Philosophy Now Forum

The abstract dichotomy 'east and west' is no longer relevant and hasn't been since the first and only Marxist revolution failed in the 20s.

Today the only dichotomy that is real consists of the two classes; the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. As all countries have embraced mixed economies and allow for private ownership of business, their cultural differences are minor if not entirely irrelevant when we find that the proletariat of each country suffers the same problems as the proletariat in the next country now that the planet has reached late stage capitalism. There is no east and west. There is only worker, parasite, and the crony politicians that serve the parasites.

No difference between people of the world is less dubious and ambiguous than this class distinction. But the powers that be are fighting tooth and nail to obscure this fact and make working people believe they have little in common. This keeps them divided.

See now I'm ambivalent toward the Ukraine because of crap like this. Whereas formerly - before I knew they were capable of producing such crap - I was decidedly on their side. But then I find out that the Russians are making the same crap... so now I'm like wtf, I don't know who's side I should be on.

Perhaps the western capitalist/consumerist ethos has quite literally ruined the entire world and we need to just blow the whole thing up and start over.

Again, back to what I always come around to here: figuring out what the world looks like from inside Putin's head:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opin ... raine.html

Mikhail Zygar
Mr. Zygar is a Russian journalist and the author of “All the Kremlin’s Men: Inside the Court of Vladimir Putin.”

'I have been talking to high-level businessmen and Kremlin insiders for years. In 2016 I published a book, “All the Kremlin’s Men,” about Mr. Putin’s inner circle. Since then I’ve been gathering reporting for a potential sequel. While the goings on around the president are opaque — Mr. Putin, a former K.G.B. officer, has always been secretive and conspiratorial — my sources, who speak to me on condition of anonymity, have regularly been correct. What I have heard about the president’s behavior over the past two years is alarming. His seclusion and inaccessibility, his deep belief that Russian domination over Ukraine must be restored and his decision to surround himself with ideologues and sycophants have all helped to bring Europe to its most dangerous moment since World War II.'

Or inside the head of this guy...

'Mr. Putin spent the spring and summer of 2020 quarantining at his residence in Valdai, approximately halfway between Moscow and St. Petersburg. According to sources in the administration, he was accompanied there by Yuri Kovalchuk. Mr. Kovalchuk, who is the largest shareholder in Rossiya Bank and controls several state-approved media outlets, has been Mr. Putin’s close friend and trusted adviser since the 1990s. But by 2020, according to my sources, he had established himself as the de facto second man in Russia, the most influential among the president’s entourage.

'Mr. Kovalchuk has a doctorate in physics and was once employed by an institute headed by the Nobel laureate Zhores Alferov. But he isn’t just a man of science. He is also an ideologue, subscribing to a worldview that combines Orthodox Christian mysticism, anti-American conspiracy theories and hedonism. This appears to be Mr. Putin’s worldview, too. Since the summer of 2020, Mr. Putin and Mr. Kovalchuk have been almost inseparable, and the two of them have been making plans together to restore Russia’s greatness.

'According to people with knowledge of Mr. Putin’s conversations with his aides over the past two years, the president has completely lost interest in the present: The economy, social issues, the coronavirus pandemic, these all annoy him. Instead, he and Mr. Kovalchuk obsess over the past.'

Shades of Adolph Hitler and "Germany's greatness"?

Finally...

'And now here we are. Isolated and under sanctions, alone against the world, Russia looks as though it is being remade in its president’s image. Mr. Putin’s already very tight inner circle will only draw in closer. As the casualties mount in Ukraine, the president appears to be digging in his heels; he says that the sanctions on his country are a “declaration of war.”

'Yet at the same time he seems to believe that complete isolation will make a large part of the most unreliable elements leave Russia: During the past two weeks, the protesting intelligentsia — executives, actors, artists, journalists — have hurriedly fled the country; some abandoned their possessions just to get out. I fear that from the point of view of Mr. Putin and Mr. Kovalchuk, this will only make Russia stronger.'

Russia: The new North Korea?

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:48 pm See now I'm ambivalent toward the Ukraine because of crap like this. Whereas formerly - before I knew they were capable of producing such crap - I was decidedly on their side. But then I find out that the Russians are making the same crap... so now I'm like wtf, I don't know who's side I should be on.

Perhaps the western capitalist/consumerist ethos has quite literally ruined the entire world and we need to just blow the whole thing up and start over.

The link didn't work for me, but it could be because of my machine.

Propaganda is more an element of war now, than during The Big One.
Propaganda causes doubt in the doubtful, and fire in Mr. and Mrs. Doubtfire.

What to believe, what to think, what to do?

- Some smart person should write an article that because of this, philosophy is more important than ever before, ever ever before.
- But, philosophy is only important … if it has some answers.
- The questions are rather obvious, and in fact for those on the frequency, all questions concerning truth in this matter can huddle under one big umbrella … or question … or desire.

So philosophers, how about some answers.
It’s answer time.

It's fuckin Ukrainian gangsta rap, bro. A song eloquently entitled 'fuck putin'. Can you believe that shit?

Who would have thought that when the fat cigar smoking 20th century capitalist met the recently emancipated African illiterate, that the deal they would make would become an artistic phenomena that swept over the entire world? I mean even the Chinese are rapping. And you thought the corona virus was a pandemic?

Brave Russian soldiers destroy an extremely dangerous Ukrainian gunship piloted by grandma and grandpa Kovalenko...


https://www.kaotic.com/video/9fe6756d_20220308100140_t

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:11 pm It's fuckin Ukrainian gangsta rap, bro. A song eloquently entitled 'fuck putin'. Can you believe that shit?

Who would have thought that when the fat cigar smoking 20th century capitalist met the recently emancipated African illiterate, that the deal they would make would become an artistic phenomena that swept over the entire world? I mean even the Chinese are rapping. And you thought the corona virus was a pandemic?

its not a surprise Putin wants the Ukraine, he was born and raised in a USSR Russia and many of his fellow Russians feel the same way that the Ukraine belongs to Russia seeing much of the population was born and raised in the USSR. actually, if my memory serves, the Ukraine was Russians territory before WWII, Stalin starved to death approximately 10 million souls forcing them to farm the land.

the Ukraine is a bread basket of eastern Europe and a mineral and oil rich territory. in WWII Hitler made a major military move for it because Germany needed oil. thing is why isn't this country the Ukraine full of impoverished citizens with such financial potential. its corrupt and falls by its own leadership. so yea this was going to happen. and the leadership was to stupid to make a deal with Russia for the sake of its people's well being, because its corrupt. if it can't be under the NATO umbrella then Russia's their future.


all this media outrage and European trade stand is just lip service to look righteous in the site of their audiences.

sight

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/12/opin ... biden.html

Maureen Dowd
NYT

The nitty gritty existential questions...

"Will Zelensky live or die when Russian forces bear down? Will Ukraine exist as a sovereign nation? What does this crisis mean for the identity of America and the West — who will we be when this is over? Will the planet even survive?"

And...

"President Biden and his generals are facing their own existential moment as they try to figure out the incredibly knotty problem of where the line is. Are Javelins OK and MiGs too far? How do we do everything we can to help Ukraine without spurring a sadistic and unhinged Vladimir Putin to start World War III and a nuclear conflagration?"

Clearly, it's not very often that an event will unfold in the news where there is literally so much at stake for all of us.

This isn't like those insisting we are doomed "by the end of the century" if we don't abandon our current energy policies. Or those worried about the next covid mutation.

This might well become a whole different set of dominoes toppling over. Toppling over on to the lot of us.

We're now into Dr. Strangelove territory here.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:03 am
This might well become a whole different set of dominoes toppling over. Toppling over on to the lot of us.

No one intervened during Hitlers genocidal killing spree in world war II ..well at least not until millions of people had been slaughtered.

Seems like history is repeating itself. Except this time around, thousands of long range nuclear weapons are at our disposal.

Dark days ahead.

Capitalism is not only responsible for the war (I mean what capitalism permits men to become and do, like a Putin), but it's also responsible for desensitizing you to the gravity of it. And it does this with the medium through which you get information about the war.

You see 'breaking news', tune in to see some reporter describe a pregnant lady who was blown into thirds, and then a fraction of a second later there's some idiot on the TV trying to sell you some Flex Tape.

What's happening is your brain is not allowed to fully absorb and reflect on the seriousness of the war because a second later you are bombarded once again with superficial advertising... things that cannot be more trivial when contrasted with the severity of the situation in Ukraine.

Putin’s puppet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mgQaFlo_p8

promethean75 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:37 pm Capitalism is not only responsible for the war (I mean what capitalism permits men to become and do, like a Putin), but it's also responsible for desensitizing you to the gravity of it. And it does this with the medium through which you get information about the war.

You see 'breaking news', tune in to see some reporter describe a pregnant lady who was blown into thirds, and then a fraction of a second later there's some idiot on the TV trying to sell you some Flex Tape.

What's happening is your brain is not allowed to fully absorb and reflect on the seriousness of the war because a second later you are bombarded once again with superficial advertising... things that cannot be more trivial when contrasted with the severity of the situation in Ukraine.

So true.

Another way that the masses are being desensitized to the events in Ukraine is that there is so much of the same story that is being repeated, including the times when the same sound bite is repeated, on all the networks (except Fox).

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:13 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:03 am
This might well become a whole different set of dominoes toppling over. Toppling over on to the lot of us.

No one intervened during Hitlers genocidal killing spree in world war II ..well at least not until millions of people had been slaughtered.

Seems like history is repeating itself. Except this time around, thousands of long range nuclear weapons are at our disposal.

Dark days ahead.

Try to imagine if Hitler had been able to create a nuclear arsenal of his own back then. If he and the Nazis had won that particular arms race.

What gets tricky with Ukraine is that Putin has access to literally thousands of nuclear bombs. And we really do not know what is actually unfolding inside his head. It's not like Americans going to war in Iraq or Afghanistan. There most of the fighting and dying [as usual] was done by the working class grunts. On the other hand here you can push Biden to confront the Russians more aggressively...more directly. But that might result in a conflict that escalates catastrophically and puts your life on the line as well. Literally millions and millions could perish in a nuclear exchange.

So, sure, you want to push back against Putin. But as Dowd notes above...

"President Biden and his generals are facing their own existential moment as they try to figure out the incredibly knotty problem of where the line is. Are Javelins OK and MiGs too far? How do we do everything we can to help Ukraine without spurring a sadistic and unhinged Vladimir Putin to start World War III and a nuclear conflagration?"

Wars often revolve around the "military industrial complex". The "war economy". But when it involves nuclear bombs, will there be an economy left?

Even those on Wall Street must be shitting a few bricks these days.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:15 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:13 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:03 am
This might well become a whole different set of dominoes toppling over. Toppling over on to the lot of us.

No one intervened during Hitlers genocidal killing spree in world war II ..well at least not until millions of people had been slaughtered.

Seems like history is repeating itself. Except this time around, thousands of long range nuclear weapons are at our disposal.

Dark days ahead.

Try to imagine if Hitler had been able to create a nuclear arsenal of his own back then. If he and the Nazis had won that particular arms race.

What gets tricky with Ukraine is that Putin has access to literally thousands of nuclear bombs. And we really do not know what is actually unfolding inside his head. It's not like Americans going to war in Iraq or Afghanistan.

It is exactly the same, except that Putin is a lot more restrained than the US's numerous invasions in the last 60 years.
The only difference seems to be the colour of the skins of the invaded which seems to get a bigger response for them being white rather than dark as they were in Iraq twice, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Laos, Cuba, Cambodia, Vietnam, Grenada.. etc.