Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote:

But my point was/is always, this one here, me, puts all my trust in the one that made this one here, namely,me the not so fallible artefact.

How did it learn such a skill, who taught it to do this, did it read how to do it from a philosophy, science, physics, biology, geography, maths text book or maybe it read how to do it from the bible or the koran?

I mean...just who was/is it that wrote the very first book?

It is not exactly known how much knowledge is innate and how much is learned.However how to breathe, swallow, blink your eyes, pull back your hand that you have just scalded, give birth, recover from influenza, mend a broken bone, lactate, regulate your blood pressure and so on is all knowledge that is born in us and requires no learning.

Some people think that fear of spiders is born in some of us. Some people think that the basics of human language are born in us and require no learning.
I don't know much about how learning takes place but I think it has a lot to do with how we form memories and concepts. Forming concepts has everything to do with which society and which culture of belief we belonged to when we were young and forming most of the ideas that have stuck to us.

Who wrote the first book is a part of the history of ideas, and man's technological past. Usually ideas evolve gradually and according to technology. There was writing on stones before there were books. Maybe the first book was written by monks on calf skins.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:34 pmMaybe the first book was written by monks on calf skins.

All books are unwritten. Many authors appear but only one reader reads the stories no one ever writ.

What appears to be written as imaged via letters and symbols apparently appearing external to the reader is actually appearing in the one reader which is the same reader in all of us as one. The one who imagines it is writing the story is part of the unwritten story appearing in the one reader.

Right now every one reading this thread can see this post appearing in vision. As seeing awareness the words are read the same for all of us. No one ever wrote a word. Knowledge is an illusory dream story appearing real as it is read by the one reader which is awareness that we all have.

Writing can appear anywhere, in a book, on a wall, on a chalkboard, on a receipt, on a newspaper, on the internet etc.......and every eye which is really one eye will read the same words that are appearing on those things, just as we're all as one reading the same stories and seeing the same words as they appear now in this post.

The one who imagines it is the writer is actually a character in the story appearing to be the writer inseparable from the immutable reader aka awareness.

In the same context a story cannot be separated from the book. Awareness is the book, the story aka knowledge is the contents of awareness...inseparable.


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Dontaskme wrote:

All books are unwritten. Many authors appear but only one reader reads the stories no one ever writ.

What you mean(I take it) is that when a reader reads a book the reader's understanding of it is the reader's interpretation and hers alone.

This is true to some extent. However each of us is not an original. On the contrary each of us knows and understands what she knows partly because of her cultural background.

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:19 am Dontaskme wrote:

All books are unwritten. Many authors appear but only one reader reads the stories no one ever writ.

What you mean(I take it) is that when a reader reads a book the reader's understanding of it is the reader's interpretation and hers alone.

This is true to some extent. However each of us is not an original. On the contrary each of us knows and understands what she knows partly because of her cultural background.

Each one of us as a dream character, as this assumed entity, is a unique, original, never to be repeated, dream character experience of the one immutable dreamer, which cannot be experienced. Interpretation of how that experience appears is just another part of the dream, and the dream is all there is. No one is writing the dream story, for the writer is part of the dream itself and can only appear within the dream as every conceivable story is evidenced in the experience which cannot be experienced for there is no one but yourself appearing here now as this self-evident experiencing.

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Dontaskme wrote:

Each one of us as a dream character, as this assumed entity, is a unique, original, never to be repeated, dream character experience of the one immutable dreamer, which cannot be experienced. Interpretation of how that experience appears is just another part of the dream, and the dream is all there is. No one is writing the dream story, for the writer is part of the dream itself and can only appear within the dream as every conceivable story is evidenced in the experience which cannot be experienced for there is no one but yourself appearing here now as this self-evident experiencing.

Are cultural beliefs part of the dream? Is the idea that one is influenced by others also part of the dream?
I am sorry that you won't learn the usual terminology for what you believe (above). If you did know the usual terminology you would have saved yourself a lot of energy and time. What you describe , above, is called idealism, just in case you are interested.

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:23 pm
Are cultural beliefs part of the dream? Is the idea that one is influenced by others also part of the dream?
I am sorry that you won't learn the usual terminology for what you believe (above). If you did know the usual terminology you would have saved yourself a lot of energy and time. What you describe , above, is called idealism, just in case you are interested.

Well there is here only ideas, and ideas about ideas...what is an idea?..I've no idea.

Is your idea greater than mine?...is my idea greater than yours?....I've no idea.

Idealism, the cherishing or pursuit of high or noble principles, purposes, goals, etc.

Except my principles are empty. But feel free to fill them up to suit your ideal...okay I will

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Dontaskme, by idealism I meant philosophic idealism as in definition number 2, below.

idealism

1.
the unrealistic belief in or pursuit of perfection.
"the idealism of youth"
synonyms: utopianism, wishful thinking, romanticism, fantasizing, quixotism, daydreaming, impracticability More
2.
PHILOSOPHY
any of various systems of thought in which the objects of knowledge are held to be in some way dependent on the activity of mind.

Dontaskme wrote:All books are unwritten. Many authors appear but only one reader reads the stories no one ever writ.

What appears to be written as imaged via letters and symbols apparently appearing external to the reader is actually appearing in the one reader which is the same reader in all of us as one. The one who imagines it is writing the story is part of the unwritten story appearing in the one reader.

Right now every one reading this thread can see this post appearing in vision. As seeing awareness the words are read the same for all of us. ...

No they are not. This is why I ask you what is happening in your mind when you have a thought? As you seem to think that because the word is read the meaning is the same.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:58 pm

Dontaskme wrote:All books are unwritten. Many authors appear but only one reader reads the stories no one ever writ.

What appears to be written as imaged via letters and symbols apparently appearing external to the reader is actually appearing in the one reader which is the same reader in all of us as one. The one who imagines it is writing the story is part of the unwritten story appearing in the one reader.

Right now every one reading this thread can see this post appearing in vision. As seeing awareness the words are read the same for all of us. ...

No they are not. This is why I ask you what is happening in your mind when you have a thought? As you seem to think that because the word is read the meaning is the same.

We're all reading the same words...never said anything about the meaning of the words being the same though did I?

Dontaskme wrote:We're all reading the same words...never said anything about the meaning of the words being the same though did I?

I thought you said you were heavily dyslexic? So no we aren't.

Are you now able to tell me what happens to you when you have a thought? That is, what happens when you have a thought and how do you think to yourself?

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:12 pm

Dontaskme wrote:We're all reading the same words...never said anything about the meaning of the words being the same though did I?

I thought you said you were heavily dyslexic? So no we aren't.

Are you now able to tell me what happens to you when you have a thought? That is, what happens when you have a thought and how do you think to yourself?

Every thought is triggered by the preceding thought...you can feel the effects of thought very vividly

Dontaskme wrote:Every thought is triggered by the preceding thought...you can feel the effects of thought very vividly

Effects such as?

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:44 pm

Dontaskme wrote:Every thought is triggered by the preceding thought...you can feel the effects of thought very vividly

Effects such as?

Dread,fear,excitement,gooey sensations in your tummy, terror,despair,hope....to name but a few.

Dontaskme wrote:Dread,fear,excitement,gooey sensations in your tummy, terror,despair,hope....to name but a few.

Ok. So you think and thought with your feelings then?

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:32 pm

Dontaskme wrote:Dread,fear,excitement,gooey sensations in your tummy, terror,despair,hope....to name but a few.

Ok. So you think and thought with your feelings then?

There is no one or thing who owns thoughts or any thing else, all things are just intangible invisible arising's appearing here now nowhere to no one or thing. That there is a you to own anything is an idea too. When you think of where you could have come from or who you are..then you've only got to follow it back to the atom...and then look at the space in which every atom resides. It's just empty space everywhere. Simply, there is nothing here to make anything out of. We've come from nothing, are nothing. Now, obviously, space is not empty, and yet it does certainly look as if it is, but as you can see, it's empty fullness. It's nothing being everything. Can you see there is no room for two here. All is one.

Now...you're actually invisible, because you can't see what has made you what you are, you can only see the effects of a causer, you can't see the causer, when you say well, look I'm waving my hand from side to side,look I'm making this happen, well, all you are doing is watching the effect of a moving hand happening, you can't see the I that is the causer, because I is just a concept, an idea arising in you.. That's because who you really are is invisible, you are the invisible watching your visible reflection, effect of a causeless causer. I'm simply talking about infinite regress here.

Once you realise you are nothing more than just ''pure presence'' .. in which..images, thoughts, feelings, sensations, beliefs, interpretations, perceptions, preferences, choices, decisions, planning, plotting, creating, hating, loving, negative and positive emotions, to name but a few attributes of the human condition...once you realise that all the things mentioned are not the ''pure presence'' but arise in it without ever effecting or harming it in any shape or form...and as this ''presence'' you can simply watch all what I've just mentioned appear and dissolve all on their own accord...and that you as ''pure presence'' are not making any of it happen, you will see that what is apparently happening as and through you..is all just a passing show in and out of you leaving you totally unscathed. Every event is determined by it's precursor predicted event following on from what came before as this endless continuous seamless flow that is life living itself.. Every mood or thought triggered by some prior preceding feeling or other, since no sudden mood can just appear without a cause...the human condition is made up of the effects of a causeless causer arising and dissolving in the ''pure presence of beingness'' or another word for this is ''boundless space''

All this writing and typing is just appearing to happen out of the boundlessness of space. There is no doer, yet nothing is left undone... the external stimuli triggers the idea there is a ''separate'' you here perceiving and doing... but the external is inseparable from the ONE seeing presence and that just points to an unidentified self-sustaining feedback loop like the mobius strip.


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