Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:21 pm
Maybe I picked it up from Andrew Cuomo.tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:16 pm Have a long hard think, Immanuel Can; when did you start using the term "cancel culture"?
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the limits of fascism
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Re: the limits of socialism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:16 pm
*Not me.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:33 am*Oh, so you are knee-jerking at a word for which you don't even have a standard definition? Hilarious!henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:12 pm Then, as I say: define socialism then point to a successful implementation of it.
**What is there to "implement" exactly if different people mean different things by that word?
***Humor me this: if something was defined, designed, conceptualised and called "capitalism" on paper, but once implemented one couldn't tell the difference from socialism, then... is that capitalism or socialism?
***Sumthin' else.
henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:03 pm The inherently bad version of socialism you're attacking is not mine nor accepted by any self-claimed socialist i've ever met. So i find no need for a defense against your contentions.
...and...
**It's pretty easy to make up those stats when anything that fails is classified as "socialism" and anything that succeeds is classified as "not socialism".
**All this is easy to check: define socialism then point to a successful implementation of it.
Skep, Advocate?
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:19 pm
*You mebbe want read the exchange again cuz you got it all backwards.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:45 amIf that's the grounds on which you dismiss the example as "that's not socialism" , then none of your favourites (Cuba, Venezuela, USSR, Vietnam, North Korea, China etc.) were socialist.henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:54 am Nope. Like our PBS (among other things), the BBC and NHS are publicly supported for but not publicly controlled.
Taxpayers foot the bill, but someone else calls the shots.
Least you want to explain to us how exactly the average joe in any of those hellholes was "calling the shots".
*If "public control" is a necessary property of socialism then there never have been any socialist countries. Ever. You know... "That's wasn't true socialism"
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:54 pm
Can a *person decline to pay the fees or taxes funding the BBC and NHS?tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:09 pmAs it happens both the BBC and NHS are under constant pressure from the Conservative Party who would like nothing better than to sell them off to the highest bidder. The fact that they haven't yet done so is because either move would be deeply unpopular with the electorate. We have plenty of choices, but most of us choose to keep the BBC and NHS and have to struggle to do so. So no, theft is not a term I would use for paying for something that you think is good value.henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:42 amIf you dislike slavery, how about theft instead?
good value: more like only option.
Hobson's choice.
*Brit? Britisher? What's the proper term?
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:39 pm
They were right wing. There was no left wing except amongst the abolishionists.
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:40 pm
Cancel culture is yet another right wing myth like "cultural marxism". Such concepts only exist to disguise the cancellations and draconian measures of the right.tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:16 pmImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:51 pmHowever, I'm curious about the new term "woke supremacy," which is now becoming current.Have a long hard think, Immanuel Can; when did you start using the term "cancel culture"? My guess is after hearing it four or five times on Fox News or some other right wing network. Once "woke supremacy" has reverberated around your right wing echo chamber a few times, you will be applying it to anyone to the left of Adolf Hitler with the same casual aplomb.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:51 pm But you're now out of step with the "cancel culture" of the Left.
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:35 pm
You've got it anachronistic now.
There was no Socialism at all, not even among the abolitionists. It hadn't been invented yet. But there were slave owners; and every single one of them was a Democrat. And there came to be a KKK, which was again 100% Democrat.
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:43 pm
Andrew Cuomo believes in cancel culture. He thinks it's come for him. And "Cultural Marxism" is actually a flag of the Left, not an invention of the right. As for "woke supremacy," I Don Lemmon of CNN was using the phrase this morning, complaining he didn't like being it. And as for "race," the only people who even talk about it nowadays are on the Left. The rest of us have grown up and moved on, pretty much like MLK wanted us to.
Re: the limits of socialism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:49 pm
OK... if the criterion for "socialism" is owning the means of production and "people having a say", then the USA is a socialist country.henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:16 pm*Not me.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:33 am*Oh, so you are knee-jerking at a word for which you don't even have a standard definition? Hilarious!henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:12 pm Then, as I say: define socialism then point to a successful implementation of it.
**What is there to "implement" exactly if different people mean different things by that word?
***Humor me this: if something was defined, designed, conceptualised and called "capitalism" on paper, but once implemented one couldn't tell the difference from socialism, then... is that capitalism or socialism?
***Sumthin' else.
henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:03 pm The inherently bad version of socialism you're attacking is not mine nor accepted by any self-claimed socialist i've ever met. So i find no need for a defense against your contentions.
...and...
**It's pretty easy to make up those stats when anything that fails is classified as "socialism" and anything that succeeds is classified as "not socialism".
**All this is easy to check: define socialism then point to a successful implementation of it.
Skep, Advocate?
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:50 pm
Then why did you make that claim by accusing Democrats of being slavers.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:35 pmYou've got it anachronistic now.
There was no Socialism at all, not even among the abolitionists.
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:51 pm
Please citeImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:43 pmAndrew Cuomo believes in cancel culture. He thinks it's come for him.
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:01 am
Because the Democrats were Democrats. But they were not Socialists, at that time, because no such thing existed. They were plantation owners, slave dealers, Southern bureaucrats, and yes, KKK Grand Dragons. That's all on the Democrats.
None of that ever had a thing to do with the Republicans, although abolition, emancipation, and desegregation certainly did. The Democrats had no part in those things. They were too busy fighting to keep slavery going and segregation in place.
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:03 am
Seriously?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/nyre ... gress.htmlYou should acquaint yourself with a marvellous tool called "Google" sometime.
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:25 am
DuhImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:01 amBecause the Democrats were Democrats. But they were not Socialists, at that time, because no such thing existed. They were plantation owners, slave dealers, Southern bureaucrats, and yes, KKK Grand Dragons. That's all on the Democrats.
None of that ever had a thing to do with the Republicans, although abolition, emancipation, and desegregation certainly did. The Democrats had no part in those things. They were too busy fighting to keep slavery going and segregation in place.
Re: the limits of fascism
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:28 am
Does not change what I said.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:03 amSeriously?Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:51 pmPlease citeImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:43 pm
Andrew Cuomo believes in cancel culture. He thinks it's come for him.
You should acquaint yourself with a marvellous tool called "Google" sometime.
Let's face it, he's used his position to persue his career as a sexual predator, he can try to use a right wing trope to defend himself, but he's a c+nt and has to take responsibility for his actions. He's pretending victimhood. He's not the victim.