Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:15 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 9:01 pm Christ the Messiah was not created "out of human fantasy."

You didn't say "Christ the Messiah." You said, "the Christ of faith," which is a liberal synonym for "whatever I happen to make up."

The essence of Xianity is that God is incarnate in JC . Hence JC is the Messiah for all Xians. The Messiah is the Christ of Faith.

The Messiah , for Judaism, has not yet arrived.

You yourself believe what the several editors of The Bible have written for you and other to believe. You believe the literal words as if these human editors were angels from God. Did not God give you a flexible brainmind in order for you to use it to the best of your ability. If that had been the case then you would understand The Bible emerged from man's past like any other works of literature.

I am not blaming you I'm merely saying that for reasons of your personal circumstances you have been indoctrinated in Biblical literalism somewhere along your life's way. Biblical literalism was the distinguishing feature of medieval Christendom among the social levels that knew little of truth except via Biblical literalism. Your school whenever and whatever that was has not only missed out on science it has missed out on the spirit of Renaissance.

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:00 pm The Messiah , for Judaism, has not yet arrived.

He has arrived. They just didn't like Him.

But He'll be back. And you'll see.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 6:47 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:00 pm The Messiah , for Judaism, has not yet arrived.

He has arrived. They just didn't like Him.

But He'll be back. And you'll see.

He never left.

Fairy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:33 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 6:47 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:00 pm The Messiah , for Judaism, has not yet arrived.

He has arrived. They just didn't like Him.

But He'll be back. And you'll see.

He never left.

Welcome back Fairy.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 6:47 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:00 pm The Messiah , for Judaism, has not yet arrived.

He has arrived. They just didn't like Him.

But He'll be back. And you'll see.

Are they not the same perhaps from different ontological points of view.
Anyway, especially in view of the situation in the Near East, I hope you are right.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 2:25 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 6:47 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 12:00 pm The Messiah , for Judaism, has not yet arrived.

He has arrived. They just didn't like Him.

But He'll be back. And you'll see.

Are they not the same perhaps from different ontological points of view.

Not at all. What's called "The Christ of Faith" is so-called by liberal religionists who secretly have complete contempt for the historical Christ, and want to make up an imaginary "Christ" out of their own prejudices. They find that disciplining their thinking to following the real Christ is too much of a burden to these prejudices of theirs, and would with to religiously "baptize" those prejudices by reconstructing a "Christ" in their own image. This gives them the dual advantage of being able to continue those prejudices, but now with the added religious halo of divine approval, as they see it.

But the Christ of history does not approve their selfishness, nor is He the subject of their reconstructions. One cannot make up a "Christ" in one's own image...and if one does, it's really nothing but another "anti-Christ."

Anyway, especially in view of the situation in the Near East, I hope you are right.

Yes; according to prophecy, there will be no lasting or secure peace there until the Prince of Peace returns. So everyone should wish for that.

You are very much mistaken! I have a lot of respect for the Jesus of history,( despite that Mark is the earliest Gospel at 40CE.) The liberal Christians I know also respect Jesus of history , his life and work.
You would be more help to Christianity and Christians if your attitude were inclusive.

Belinda

! good stuff.

Belinda

Having, looked through my personal library of books.
Pelikan, Jaroslav. “JESUS THROUGH THE CENTURIES, His Place in the History of
Culture,” Yale University Press, 1985, Print. ISBN 0-300-03496 (Paper.)
Nihil amori Christi praeponere.

Thank you Puto. I will probably buy it.

Religion is a story about being people being screwed over.

Fairy » Sat Nov 30, 2024 12:42 pm

Religion is a story about being people being screwed over. LOL. That was hilarious, on a simple interpretation of the stories. Look deeper and you will learn something from every religion; not just in comparative religions class, but in theology classes and history of religion classes (but the latter do not get into the truth of ....)

Fairy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 1:42 pm Religion is a story about being people being screwed over.

It's true that religion has been exploited in that way .Despite political exploitation at all levels religion has somehow been the medium for a really important message about how to live a good life. The message is often called "The Golden Rule" and "international brotherhood"and so forth.

When you look within yourself you can see that you can tell the difference between right and wrong. It was religious moral code that your parents , teachers, or whatever significant others in your life and ancestry learned right and wrong from. This is historical fact. You and I may be atheists however civilisation as we know it happened to be built upon religious literacy and religious technology, whether we like it or not.
Many people rebel against establishment of religious authorities and rightly so. It is stupid to stop short at simple rebellion without knowing exactly what we are rebelling against.

puto wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:50 am Fairy » Sat Nov 30, 2024 12:42 pm

Religion is a story about being people being screwed over. LOL. That was hilarious, on a simple interpretation of the stories. Look deeper and you will learn something from every religion; not just in comparative religions class, but in theology classes and history of religion classes (but the latter do not get into the truth of ....)

Can you recommend how seekers such as Fairy can acquire this depth of learning? Obviously priests and other ministers of religion are biased and most are not very learned. I

I'd recommend a study of Socrates, or Confucius. Jesus (unfortunately)is usually explained either ineffectually by an assortment of ministers of religion, via more or less polemical writings of men who lived years after he died. The Parables of Jesus are good for his contemporaries but concern mostly fishermen , farmers, or pastoralists. JC is a powerful and moveable icon but for modern people the characters who inhabit his parables tend to sound archaic . The Sermon on the Mount----is it intelligible to most people?

puto wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:50 am Fairy » Sat Nov 30, 2024 12:42 pm

Religion is a story about being people being screwed over. LOL. That was hilarious, on a simple interpretation of the stories. Look deeper and you will learn something from every religion; not just in comparative religions class, but in theology classes and history of religion classes (but the latter do not get into the truth of ....)

“History happens while you're making other plans”