Philosophy Now Forum

Logik wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:30 pm

Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:03 pm "What's the difference between an orange?"

Well that's precisely why the law of identity is nonsense. It asks "what's the sameness between an orange?"

Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:56 pm All there is is an idea, the idea of bananas or the idea of apples. The idea of bananas is best described as an association of more basic ideas, like the mental visualisation of one or several bananas, perhaps the idea that it's a fruit, probably some idea as to the typical size of a banana etc.
You could think of that as the conjunction of several predicates. So?

class Color(object):
    def __init__(self, name):
        self.name = name

class Banana(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self.color = Color('Yellow')


A = Banana()
print(A.color.name)

Fridge = []
for i in range(10):
   Fridge.append(Banana())

Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:56 pm Why an empty set?
I definitely believe there are things in the world that are bananas as I think of them. Not only it's not an empty set but it's a set that contain all the bananas that exist, that have existed and that will exist. It's a lot of bananas. Nothing like an empty set.
So why an empty set according to you?

Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:56 pm You're not making sense.
Every one of your lines here is somehow wrong.

Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:56 pm Most people will believe there are bananas. As a matter of fact, I eat one every day!
What does it mean to talk about bananas in the abstract?
EB

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:45 pm An actual banana is concrete but the word banana is abstract so that is the difference
All physical objects that have a label / descriptor attached to them share this duality

Speakpigeon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:12 pm No, it doesn't. Rather you just don't understand what the Law of Identity means.

Logic wrote:
How do you express abstracts in logic ?

What is your meta language to speak ABOUT abstracts ?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:51 pm Logic is the foundation of mathematics and mathematics is the most rigorous language there is

One can speak about abstracts using non mathematical or mathematical language [ or both but one will be superior ]
It does not matter in principle which one is used since every language is both abstract as well as describing abstracts
It only matters with regard to the degree of rigour employed and here mathematics is way more rigorous than non mathematics

Logic wrote:
Could you please concretely express the abstract concept of a banana in logic

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:11 pm You can not concretely express an abstract concept in logic or in any language
However I can express the abstract concept in logic which is this : B = BANANA

##### Abstract concept for a fruit
class Fruit():
  pass
  
#### Abstract concept of banana which a type of fruit
class Banana(Fruit):
   def __init__(self):
     self.taste = None
     self.color = None
     self.smell = None
     self.ripeness = None
     self.cultivar = None

# Instances of actual bananas.
A = Banana()
B = Banana()
C = Banana()

Logic wrote:
I conceptualize a banana as a fruit that has color taste smell ripeness

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:30 pm

Logic wrote:
I conceptualize a banana as a fruit that has color taste smell ripeness

S = SMELL [ BETWEEN 0 / I ]
T = TASTE [ BETWEEN 0 / I ]
C = COLOUR [ BETWEEN 0 / I ]
R = RIPENESS [ BETWEEN 0 / I ]

Logic wrote:
As soon as I add more concepts you are going to have to explain the relationships between them

A wet dog has a smell and color also . Maybe even a taste ! But it has no ripeness ! What now ?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:49 pm These questions can be more easily answered using non formal non mathematical language
Adjectives are excellent descriptors for emphasising the differences between experiences
Computer programmes / mathematical algorithms are too formal for this so are unsuitable

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:49 pm A computer cannot really understand the difference between the smell of a dog and the smell of a banana