Philosophy Now Forum

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:41 amI was discussing my relationship with my wife. I was talking about her calling me on my shit and that I appreciated that.

Yes, appreciation is the key ... the key unlocks the tension that often arises where there are two...opposites, albeit complimentary opposites.

And so yes, it's important to always address each and the others shit.

By shit, is probably meant as 'negative emotional drama'.

Why do couples need to address the sensation, the feeling of 'negative drama'? Is because it's an energy that takes the feeler of this sensation into a place they would rather not be. When the energy of negativity arises within awareness, this energy creates a contraction in the body, this is felt as fear, which is uncomfortable for the body. It's not the bodies natural state, the negative energy creates a tension that instantly wants to release back to a state of equilibrium, which is the bodies natural state.

That's why two people in a couple must always be aware of the others energy levels, and most importantly, always inform the other if their energy level is affecting them in a negative way. If one does not inform the other one that their negative energy is affecting them, the negative atmosphere will continue on and grow bigger. So, to stop the energy from growing, you must both stop feeding it. Only when you BOTH are aware of the negative energy, is when the energy is allowed to disperse, and that will happen effortlessly, because it's been made aware of in each and the other person.

Couples that are willing to call each other out.. on each and their own negative energy patterns. The patterns that do arise will have no place to exist, they will not grow bigger, they will be addressed and dealt with...but this dealing with negative emotion must be addressed in the immediacy of the moment the energy arises, else it will just simply get worse. It will turn into a MONSTER... even lingering on in the body, growing ever larger and larger, just simply festering away forever, until it is killed, until it is removed by NOT giving it any more attention.

Good awareness and communication between couples is the key to a successful pair bonding. Where each can know the other as their own self.

Happy Days.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:10 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:21 am Why 'this one' continues to presume, and believe, true, what is absolutely not, is already fully known, and understood.

Nothing of substance here.

Except, of course, that it is now, very clear, that you continue to presume, and believe, some thing is true, which is absolutely not true, at all.

You've stated that, yes. But you haven't demonstrated that.

And, again, for the very reason that I have told you. But, which you, still, do not yet know, right?

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:10 am So, when you use the vague 'that it is now very clear' without mentioning to whom it is clear, your post is misleading at best.

LOL whom it is clear to us already very obvious. But, that you have missed this, as well, is not surprising at all.

Also,.there would be absolutely nothing 'misleading' here if you were not, at first, presuming or believing some thing.

By the way...have you ever noticed how the MONSTER part of us always want to win, it always want to grow and be large. It wants to dominate the show, and can hardly stop itself from growing ever larger, until it is given no more attention.

Sometimes, the monster is so strong in us that it seems like it is taking over our whole body. And when that happens, there seems to a sense of lack of control over the monster. And so it takes a lot of self control (will power) to tame the monster, to bring oneself back to natural equilibrium, where the monster has no place to exist anymore. Peace is our natural real true state, the monster is the illusion, just a mental creation of your own making.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:13 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:04 am If this is what you believe is true and are convinced of, then okay.

It was ironic.

If this is what you, now, believe, and are convinced of, then okay.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:15 am I would prefer you did not miss, and did understand, my views and ideas, but 'we' cannot always get what 'we' prefer, correct?

Correct.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:56 am My experience of Age is that his patterns of communication lead to me producing a lot and having everything questioned, and even my requests for clarification, require clarification on my part. During this process Age often respond to me and others in the 3rd person. For example, comments beginning with 'This one....'. It seems his intention is not to be rude, but given he has said that actually he may not even be interesting in communcating with us,

Once again, I have never said this. But this does not stop 'this one' from presuming or believing otherwise.

OK, but you have said many times that we are not necessarily your intended audience. I'm sorry if how I worded it seems completely off the mark.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:56 amgiven that we may not even be his target audience, the process seems a little parasitic.

Yet 'you' are , still, here.

Sure, and taking steps to not experience parasitism. This is not binary.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:56 am So, I think a solution for me would be if Age responded directly to the topic and we both have some context for the other person's thoughts, positions, emotions, knowledge of the topic, for that discussion.

I have already done this.

Great,you responded to

''Love is anxiety. Attachment is suffering. Life is suffering. Relationships are two insecure individuals that use and tolerate each other for their own selfish needs and wants all for the fear of being alone. They are all toxic on some level and narcissistically controlled by one. This is not love and this is no way to live but most and many do out of fear. All relationships are full of lies, deceit and manipulative manipulation due to hate which comes from fear. Everything we do is out of fear. If everyone truly knew what everyone was thinking then no one would have any friends and relationships would not be a thing. Fantasies are cheating. Everyone has fantasies. Trust no one ever.''

Could you show me where you did this. I haven't found it yet.

So, 'we' now await to see if "iwannaplato" can do the same.

But I did, in a post entirely devoted to that, a post you have quoted from.

I have not seen you respond to that topic with you thoughs, feelings knowledge and, say, experience. Obviously, if you are not interested in doing so, you won't.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:33 am

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:13 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:04 am If this is what you believe is true and are convinced of, then okay.

It was ironic.

If this is what you, now, believe, and are convinced of, then okay.

Sure, I know my intentions in that post.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:31 am Why 'this one' continues to presume, and believe, true, what is absolutely not, is already fully known, and understood.

Nothing of substance here.

Except, of course, that it is now, very clear, that you continue to presume, and believe, some thing is true, which is absolutely not true, at all.

You've stated that, yes. But you haven't demonstrated that.

And, again, for the very reason that I have told you. But, which you, still, do not yet know, right?

I was pointing out that you haven't demonstrated it. The reasons for that, don't interest me at the moment.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:10 am So, when you use the vague 'that it is now very clear' without mentioning to whom it is clear, your post is misleading at best.

LOL whom it is clear to us already very obvious. But, that you have missed this, as well, is not surprising at all.

In English, when you use contructions like that, it implies that texts are clear, period. That the clarity is a quality of the text itself, regardless of reader. That is not the case. It is a kind of misleading idea of language that is built into the language, though some constructions emphasize that model more than others. So, I pointed out what I consider a confusion.

Fairy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:32 am By the way...have you ever noticed how the MONSTER part of us always want to win, it always want to grow and be large. It wants to dominate the show, and can hardly stop itself from growing ever larger, until it is given no more attention.

Sometimes, the monster is so strong in us that it seems like it is taking over our whole body. And when that happens, there seems to a sense of lack of control over the monster. And so it takes a lot of self control (will power) to tame the monster, to bring oneself back to natural equilibrium, where the monster has no place to exist anymore. Peace is our natural real true state, the monster is the illusion, just a mental creation of your own making.

By the way, does anyone fear their monster?

Fairy doesn't. Why, because she knows its not real....she knows that the light she is, her real self, will simply burn the monster (shadow) her other illusory self, away whenever it try's to face off with her light. Because the light always wins the battle of light verses the dark...the dark is always contingent upon the light for it's existence, albeit illusory, since without the light, there is no creation of other, it's own shadow.

There is no shadow being without the light, but light doesn't need a shadow to be - light is self illuminating.

What does this mean? ..it means, where there is two, there will always be contrast, there will be both shadow and light, and both cannot be without the other for there to be two...even though they are both one and the other, they are ONE appearing as the other.
Light can appear as dark...but dark can never appear as light, because light will always extinguish it in it's presence.

Never the twain shall meet ...so to speak.

It means the contrast between shadow and light is how the mind differentiates the difference between being and not being.
Or, between knowing and not knowing.

Reality, is both knowing and not knowing simultaneously within the mind, that can change, from one to the other, which is always it's same one self...knowing difference where there is none.

Feeling very lucid today. Experiencing a very happy lucid living day.

Fairy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:20 am Yes, appreciation is the key ... the key unlocks the tension that often arises where there are two...opposites, albeit complimentary opposites.

And so yes, it's important to always address each and the others shit.

By shit, is probably meant as 'negative emotional drama'.

It can be all sorts of things. It can be overeactions, being angry at one thing but somehow it comes out in response to her and it has nothing to do with her, it can be me having a pattern of forgetting something and so on. Of course in the moment, we don't know if it is actually 'shit' yet. Maybe she is misunderstanding, bringing in stuff that has nothing to do with me. stressed about other things, whatever. This all gets worked out over time. It can be both of us. We both believe, also, that the old stuff needs to be expressed and we understand that it may come up in relation to the other person and later can be expressed in relation to the real source. Might be a past one or something ongoing now that isn't the other one of us.

I am expressing this in a kind of ideal form. Of course, we can have mixed reactions, not want to hear in a given moment and so on.

Why do couples need to address the sensation, the feeling of 'negative drama'? Is because it's an energy that takes the feeler of this sensation into a place they would rather not be. When the energy of negativity arises within awareness, this energy creates a contraction in the body, this is felt as fear, which is uncomfortable for the body. It's not the bodies natural state, the negative energy creates a tension that instantly wants to release back to a state of equilibrium, which is the bodies natural state.

and my sense is that expression, in sound, is often best. This can happen with the other or alone, with support or something more like a loving witness. But this is either appealing in some way or it isn't. I don't walk around thinking everyone should do what I do and want what I want.

Suppression and denial have been tried for so long and they just do notseem to be working. Expressing in the field of judgment has also been tried for so long and also has not worked. So a common culture and support has been what I have longed for and found. Not just my wife, but certainly she is the daily center.

That's why two people in a couple must always be aware of the others energy levels, and most importantly, always inform the other if their energy level is affecting them in a negative way. If one does not inform the other one that their negative energy is affecting them, the negative atmosphere will continue on and grow bigger.

That's good if one can. When we met my wife was much better at that then me, though I think I've fiinally caught up.

So, to stop the energy from growing, you must both stop feeding it. Only when you BOTH are aware of the negative energy, is when the energy is allowed to disperse, and that will happen effortlessly, because it's been made aware of in each and the other person.

I tend not to use 'negative enegy' or 'negative emotions' (you didnt' use the second term). I feel like all these things are fine in their right place and also it is best to experss then (in a place and with those who can accept that process).

I have found there is no easy road map for this process, even though many people think they know that map and whole traditions have sprouted up around one trick ponies and paths with heavy denials and partial pictures. For example, the distance between men and women, that inner distance, none of those traditions had the tools and understanding to heal that distance, despite the certainty of many a guru, messiah, pychologist, spiritual leader, etc.

Happy Days.

You too.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:17 am It can be all sorts of things. It can be overeactions, being angry at one thing but somehow it comes out in response to her and it has nothing to do with her, it can be me having a pattern of forgetting something and so on. Of course in the moment, we don't know if it is actually 'shit' yet. Maybe she is misunderstanding, bringing in stuff that has nothing to do with me. stressed about other things, whatever. This all gets worked out over time. It can be both of us. We both believe, also, that the old stuff needs to be expressed and we understand that it may come up in relation to the other person and later can be expressed in relation to the real source. Might be a past one or something ongoing now that isn't the other one of us.

I am expressing this in a kind of ideal form. Of course, we can have mixed reactions, not want to hear in a given moment and so on.

Beautiful, well expressed. I totally relate to that.
Ideals are always your own unique expression, and not necessarily someone else's...recognition of differences is the key to aligning with opposing truths as being part and parcel of any dual/relational experience.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:17 amand my sense is that expression, in sound, of often best. This can happen with the other or alone, with support or something more like a loving witness.

Suppression and denial have been tried for so long and they just dont seem to be working. Expressing in the field of judgment has also been tried for so long and also has not worked. So a common culture and support has been what I have longed for and found. Not just my wife, but certainly she is the daily center.

Beautiful.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:17 amTat's good if one can. When we met my wife was much better at that then me, though I think I've fiinally caught up.

Beautiful, (( smile)) yes, I think that's usually how it goes for most couples, one is always playing catch up to the other, until they are both in the same place at the same time... Yes, it's great when both are in complete alignment. That's usually when their energy is felt as good feelings.. when they are both singing from the same hymn sheet, metaphorically speaking.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:17 amI tend not to use 'negative enegy' or 'negative emotions' (you didnt' use the second term). I feel like all these things are fine in their right place and also it is best to experss then (in a place and with those who can accept that process).

Perfect understanding though, in your own unique way. Absolutely well said, plato!

Acceptance is the key to unlocking the door to unconditional love. When everything is just allowed to happen without judgement or fear.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:17 amI have found there is no easy road map for this process, even though many people think they know that map and whole traditions have sprouted up around one trick ponies and paths with heavy denials and partial pictures. For example, the distance between men and women, that inner distance, none of those traditions had the tools and understanding to heal that distance, despite the certainty of many a guru, messiah, pychologist, spiritual leader, etc.

I absolutely agree with that statement I am so glad you mentioned that. That's an important point to remember, that spiritual gurus can often lead one down the wrong path. No one else's path is your path.

Because, the only true path, is the one you walk yourself, all alone. And when you have reached your final destination, is when you can recognise what every single other guru is saying. We can only see ourselves through the reflection of others, who reflect back to us, what we already are.

In other words, no one said it was going to be easy, just that it would be worth it.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:55 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:15 am I would prefer you did not miss, and did understand, my views and ideas, but 'we' cannot always get what 'we' prefer, correct?

Correct.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:56 am My experience of Age is that his patterns of communication lead to me producing a lot and having everything questioned, and even my requests for clarification, require clarification on my part. During this process Age often respond to me and others in the 3rd person. For example, comments beginning with 'This one....'. It seems his intention is not to be rude, but given he has said that actually he may not even be interesting in communcating with us,

Once again, I have never said this. But this does not stop 'this one' from presuming or believing otherwise.

OK, but you have said many times that we are not necessarily your intended audience. I'm sorry if how I worded it seems completely off the mark.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:56 amgiven that we may not even be his target audience, the process seems a little parasitic.

Yet 'you' are , still, here.

Sure, and taking steps to not experience parasitism. This is not binary.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:56 am So, I think a solution for me would be if Age responded directly to the topic and we both have some context for the other person's thoughts, positions, emotions, knowledge of the topic, for that discussion.

I have already done this.

Great,you responded to

''Love is anxiety. Attachment is suffering. Life is suffering. Relationships are two insecure individuals that use and tolerate each other for their own selfish needs and wants all for the fear of being alone. They are all toxic on some level and narcissistically controlled by one. This is not love and this is no way to live but most and many do out of fear. All relationships are full of lies, deceit and manipulative manipulation due to hate which comes from fear. Everything we do is out of fear. If everyone truly knew what everyone was thinking then no one would have any friends and relationships would not be a thing. Fantasies are cheating. Everyone has fantasies. Trust no one ever.''

Could you show me where you did this. I haven't found it yet.

I have done this, continually, throughout this forum, and could say in just about every post of mine.

Why do you think you have not found this yet.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:55 am

So, 'we' now await to see if "iwannaplato" can do the same.

But I did, in a post entirely devoted to that, a post you have quoted from.

I have not seen you respond to that topic with you thoughs, feelings knowledge and, say, experience. Obviously, if you are not interested in doing so, you won't.

But I have done it. you have, once more, just missed it, again.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:02 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:31 am Why 'this one' continues to presume, and believe, true, what is absolutely not, is already fully known, and understood.

Nothing of substance here.

Except, of course, that it is now, very clear, that you continue to presume, and believe, some thing is true, which is absolutely not true, at all.

You've stated that, yes. But you haven't demonstrated that.

And, again, for the very reason that I have told you. But, which you, still, do not yet know, right?

I was pointing out that you haven't demonstrated it. The reasons for that, don't interest me at the moment.

So, for how long will you keep pointing out to the readers here that I have not done some thing, which I do not have to, and which I have explained the reasons for?

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:02 am

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:10 am So, when you use the vague 'that it is now very clear' without mentioning to whom it is clear, your post is misleading at best.

LOL whom it is clear to us already very obvious. But, that you have missed this, as well, is not surprising at all.

In English, when you use contructions like that, it implies that texts are clear, period.

But that is not right, obviously.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:02 am That the clarity is a quality of the text itself, regardless of reader. That is not the case. It is a kind of misleading idea of language that is built into the language, though some constructions emphasize that model more than others. So, I pointed out what I consider a confusion.

And, the amount of times you use words that what they relate to, exactly, is not clear is insurmountable.

Is this text clear, to you?

Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:59 pm '

'Love is anxiety. Attachment is suffering. Life is suffering. Relationships are two insecure individuals that use and tolerate each other for their own selfish needs and wants all for the fear of being alone. They are all toxic on some level and narcissistically controlled by one. This is not love and this is no way to live but most and many do out of fear. All relationships are full of lies, deceit and manipulative manipulation due to hate which comes from fear. Everything we do is out of fear. If everyone truly knew what everyone was thinking then no one would have any friends and relationships would not be a thing. Fantasies are cheating. Everyone has fantasies. Trust no one ever.''

Could you show me where you did this. I haven't found it yet.

I have done this, continually, throughout this forum, and could say in just about every post of mine.

Ah, so no communicating as I did about how this plays out in your personal life between you and others. I mean, sure, I've noticed that you've posted things on the more universal level, your opinions about such things. But nothing generous of self, where you go into, as I and other have, their their direct lived experiences in relationship.

That's enough information. I have no interest in discussing with you the issues you focused on and asked about regarding my response to that quote.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:07 pm

Near gibberish.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:17 am

Fairy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:20 am Yes, appreciation is the key ... the key unlocks the tension that often arises where there are two...opposites, albeit complimentary opposites.

And so yes, it's important to always address each and the others shit.

By shit, is probably meant as 'negative emotional drama'.

It can be all sorts of things. It can be overeactions, being angry at one thing but somehow it comes out in response to her and it has nothing to do with her, it can be me having a pattern of forgetting something and so on. Of course in the moment, we don't know if it is actually 'shit' yet. Maybe she is misunderstanding, bringing in stuff that has nothing to do with me. stressed about other things, whatever. This all gets worked out over time. It can be both of us. We both believe, also, that the old stuff needs to be expressed and we understand that it may come up in relation to the other person and later can be expressed in relation to the real source. Might be a past one or something ongoing now that isn't the other one of us.

Sounds like 'you' have a lot of so-called 'shit, in your life', "iwannaplato".

Once again, once one learns how to find, and know, the actual Truths, in Life, including about the Real and True Self', and even Life, Itself, then this was when all of this 'shit', that these people spoke of and talked about, back when this was being written, all started disappearing, and so it was when the 'Truly peaceful and harmonious world', and life, also began.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 11:17 am I am expressing this in a kind of ideal form. Of course, we can have mixed reactions, not want to hear in a given moment and so on.

Why do couples need to address the sensation, the feeling of 'negative drama'? Is because it's an energy that takes the feeler of this sensation into a place they would rather not be. When the energy of negativity arises within awareness, this energy creates a contraction in the body, this is felt as fear, which is uncomfortable for the body. It's not the bodies natural state, the negative energy creates a tension that instantly wants to release back to a state of equilibrium, which is the bodies natural state.

and my sense is that expression, in sound, is often best. This can happen with the other or alone, with support or something more like a loving witness. But this is either appealing in some way or it isn't. I don't walk around thinking everyone should do what I do and want what I want.

Suppression and denial have been tried for so long and they just do notseem to be working. Expressing in the field of judgment has also been tried for so long and also has not worked. So a common culture and support has been what I have longed for and found. Not just my wife, but certainly she is the daily center.

That's why two people in a couple must always be aware of the others energy levels, and most importantly, always inform the other if their energy level is affecting them in a negative way. If one does not inform the other one that their negative energy is affecting them, the negative atmosphere will continue on and grow bigger.

That's good if one can. When we met my wife was much better at that then me, though I think I've fiinally caught up.

So, to stop the energy from growing, you must both stop feeding it. Only when you BOTH are aware of the negative energy, is when the energy is allowed to disperse, and that will happen effortlessly, because it's been made aware of in each and the other person.

I tend not to use 'negative enegy' or 'negative emotions' (you didnt' use the second term). I feel like all these things are fine in their right place and also it is best to experss then (in a place and with those who can accept that process).

I have found there is no easy road map for this process, even though many people think they know that map and whole traditions have sprouted up around one trick ponies and paths with heavy denials and partial pictures. For example, the distance between men and women, that inner distance, none of those traditions had the tools and understanding to heal that distance, despite the certainty of many a guru, messiah, pychologist, spiritual leader, etc.

Happy Days.

You too.