Philosophy Now Forum

spike wrote:

Making money from money is parasitism.
It produces nothing to the benefit of the system.

There goes Chaz shooting off his mouth again, talking about something he knows nothing about. Money is like labour. It can and should work. It generates investment capital from which additional things can be produced and built.

The majority of us just try to make some money from our invested money so we can live off it in our retirement, without depending on others.

In your retirement, where is your money coming from Chaz, strictly from the government?

I receive nothing from my government, but do not resent those that need it from receiving it.

What is your point?

Arising makes a great point, and one that is going to be a big shock to the world.

Money paid out to people, for whatever reason, has to be drawn from the immanent economy.
Money is not in any sense future proof. It cannot be stored. It is only based on the wealth of the currency a the time of issue.
Buying a pension is gambling.

chaz wyman wrote:Arising makes a great point, and one that is going to be a big shock to the world.

Money paid out to people, for whatever reason, has to be drawn from the immanent economy.
Money is not in any sense future proof. It cannot be stored. It is only based on the wealth of the currency a the time of issue.
Buying a pension is gambling.

You sound like a good Marxist.

Arising has a point but not a great one.

Money can't be stored.

That is a new one. (What are banks for.) It is thought that electricity can't be stored either. But it can, in batteries, for future use. The storing of money happens and serves the same purpose. Now, if you store it in a mattress you could loose it.

Arising: "Your invested money is exactly dependent upon the backs of others." We all live in a world built on the backs of others, including you, whether money is involved or not.

Arising: "...hence we need immigrants to pay for our pensions in the future." Immigration is good for a country. It gives a nation added vitality. It is good for the immigrants also, who come from retched lives elsewhere. Immigration also help integrate the world and make it a more peaceful place. And a city Like London would be a dowdy and boring place without immigrants.

spike wrote:

Money can't be stored.

That is a new one. (What are banks for.) It is thought that electricity can't be stored either. But it can, in batteries, for future use. The storing of money happens and serves the same purpose. Now, if you store it in a mattress you could loose it.

I think the point was that you can't store the value of the money because it's value is determined at the time you wish to spend it. I can put an amount of money in the bank or under my mattress but rampant inflation could render it worthless so I haven't actually stored the original spending power, or value. I believe that's what the point was.

spike wrote:That is a new one. (What are banks for.) It is thought that electricity can't be stored either. But it can, in batteries, for future use. The storing of money happens and serves the same purpose. Now, if you store it in a mattress you could loose it.

But batteries can't hold a charge forever? So are not a good way of storing electricity for future use.

Banks don't store money, thats why banks can be run upon.

We all live in a world built on the backs of others, including you, whether money is involved or not.

Which goes against your idea that you are not dependent upon others.

Immigration is good for a country. It gives a nation added vitality. It is good for the immigrants also, who come from retched lives elsewhere. Immigration also help integrate the world and make it a more peaceful place. And a city Like London would be a dowdy and boring place without immigrants.

That depends if the immigrants are working and paying taxes. A big influx of immigrants can make trouble in civil society as it depends upon whether they will integrate or not.

Its confidence in a future that makes economy and society work profitably.

Arising:

Which goes against your idea that you are not dependent upon others.

Where the shit did you get that, off one of your candy rappers?. Never said or inferred that.

Overall, immigration is good! From its beginnings Britain has been developed by immigrant. It is the most mongrel nation in the world.

But batteries can't hold a charge forever? So are not a good way of storing electricity for future use.

You recharge. That's life. And that's where Marx when wrong, not giving any thought to that. He though you made your bead once and that was it.

Nothing is static, not even money so that is why you have to put in to work, to make money.

spike wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:Arising makes a great point, and one that is going to be a big shock to the world.

Money paid out to people, for whatever reason, has to be drawn from the immanent economy.
Money is not in any sense future proof. It cannot be stored. It is only based on the wealth of the currency a the time of issue.
Buying a pension is gambling.

spike wrote: You sound like a good Marxist.

Arising has a point but not a great one.

I don't think you'd know a Marxist if one hit you in the face like a wet fish.

If you stored money like a battery (or the great bank of the under mattress), in no sense would it's value to the economy as a whole be brought forward into the present. As soon as it was spent it would act just like printing money; inflationary.

I don't think you'd know a Marxist if one hit you in the face like a wet fish.

My son-in-law is a Marxist in the UK.

spike wrote:

I don't think you'd know a Marxist if one hit you in the face like a wet fish.

My son-in-law is a Marxist in the UK.

Wow - that must make you an expert!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SSOWORzw4

So, what was it about what I said that makes me a Marxist?

spike wrote:...
Where the shit did you get that, off one of your candy rappers?. Never said or inferred that.

spike wrote:... without depending on others.

Overall, immigration is good! From its beginnings Britain has been developed by immigrant. It is the most mongrel nation in the world.

Its been developed by invasion. Immigration is a recent thing and immigrants make up about 10% of the population. Not that I don't think its one of the most multi-racial Europeon countries about nor that this is not a good thing.

spike wrote:My son-in-law is a Marxist in the UK.

What museum, zoo or loony-bin can I visit him in?

Arising_uk wrote:

spike wrote:...
Where the shit did you get that, off one of your candy rappers?. Never said or inferred that.

spike wrote:... without depending on others.

Overall, immigration is good! From its beginnings Britain has been developed by immigrant. It is the most mongrel nation in the world.

Its been developed by invasion. Immigration is a recent thing and immigrants make up about 10% of the population. Not that I don't think its one of the most multi-racial Europeon countries about nor that this is not a good thing.

Its more common than you think. I also disagree with your distinction between immigrant and invader - why is that important?

chaz wyman wrote:Its more common than you think. I also disagree with your distinction between immigrant and invader - why is that important?

Whats more common than I think?

Its important to me as it makes spikes argument more tenuous, as there is a difference today between the immigrant and the invader, much as many wish to see the immigrant as an invader.

Arising_uk wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:Its more common than you think. I also disagree with your distinction between immigrant and invader - why is that important?

Whats more common than I think?

Historical immigration.

Its important to me as it makes spikes argument more tenuous, as there is a difference today between the immigrant and the invader, much as many wish to see the immigrant as an invader.

I hadn't realised that Spike had an 'argument' worth addressing. I'll look back...