Trump Derangement Syndrome

[Immanuel Can]

Posters and claims have nothing to do with it for me.

Well, what gives you your "inspiration" in a politician?

It’s a feeling, an indescribable feeling.

You vote based on nothing but "indescribable feelings"?

No wonder we're getting the "quality" of politicians we have right now, then. There are no standards.

[tillingborn]

Did you actually have any standards or criteria at all? Even one?

I will remind you...

So...no answer. No criteria, no standards..."Orange Man bad." That's all.

Classic TDS.

Again you are confabulating; nowhere have I said "Orange Man bad." Confabulation, fantasy, wishful thinking appear to be typical of how you form beliefs; as you admit:

I can think whatever I want.

That is very post-modern of you, but I suspect you are the only person who thinks I have criticised Donald Trump in this thread. You, or anyone who agrees with you is free to think whatever they want, but you think something that is demonstrably untrue. That is a step up from thinking that Clinton and Biden are serial rapists, which none of us are in a position to disprove, but our exchanges over the last few days are there for anyone to read. There is no criticism from me of Donald Trump; you have made it up.

[Immanuel Can]

I will remind you...

So...no answer. No criteria, no standards..."Orange Man bad." That's all.

Classic TDS.

Again you are confabulating...

No, just drawing the obvious conclusions.

I can think whatever I want.

That is very post-modern of you,

The "shiny object" approach! Lovely. Distractor, distractor...

I knew they had haddock, plaice and kippers over there...I was unaware they had such big red herrings.

You took my remark out of context completely, and now think you're going to get me defending myself against "postmodernism." Hilarious!

Nope. Unfortunately for you, you forgot to delete the "back" arrow that connects to the comment in its original context, so nobody's going to believe you, if they check.

Nice try. Really cute.

[commonsense]

Well, what gives you your "inspiration" in a politician?

It’s a feeling, an indescribable feeling.

You vote based on nothing but "indescribable feelings"?

No wonder we're getting the "quality" of politicians we have right now, then. There are no standards.

Are you denying that feelings can be used to make decisions?

Besides, I don’t pick candidates.

[Immanuel Can]

Are you denying that feelings can be used to make decisions?

They are no reliable source of information. To be useful, feelings need judging.

If you think they don't, then just remember the first person you had a crush on...how strong your feelings were, then.

How do you feel now?

Well, which feeling is the right one? Which one is the truth of the matter?

P.S. -- In a way, we do "pick out candidates." For we agree to accept what they offer us, and vote for it. We don't reject what they offer, and demand they give us another. We just bow, and play the game.

And because we do, they know they can offer us low-grade, manipulable, incompetent options, and we will not squawk.

So we get what we are accepting.

[mickthinks]

you have made it up.

... for the purpose of demeaning his opponent, and hence appearing to win without actually defeating any arguments. As I said:

Yep, that's Manny—fucking smart and thoroughly dishonest!

[tillingborn]

Again you are confabulating...

No, just drawing the obvious conclusions.

Given that you only recently discovered that being guilty does not follow from being accused, a valuable lesson I expect no thanks for, you are poorly qualified to judge what conclusions are obvious. I will state it as many times as you delude yourself otherwise:

nowhere have I said "Orange Man bad."

You are a fool to keep stating something you cannot demonstrate.

[Immanuel Can]

Again you are confabulating...

No, just drawing the obvious conclusions.

Given that you only recently discovered that being guilty does not follow from being accused,

Ah, playing daft, I see.

We were discussing the difference between "guilt" as a court term, and judging character, as indispensible in voting. You can't possibly not know the difference, or go back and check to find out, so let's not insult each other's intelligence by pretending you don't.

But what can we expect? The Dems have sold you a senile old man and a woman so odious her own party wouldn't give a single vote for her in the primary, by waving the "Orange Man bad" flag in front of you.

And you've bought in. That much, is quite clear.

TDS.

[tillingborn]

We were discussing the difference between "guilt" as a court term, and judging character, as indispensible in voting.

No we weren't. We were discussing your inability to distinguish between accusation and guilt. This might remind you:

You cannot perceive a difference between accusation and guilt. Have another look:

Both Trump and Biden have been accused of sexual assault.

Really? I had not heard that Trump had actually done it.

I'm sure it is clear to everyone but you that guilt does not logically follow from accusation. That you think it does is an example of your abysmal logic. Here's the same mistake compounded:

You say:

All I have heard, up to this point, about Trump in that regard is that he made frat-boy talk.

If that is still true,

It's not. But it's also not terribly relevant anymore. By any account, Trump's indiscretions (which you have elected to dismiss as unproven anyway) are manifestly not worse than the proved allegations against Clinton, or Biden.

Once you became aware of the accusations against Trump, with no apparent critical filter, they became "indiscretions" in your mind.

Trump, as well as Biden and Clinton have been accused of many things. Only a fool thinks they are all guilty of everything they have been accused of. You apparently are that fool.

You can't change that history, and as I said, now that you finally do understand that an accusation against a politician doesn't make them guilty, the matter is over as far as I am concerned. But as long as you keep scratching that scab, it will bleed. You were wrong. Get over it.

[Immanuel Can]

We were discussing the difference between "guilt" as a court term, and judging character, as indispensible in voting.

No we weren't.

Yes, we were: and I could bother to go back and hunt the part where we were, and quote that back to you, too.

But I can't be bothered, because I already know you're not going to change your mind. That much is obvious.

[tillingborn]

We were discussing the difference between "guilt" as a court term, and judging character, as indispensible in voting.

No we weren't.

Yes, we were

No we weren't. Here it is again:

I will remind you of my initial contribution to this thread, which has been my position throughout:

When you pillory one man for making frat-boy talk, and say nothing about his competitor who's an actual rapist? I think practically everbody would say that's an imbalance of values, at the very least.

Both Trump and Biden have been accused of sexual assault. Neither have been convicted. On what grounds do you find one guilty and the other innocent?

and I could bother to go back and hunt the part where we were, and quote that back to you, too. But I can't be bothered, because I already know you're not going to change your mind. That much is obvious.

Just as nowhere in this thread have I said anything about my political opinion of Clinton, Trump or Biden, there is nowhere I was talking about ""guilt" as a court term". You made that up; so you could hunt all you like and still not find it. You have managed to fool yourself, but I don't think many others will be taken in. You are wrong again. Get over it.

[commonsense]

Are you denying that feelings can be used to make decisions?

They are no reliable source of information. To be useful, feelings need judging.

If you think they don't, then just remember the first person you had a crush on...how strong your feelings were, then.

How do you feel now?

Well, which feeling is the right one? Which one is the truth of the matter?

You cannot feel false feelings. All feelings are true.

P.S. -- In a way, we do "pick out candidates." For we agree to accept what they offer us, and vote for it. We don't reject what they offer, and demand they give us another. We just bow, and play the game.

And because we do, they know they can offer us low-grade, manipulable, incompetent options, and we will not squawk.

So we get what we are accepting.

We get what the political operatives think will win.

[Immanuel Can]

...nowhere in this thread have I said anything about my political opinion of Clinton, Trump or Biden...

Reallly? Really?

Well, I'll let everybody judge for themselves.

But rather than rise to the bait, I think I'll just redirect to the main point.

By no account anybody can possibly give, is the conduct of one D. Trump worse than the confessed crimes of Clinton, even if we wipe out all the alleged ones. By no account anybody can possibly expect to be believes, is the incompetence of D. Trump equivalent to the incompetence and outright senility of one J. Biden, manifest every day in the press, despite every attempt by that same press to conceal it.

And yet, nobody ever talked about, or even suggested there was such a thing as "Clinton Derangement Syndrome," or "Biden Derangement Syndrome." Yet with regard to D.Trump, the Left is gnashing its teeth in rage, and spitting venom.

One has to ask why. But perhaps it's not possible to ask a sufferer, just as one cannot ask the follower of a cult why he or she is in the cult. It's just beyond the rational, for them; and few have the objectivity or the self-awareness to make the necessary analyses to answer.

Such is the present situation.

Does anybody...anybody...know why this is happening?

[Immanuel Can]

They are no reliable source of information. To be useful, feelings need judging.

If you think they don't, then just remember the first person you had a crush on...how strong your feelings were, then.

How do you feel now?

Well, which feeling is the right one? Which one is the truth of the matter?

You cannot feel false feelings. All feelings are true.

So it's "true" that your first love was your ideal partner, but "true" also that every subsequent one was?

You see, c., that's impossible. No matter how strong the feelings may be, they're just "feelings."

In fact, just because one "feels" something -- even as intensely as one feels a "first love," -- that does not make that feeling "right" or even "realistic." It may be, it may not be. Without judgment, we cannot know.

Feelings often go wrong...sometimes, badly so. The feeling you had, as a child, that there was a psycho-killer or crocodile under your bed, may have so terrified you that you were afraid to put your feet on the floor. That didn't make it "true." It just made it a real "feeling."

P.S. -- In a way, we do "pick out candidates." For we agree to accept what they offer us, and vote for it. We don't reject what they offer, and demand they give us another. We just bow, and play the game.

And because we do, they know they can offer us low-grade, manipulable, incompetent options, and we will not squawk.

So we get what we are accepting.

We get what the political operatives think will win.

And we make them win. So it's on us.

[commonsense]

Feelings often go wrong...sometimes, badly so. The feeling you had, as a child, that there was a psycho-killer or crocodile under your bed, may have so terrified you that you were afraid to put your feet on the floor. That didn't make it "true." It just made it a real "feeling."

Maybe not true but powerful enough to shape beliefs and actions.

A feeling that a crocodile lies under the bed can lead to a belief that that is so. And that belief can lead to avoiding putting the feet on the floor until a parent looks under the bed and says it’s safe now.

So feelings can shape voting behavior.