Philosophy Now Forum

bus2bondi wrote:what's a human being without a symbol?

A human.

bobevenson wrote: Symbols and allegories will never become obsolete, in fact they are the only things that are real (see http://church-of-ouzo.com/pdf/ouzo-prophecy.pdf).

There a thousands of symbols and allegories that are long obsolete throughout ancient literature.

The only things that are real? What did you have for breakfast - a allegory of a cornflake? Or was it the logo on the packet?

bobevenson wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:Modern education is achieving more than it ever has.

That's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. Education (and I'm talking about schools) is one of the biggest scams on Earth. The Chicago teachers union has just put all of the city's teachers on strike, and in effect has told all of Chicago's children to go straight to Hell. Tear down every union in the world, get government completely out of education, and eliminate all educational tax breaks, including non-taxation of schools and student loans.

1) Your rant against the Chicago teachers does no in any sense invalidate my statement.
2) Do you think they might have valid grievances and want to fight for better standards with the result that it will improve education and funding from the city?

Maybe you think that teachers should stand silent to watch what has been gained in the last 100 years be destroyed by austerity measures, imposed by the rich to save them a few tax dollars, whilst they outsource their business to foreign countries that do educate their children to a standard I was talking about.

Note the false dichotomy implied by this statement:

The Chicago teachers union has just put all of the city's teachers on strike

The fact is that "the city's teachers" are they same as "the union". That's what 'union' means - a democratic organisation that defends its members rights.

chaz wyman wrote:That's what 'union' means - a democratic organisation that defends its members rights.

I'm afraid you didn't complete that sentence. A union is an organization that defends its members rights to screw the public.

chaz wyman wrote:Do you think (teachers unions) might have valid grievances and want to fight for better standards with the result that it will improve education and funding from the city?
Maybe you think that teachers should stand silent to watch what has been gained in the last 100 years be destroyed by austerity measures, imposed by the rich to save them a few tax dollars, whilst they outsource their business to foreign countries that do educate their children to a standard I was talking about.

a) The U.S. federal, state and local governments spend more per capita on education than any other country on Earth, and we have the dumbest students in the world because of it. Get the fucking unions out of education and get the fucking government out of education. If the government and unions were put in charge of the Sahara desert, in ten years there would be a shortage of sand (paraphrasing the late great economist Milton Friedman's comments on government).

b) Your comment on businesses outsourcing to foreign countries shows you know absolutely nothing about economics, so please stay away from that subject.

Impenitent wrote:

bus2bondi wrote:what's a human being without a symbol?

not quite...

what's a symbol without human meaning?

-Imp

what's human meaning without a symbol?

bobevenson wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:That's what 'union' means - a democratic organisation that defends its members rights.

I'm afraid you didn't complete that sentence. A union is an organization that defends its members rights to screw the public.

The unions are the public you fascist moron.
The unions have resisted the tendency for all capitalist systems to put increasing downward pressure on wages - the result is to the benefit of all workers, as non union businesses have had to try to maintain parity with unions rates.
Any one who has ever earned a wage should thank the unions.
The other benefits of this process is to maintain the stimulation of demand that keeps capitalism turning.

bobevenson wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:Do you think (teachers unions) might have valid grievances and want to fight for better standards with the result that it will improve education and funding from the city?
Maybe you think that teachers should stand silent to watch what has been gained in the last 100 years be destroyed by austerity measures, imposed by the rich to save them a few tax dollars, whilst they outsource their business to foreign countries that do educate their children to a standard I was talking about.

a) The U.S. federal, state and local governments spend more per capita on education than any other country on Earth, and we have the dumbest students in the world because of it.

You are talking like a fuckwit. Please cite your "facts".
Oh shit you can't because you are talking bollocks , as per usual.

Get the fucking unions out of education and get the fucking government out of education. If the government and unions were put in charge of the Sahara desert, in ten years there would be a shortage of sand (paraphrasing the late great economist Milton Friedman's comments on government).

So- your solution. Pay teachers less, and they will get better results?
Seems like you are talking more of that bollocks.

b) Your comment on businesses outsourcing to foreign countries shows you know absolutely nothing about economics, so please stay away from that subject.

Are you saying that US companies don't do that?

chaz wyman wrote:

bobevenson wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:That's what 'union' means - a democratic organisation that defends its members rights.

I'm afraid you didn't complete that sentence. A union is an organization that defends its members rights to screw the public.

The unions are the public you fascist moron.
The unions have resisted the tendency for all capitalist systems to put increasing downward pressure on wages - the result is to the benefit of all workers, as non union businesses have had to try to maintain parity with unions rates.
Any one who has ever earned a wage should thank the unions.
The other benefits of this process is to maintain the stimulation of demand that keeps capitalism turning.

Let me give you a short lesson in economics, you damn fool. Unions have always demanded a minimum wage to keep blacks from being hired and taking jobs from whites. If you make the minimum wage high enough, it is easy for employers to discriminate against blacks, but if there is no minimum wage, and some employers hire blacks at lower pay, it is difficult to practice racial discrimination when it hurts you in the pocketbook. Please stay away from economics because you simply have no understanding of the subject.

chaz wyman wrote:

bobevenson wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:Do you think (teachers unions) might have valid grievances and want to fight for better standards with the result that it will improve education and funding from the city?
Maybe you think that teachers should stand silent to watch what has been gained in the last 100 years be destroyed by austerity measures, imposed by the rich to save them a few tax dollars, whilst they outsource their business to foreign countries that do educate their children to a standard I was talking about.

a) The U.S. federal, state and local governments spend more per capita on education than any other country on Earth, and we have the dumbest students in the world because of it.

You are talking like a fuckwit. Please cite your "facts".
Oh shit you can't because you are talking bollocks , as per usual.

Get the fucking unions out of education and get the fucking government out of education. If the government and unions were put in charge of the Sahara desert, in ten years there would be a shortage of sand (paraphrasing the late great economist Milton Friedman's comments on government).

So- your solution. Pay teachers less, and they will get better results?
Seems like you are talking more of that bollocks.

b) Your comment on businesses outsourcing to foreign countries shows you know absolutely nothing about economics, so please stay away from that subject.

Are you saying that US companies don't do that?

U.S. companies outsource all the time, and it provides Americans with less expensive products. Stay away from economics because you have no understanding of the subject, just like the people who have brought Europe to its economic knees!

bus2bondi wrote:

Impenitent wrote:

bus2bondi wrote:what's a human being without a symbol?

not quite...

what's a symbol without human meaning?

-Imp

what's human meaning without a symbol?

which type of symbol? stories are told in unwritten (unsymbolic) language often

-Imp

bobevenson wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:
The unions are the public you fascist moron.
The unions have resisted the tendency for all capitalist systems to put increasing downward pressure on wages - the result is to the benefit of all workers, as non union businesses have had to try to maintain parity with unions rates.
Any one who has ever earned a wage should thank the unions.
The other benefits of this process is to maintain the stimulation of demand that keeps capitalism turning.

Let me give you a short lesson in economics, you damn fool. Unions have always demanded a minimum wage to keep blacks from being hired and taking jobs from whites..

This is the most illogical and bizarre thing I have read for a long while.
Not only is is false - it is incoherent.
You are clinically insane.

bobevenson wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:

bobevenson wrote:
a) The U.S. federal, state and local governments spend more per capita on education than any other country on Earth, and we have the dumbest students in the world because of it.

You are talking like a fuckwit. Please cite your "facts".
Oh shit you can't because you are talking bollocks , as per usual.

Get the fucking unions out of education and get the fucking government out of education. If the government and unions were put in charge of the Sahara desert, in ten years there would be a shortage of sand (paraphrasing the late great economist Milton Friedman's comments on government).

So- your solution. Pay teachers less, and they will get better results?
Seems like you are talking more of that bollocks.

b) Your comment on businesses outsourcing to foreign countries shows you know absolutely nothing about economics, so please stay away from that subject.

Are you saying that US companies don't do that?

U.S. companies outsource all the time, and it provides Americans with less expensive products. Stay away from economics because you have no understanding of the subject, just like the people who have brought Europe to its economic knees!

Europe is fucked because we out-source more than you.
Business does not outsource to provide the us public with cheap goods, but to make profit anywhere they can sell.
The trouble is that so many jobs are out sourced there is no one with enough money to but 'cheap goods'. BECAUSE THEY DON"T HAVE A FUCKING JOB
The only remaining jobs require an educated workforce which the US can neither supply because morons like you are running down education.
The jobs of the future in an outsourced world will need an increasing calibre of worker, educated to a higher standard. Some parts of Europe know that all too well and have the best educated and 'value-added' technical jobs available.
Germany is streets ahead of the US and the UK in this respect.

But you are too stupid to get this.

bobevenson wrote:

a) The U.S. federal, state and local governments spend more per capita on education than any other country on Earth, and we have the dumbest students in the world because of it.

The US ranks 55th in %GDP on education spending.
Many countries achieve more by spending much less.

The reason why you have the dumbest students certainly needs some explanation, but the $7000 you spend each year per child is more than it should be.
US teachers are also notoriously underpaid - this also needs some explanation.

I would imagine that your procurement policies, run by city officials is corrupt.
In my experience the US does not understand the concept of a 'conflict of interest' as we do in the UK.
City officials in control of procurement cannot run the supply business, and are bound to select the lowest tender.
To my own knowledge this is not the case in the US, where city pigs often have their snouts in the trough, and private business has a field day of over pricing.