forum trying to promote my private enterprises by falsely presenting them as gifts to mankind.

[Iwannaplato]

Personally, I think he's just pullin' a big goof on folks.

I doubt that. IOW I doubt that he is thinking - hej I think I'll prank some people...or any similar type thought. I think he believes what he says, including what he says about himself. But this is speculative.

[Sculptor]

Anyone who thinks we are "pigs" is either crazy or insulting.
So which is worse? Me calling a crazy person crazy, or Roy being insulting?
My view is that his ideas are, in fact, crazy. It the sort of angst many small children have to go through when they learn that many words have multiple meanings. Just because they over come that problem whilst Roy has not oes not make them "pigs". On the contrary it makes them far more pragmatic and intelligent.

An insult does tend to detract from any other message, however, your insult to Roy is more justified than Roy's insult to you, because your insult has no intent to end humanity's woes, that is, unless you think that your insult will silence Roy and that silence will benefit humanity.

I'm at a loss to see how Roy insulting you will end humanity's woes, if insulting is indeed the practice of his view.

There is no issue here concerning the end of humanity's woes. Since nothing either of us is going to do will hinge on that in any way.
I'm puzzled at how you have so easily adopted his bogus agenda.
Even if we shot each other in the face, it would have zero impact on any aspect of humanity, except immediate acquaintances and family.

Calling his views crazy is me being honest. Since I think he is going to have zero impact I have no reason to attack him. But as always I tell the truth as I see it.

[Sculptor]

Even David Icke in his most incoherent moments makes more sense than RoyD.
Without reading back or trying to understand his garbles ramblings on Video try to summarise what he is trying to claim.
If you think he has achieved something profound then you ought to be able to say what it is?

I don't think it's in his videos or arguments. It's not something one summarizes.

What is "it" in your first sentence?
What it is, that is it, that is not in his arguments or videos?
Why can you not summarise?
If he has an idea then you ought to be able to convey what that is, otherwise its no more than rambling nonsense.

My guess, as I said, is that he can achieve states of deep relaxation, that he can quiet his mind and not have it full of thoughts, which most people cannot do.

That's absurd.
Given the content of his posts, he is clearly anything other than relaxed.

That kind of stuff.

What "kind" of stuff"?

How much this is worth for others is another issue and I don't think he has resolved enoughpsychological and interpersonal issues to be of much use to strangers or possibly even those near him. And deep meditative states don't lead to one being good at presentations or even philosophy unless one has developed in other areas.

He is in a state of confusion, and trying to undermine the only thing capable of giving clarity to the world; language itself.
You have no justification nor evidence for making these claims.
RoyD is a deeply disturbed person, possibly schizophrenic.
He is inviting ridicule and derision, which is most likely going to lead him to more personal harm.
His chains of thought remind me much of my brother who suffered from schizophrenia his whole adult life.

I don't think those kinds of achievements are easy and I think there are few who can do that. But this does not a prophet, good communicator nor philosopher make. You need a range of other skills to help people, develop paradigm changing presentations and change the world. So far, he doesn't seem to have them. So, it's sort of the mental equivalent of an excellent marathon runner. Which doesn't make one a surgeon or Nobel Prize winning physiologist. It can be utterly wonderful for you, if that's your goal.

He has nothing but mental confusion. He is not a genius.

[bobmax]

Mathematics is perhaps the best manifestation of logical / rational thinking.
It is precious, because it is indispensable for our interpretation of how the world works.

However, it is a grave misunderstanding to consider mathematics an absolute truth.

Mathematics is only a useful tool.
And like all tools it is used to take a few steps forward, but then it has to be abandoned.

Cantor diagonal argument is essentially incorrect.
In fact, it treats the infinite as if it were a thing. Which is absurd!

[Dontaskme]

If he has read KW and still thinks he is the second coming, well....what can one do.

I do not think that metaphor ( second coming ) should ever be taken literally as pertaining to a personal ''someone'' who is the ONLY one clued-up as to the nondual nature of reality.
The metaphor is about all of us as a collective consciousness. It's pointing to the idea that we can all change our minds about anything we think we know about the nature of being, we can all die right now and be born again to a new way of looking at ourselves and who we believe we are, in that we are our own judge and jury through personal direct experience, and that we are all responsible for are own actions, we reap what we sow, and we can only hurt ourself not others. To know truth we must die to our ego and be born again in unity and brotherhood, and see through the illusion of separation, to see we are all the same one conscious entity, breathing the same air and bleeding the same red blood, and that whatever we do to the part, we do to the whole, and that we should treat each other as we want to be treated ourself. . we all ought to be cited for our own efforts to correct our wayward unruly ways, and to become in perfect phase with the nondual truth of our being, and truly believe it is possible, eventually.


.

[Iwannaplato]

What is "it" in your first sentence?

The same 'it' in the last sentence of what I quoted from you.

If you think he has achieved something profound then you ought to be able to say what it is?

I mean, my it came right after your it. Your 'it' in a question. My 'it' a statement.

What it is, that is it, that is not in his arguments or videos?
Why can you not summarise?
If he has an idea then you ought to be able to convey what that is, otherwise its no more than rambling nonsense.

I don't think I said it was an idea - as can be seen in what you quoted - and then I go on in the post you are responding to here to explain. Why leave in this part of your post when the answer comes later in the post. Yes, you disagreed to what I wrote later, but why leave this waste in? (rhetorical, I'm not interested in the why, for you to mull or not)

He is in a state of confusion, and trying to undermine the only thing capable of giving clarity to the world; language itself.
You have no justification nor evidence for making these claims.

I said it was a guess. Did you read what I wrote. Further, it seems that for you it is binary. There are problems, so he is merely in a state of confusion. It might be the case. But you just state it and a pure and simple truth. But you want justification for my claims. My claims that I call a guess.

Ah, here's he Sculptor I know. Well, it was a nice hiatus, but you're back.

RoyD is a deeply disturbed person, possibly schizophrenic.

I doubt that he is a schizophrenic. He might be deeply disturbed.

He is inviting ridicule and derision, which is most likely going to lead him to more personal harm.

Pretty much anyone posting anything these days is inviting those things.

His chains of thought remind me much of my brother who suffered from schizophrenia his whole adult life.

He has nothing but mental confusion. He is not a genius.
[/quote]Oh, gosh. What a good point. Only I didn't call him a genius. You seem to think mental only deals with IQ.

I'm sorry about your brother, I know from personal and professional experience that having a family member with schizophrenia can be unbelievably painful. One's own pain from what happens and empathetic pain and helplessness on their account. It isn't always that bad but it can be.

I doubt Roy Dopson is a schizophrenic. But there wasn't enough interaction here for me to be sure. He does not seem to be one in his other videos. He seems to coherent in his interview, for example. But it could have been a good day.

That he 'has nothing but mental confusion' is also a guess. But I suppose that's good enough for the goose, for some reason.

I'm gonna ignore you for a while. It's seems like it is extremes with you, complete dismissals or, somewhat tolerated acceptance. I haven't really seen anything else. Probably occasionally the right assessments on your part, though here I doubt it, but it's unpleasant to deal with - oh, God, will the response include a 'the truth can be unpleasant' useless rejoinder?

Well, I won't know.

[Iwannaplato]

If he has read KW and still thinks he is the second coming, well....what can one do.

I do not think that metaphor ( second coming ) should ever be taken literally as pertaining to a personal ''someone'' who is the ONLY one clued-up as to the nondual nature of reality.
The metaphor is about all of us as a collective consciousness. It's pointing to the idea that we can all change our minds about anything we think we know about the nature of being, we can all die right now and be born again to a new way of looking at ourselves and who we believe we are, in that we are our own judge and jury through personal direct experience, and that we are all responsible for are own actions, we reap what we sow, and we can only hurt ourself not others. To know truth we must die to our ego and be born again in unity and brotherhood, and see through the illusion of separation, to see we are all the same one conscious entity, breathing the same air and bleeding the same red blood, and that whatever we do to the part, we do to the whole, and that we should treat each other as we want to be treated ourself. . we all ought to be cited for our own efforts to correct our wayward unruly ways, and to become in perfect phase with the nondual truth of our being, and truly believe it is possible, eventually.

It's very kind of you in relation to his statement. But it doesn't really make sense. There many published, recorded and even active non-dualists who have thousands to many millions of followers, so it shouldn't matter, that he is not recognized. If fact he might want to consider it a kind of feedback.

And, again, this is your interpretation of what he means. It seems quite possible he will not come back to sort out these things, but at this point it seems like a guess.

You explanation does not really fit this other quote...

roy dopson is the greatest philosopher of all time and the wisdom he shares continues to go unrecognized by academia

If I had hair I would be pulling it out

[Dontaskme]

You are missing the point. Nobody is telling you not to go along with Roy if you like what he is saying. On the other hand, I am being told I am delusional if I don't go along with him. When somebody says something to you that you don't like, how do you usually react?

Well if he telling you you are delusional then he is also telling me I am delusional. But that doesn't change my mind about Roy one iota. I happen to agree with him, that people are delusional, and that they have been lied to repeatedly all their life about who they are. I do not believe Roy is saying for one minute that until you see the world the way I personally see it then you are all delusion. I see it differently, for me, Roy is pointing to a deeper truth that is often overlooked because of a delusion that we have all fallen for hook, line and sinker, since the day we were born. Our parents have well and truly fed our egos, and so it's as though we know no different way to be.

What might Roy mean by ''Delusion'' (an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality.) Which to be fair, is an accurate assessment considering humans are egoic by nature. We are definitely under the spell of do what I say and not what I do, listen to me and do as I say mentality, we are all plugged into some kind of matrix mentality where there is a perpretator / victim kind of delusion taking over the whole human education system which is made up soley of a rote learning system, and damned are those who dare to ever upset the apple cart and think outside the box.

I didn't find him to be a skilled speaker. I thought he was rather clumsy, and there were a few moments in his videos when he gave me the impression that he didn't really understand what he was saying. I almost laughed at the way he kept pointing to a chart that wasn't even visible on the screen. So, no, I don't think he made a very good job of putting his message across, but that isn't what I'm complaining about.

Roy's videos are only about a way of looking at the world, which is neither true nor false. It is just one of many ways to think about life and existence. I have my own way of looking at things, which is more valuable to me than Roy's way would be, even though I don't try to make it sound more respectable by calling it a system. The thing is, though; I don't call people delusional just because they don't see everything the same way that I do, and I don't come onto the forum trying to promote my private enterprises by falsely presenting them as gifts to mankind.

Ok, Harbal, of course you are entitled to your opinion and that's fine - but I don't agree with you here, and that's fine too.

[Dontaskme]

And, again, this is your interpretation of what he means. It seems quite possible he will not come back to sort out these things, but at this point it seems like a guess.

I really hope he does come back, but then my commonsense is telling me that he will want to stay away, and not get too mired into all the back and forth, going absolutely nowhere mental noise that is philosophical disscusion, which is delusion anyway...so I cannot blame him for not wanting to get caught up in that trap...that said, I hope he's still reading the comments left of his threads, to see that he is changing the minds of some people, namely mine.

You explanation does not really fit this other quote...

roy dopson is the greatest philosopher of all time and the wisdom he shares continues to go unrecognized by academia

If I had hair I would be pulling it out

I fail to see the relevance of this quote has in relation to what I said...So who said Roy was greastest philospher of all time? do you know who said that?

[Harbal]

What might Roy mean by ''Delusion'' (an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality.) Which to be fair, is an accurate assessment considering humans are egoic by nature. We are definitely under the spell of do what I say and not what I do, listen to me and do as I say mentality, we are all plugged into some kind of matrix mentality where there is a perpretator / victim kind of delusion taking over the whole human education system which is made up soley of a rote learning system, and damned are those who dare to ever upset the apple cart and think outside the box.

Don't you see how ironic this is? What is Roy doing if he isn't saying, "do as I say"? Roy wants you to stop doing what someone else says, and start doing what he says. And Roy isn't encouraging you to "think outside the box", he is trying to get you to think inside his box.