The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 3:37 am

What you are forgetting...

I'm forgetting nothing. What you're forgetting is the entire history of the Dems.

IC, American political parties shift over time. This is just as true of the Republicans as the Democrats.

The Republican Party of today little resembles either the Republican Party when the Progressives controlled it (think of Republicans like Theodore Roosevelt, the La Follettes*, or Fiorello LaGuardia) or the Republican Party of my youth (fiscally conservative but socially liberal)

The shift of the Democratic Party "leftward" can be traced to an actual event (the 1911 Triangle Fire) and the famously corrupt Tammany Hall machine's unwillingness to allow the resulting public outrage to boost the Socialists at their expense. How that dragged the Dems first of NYC, then NY state, then the national party to side with workers on labor issues.

US political parties are ideological constants only in the short term, a few decades. When I was young, the "Dixiecrats" were part of the Democrat Party. Now they are part of the Republican Party. When I was young, Vermont was a Republican state and now it's a Democrat state but it's not the politics of Vermonters that changed so much as the parties.

* "The New Deal" concept originated with the La Folettes of WI -- Progressives (note upper case P) were in FDR's cabinet, essentially a national unity cabinet.

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 5:31 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 3:37 am

What you are forgetting...

I'm forgetting nothing. What you're forgetting is the entire history of the Dems.

IC, American political parties shift over time. This is just as true of the Republicans as the Democrats.

What's your evidence of this "shift"?

The shift of the Democratic Party "leftward" can be traced to an actual event (the 1911 Triangle Fire) and the famously corrupt Tammany Hall machine's unwillingness to allow the resulting public outrage to boost the Socialists at their expense. How that dragged the Dems first of NYC, then NY state, then the national party to side with workers on labor issues.

This was before Jim Crow, before the KKK, before Segregation, before open borders and their betrayal of their union allies, before gerrymandering, before transgenderism, before abortion, before opposition to ID...if the Dem party ever started "loving" America, I'd like to know when that was; it sure wasn't in 1911.

When I was young, the "Dixiecrats" were part of the Democrat Party. Now they are part of the Republican Party.

This actually never happened. There was only one Dixiecrat who changed sides: Strom Thurmond (Sept., 1964) The rest stayed exactly where they were, at home in the Democrat Party. Check it out.

* "The New Deal" concept originated with the La Folettes of WI -- Progressives (note upper case P) were in FDR's cabinet, essentially a national unity cabinet.

I wouldn't be proud of that, were I you. It's been nothing but a disaster.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 5:25 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 3:25 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 3:17 am
...you can only think of blaming 'the Democrats'.

Read the headline. This thread is about the Dems. And "religion" has nothing to do with their complicity in slavery, the KKK, Segregation, open borders, gerrymandering, or any of the many other things they've historically done.

Aside from the border control concern, your criticisms don't appear to make sense at first glance.

1. If the Democrats are still complicit in racism...

There's two types of racism: the explicit kind, and the implicit kind: the kind you announce, and the kind you just practice. The Dems realized the former would keep them in the minority; but they could safely use the latter to achieve their own political ends.

So, taking over the education system (and wrecking it), the Dems have misled the public and have denied their complicity with slavery, the KKK and Segregation, and then have attempted to rewrite themselves as champions of minority rights. But implicitly, they still have the greatest contempt for minorities, and gladly use promises of benefits that never arrive to keep them voting Democrat. They use blacks and women precisely because they believe them to be more manipulable. (Hispanics, as a group, have proved less manipulable than the Dems hoped, but still useable.)

Meanwhile, they advocate crippling minority policies, such as subsidizing single motherhood, breaking up black families, excusing criminality in poor communities, disproportionately subsidizing abortions for blacks, and using all the nonsense about reparations, "affirmative action" and "white supremacy" to keep minorities, resentful, dependent, and voting Democrat...hardly an endorsement of their new 'anti-racism.' But their demonizing of whites, men, heterosexuals, the religious and conservatives is yet another type of racism they use to achieve their ends. They're still on the game: just covertly, not overtly.

2. If the Democrats are wrong to gerrymander, does that make it wrong when the Republicans gerrymander, or is it only wrong when the Democrats do it?

As the Supreme Court has pointed out, it's wrong to form voting districts by way of racism. And that's exactly what you can see the Dem gerrymander did, if you just look at voting maps -- pulling together geographically-distant groups of voters for no other reason that they're black or Hispanic, and not impartially, because they're all American. If the other party is reversing the Dem grift, that's just democracy at work.

As we have come to expect, Manny is misinformed, and is soiling the PhiNowForum with his ignorance.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 6:04 pm There was only one Dixiecrat who changed sides: Strom Thurmond (Sept., 1964) The rest stayed exactly where they were …

I can’t imagine where he got that gobbet from but I can say it’s bullsh*t.

mickthinks wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 8:42 pm As we have come to expect, Manny is misinformed, and is soiling the PhiNowForum with his ignorance.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 6:04 pm There was only one Dixiecrat who changed sides: Strom Thurmond (Sept., 1964) The rest stayed exactly where they were …

I can’t imagine where he got that gobbet from but I can say it’s bullsh*t.

You're right! A year later, one more switched, so later, that would make two.

Big deal.
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00 ... -SD003.pdf

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2026 5:04 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2026 2:49 pm The hatred of the Democrat Party for America is obvious, and has been proven by events.

Well, it's a bit paradoxical. It depends what we mean by "America."

The Democrat Party Hates America
- Mark Levine
Chapter One, page 1

“America is unraveling. Our founding and history are under assault. Our families and faiths are being degraded. Individualism has been substituted for groupism. Color blindness is now racist. Capitalism and prosperity are being devoured by economic socialism and climate-change fanaticism. Classrooms have become indoctrination mills for racism, segregation, bigotry, and sexual perversion, and teachers' unions are hostile to parental involvement in critical decisions about the health and welfare of their freedom.”

The author continues on with the list. It’s a few more paragraphs, the hypothesis for the book, which the book then goes on to back up with extensive footnoting of the Democrats' words and actions as proof. I’ll copy the rest of what's under attack by Democrats, according to the author, if you like.

One can derive the meaning of America by what is under assault.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 2:00 pm It's a temptation to want to speak truth to ignorance and dishonesty, and it can be entertaining to put it into words. But, yes, there are more productive paths to take elsewhere.

It's a temptation that I indulge.

In the big picture, enough elsewheres lead to no matter where you go there you are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCRiNc06V0c

Chapter 1, continued.

In America, free speech and academic freedom are shrinking, and the police state is growing – as is monitoring and spying on citizens. The government is banning and regulating more and more household products, from incandescent lightbulbs to dishwashers, which creating shortages and driving up costs of others. Crime is out of control on our streets, public transportation, and schools, while police budgets are slashed and many prosecutors and judges coddle violent criminals. Our borders are wide open to millions of foreigners who seek entry into the country, as drug and criminal cartels ship killer drugs into our country by the tons and brutalize migrants by using them as indentured servants and sex slaves. And the list goes on.

The Democrat Party is responsible for most of this and much more.”

Probably why Trump was elected.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 11:41 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2026 5:04 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2026 2:49 pm The hatred of the Democrat Party for America is obvious, and has been proven by events.

Well, it's a bit paradoxical. It depends what we mean by "America."

The Democrat Party Hates America
- Mark Levine
Chapter One, page 1

“America is unraveling. Our founding and history are under assault. Our families and faiths are being degraded. Individualism has been substituted for groupism. Color blindness is now racist. Capitalism and prosperity are being devoured by economic socialism and climate-change fanaticism. Classrooms have become indoctrination mills for racism, segregation, bigotry, and sexual perversion, and teachers' unions are hostile to parental involvement in critical decisions about the health and welfare of their freedom.”

The author continues on with the list. It’s a few more paragraphs, the hypothesis for the book, which the book then goes on to back up with extensive footnoting of the Democrats' words and actions as proof. I’ll copy the rest of what's under attack by Democrats, according to the author, if you like.

One can derive the meaning of America by what is under assault.

Another Fox News hooligan and mercenary making a mucho amount of $$$/year. The real danger to Moronica (previously known as America) and now the lunatic Capital of the Western World, is the over-abundance of idiots, a majority of whom are Jesus freaks...but at least the price of eggs have gone down.

It would be interesting to know instead what someone like Thomas Paine or any of the Founding Fathers would say about the degradation of the US under the current administration and its main protagonists.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 9:51 pm

mickthinks wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 8:42 pm As we have come to expect, Manny is misinformed, and is soiling the PhiNowForum with his ignorance.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2026 6:04 pm There was only one Dixiecrat who changed sides: Strom Thurmond (Sept., 1964) The rest stayed exactly where they were …

I can’t imagine where he got that gobbet from but I can say it’s bullsh*t.

You're right! A year later, one more switched, so later, that would make two.

Ah, he’s coming round to the truth one at a time. That’s going to take him a while …

I’ll come back when he’s done.

Dubious wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 2:49 am Another Fox News hooligan and mercenary making a mucho amount of $$$/year. The real danger to Moronica (previously known as America) and now the lunatic Capital of the Western World, is the over-abundance of idiots, a majority of whom are Jesus freaks...but at least the price of eggs have gone down.

It would be interesting to know instead what someone like Thomas Paine or any of the Founding Fathers would say about the degradation of the US under the current administration and its main protagonists.

What would the MAGAheads be without Fox News? Without the steady drip of rage and conspiracies filling their veins? Without the bloodlust for destroying perceived enemies? Without a childish leader they can relate to telling them what to think and what to do? Without their delusional and self-righteous march off of a cliff for their god or their foolish pride?

It's not just an embarrassment for America and Christians and Conservatives, it's an embarrassment to humankind. For f*** sake, MAGAheads, get a grip! You chose a monster of the swamp simply because he SAID he would drain the swamp. Many recognized that he was clearly full of shit, and the swamp has now expanded to consume America.

I think the Founding Fathers would be horrified. They couldn't have guessed how their respectable and dignified system of balance and safeguards would be completely ignored and dismantled by a horde of ignorant cultist zombies with the mentality of rabid witch-burners.

Dubious wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 2:49 am

Bass, or Pratt?

Rhetoric is one level of political persuasion.

This is next level.
Hollywood emotion.
This link is either preaching to the choir or generating curiosity for the backstory.
Third option: meh.

“She’s caught the Pratt.”
https://twitter.com/i/status/2060370719071211591

(Pratt wants to be the non-partisan mayor of The City of Angels.)

Dubious wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 2:49 am

Walker wrote:(the book is) back(ed) up with extensive footnoting of the Democrats' words and actions as proof.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 6:57 am

Shirley, you can aim higher than that.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 3:01 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2026 6:57 am

Shirley, you can aim higher than that.

Leslie Neilsen was here

-Imp