Philosophy Now Forum

Well, the first ordinary sense we made of the word was when we used it to describe things that weren't a part of a set. We could point at a piece of igneous rock and say, 'That's not real shale' and then later 'that's not a real passport'

When philosophers get hold of the word, however, it loses nearly all its meaning and becomes part of some strange kind of poetry, examples include:

"Bro, what is really real if what is real isn't real? You know what i mean?"

"The dialectic synthesis of a conflicting irrational antithesis manifests itself as the Real"

"(real ) is an artificial abstract construct. Illusory."

Objects know nothing, objects are known by nothing.

Every concept known is an artificial secondary conceptual overlay upon this unknowable reality. A Superimposed fiction on behalf of a separate-self in this conception. Reality is one without a second.There’s no separate-self, except in this conception, known by nothing.

"Objects know nothing, objects are known by nothing"

Alright I'm'a help you out.

Pretend you are a critic of what you just said there, and your purpose is to prove it false or nonsensical. Can you do it? Shirley, you can. Right away, we can forward an argument something like this: "well, if that statement is a sensible object itself - which i imagine it would have to be or else she wouldn't be talking about anything and i can dismiss the statement altogether - then neither of us can know what she said (because objects are known by nothing) if what she said turns out being true."

The thing collapses on itself, and you are found to be talking nonsense.

How did i get there. I referred back to the most ordinary understanding of the word 'object' i have ever found meaningful without question. The referencing of/to a thing.

And, moreover, whatever else you make that word 'object' mean, that original meaning will never change and you will be doing just that... referencing.

So we've learned that any statement trying to strip all reference to the object has already failed miserably.

I will leave this to two stellar genius's.

I see someone cannot distinguish between the perceptible and intelligible. Where one has all meaning, the perceptible, but the intelligible, a method of virtual computation has no meaning at all. So, when one is too stupid to comprehend the difference, they do not know which is which and claim the one is the other. Or, back to the old argument, where one claims everything is in motion, and the other everything is stationary. Or in short, one is to illiterate to know the difference between noun and verb. Complete computational failure.

Libraries of the world are already full of this shit, and you guys want more.

Well, i dunno about all that, but I'm a pretty firm "a word's meaning is its use" kind of guy so simple self-referential contradictions like presenting an object (statement) saying essentially that statements can't exist... or can but can't be called objects eerily enough... are commonsense to me without having to read Plato.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:43 pm Well, i dunno about all that, but I'm a pretty firm "a word's meaning is its use" kind of guy so simple self-referential contradictions like presenting an object (statement) saying essentially that statements can't exist... or can but can't be called objects eerily enough... is commonsense to me without having to read Plato.

Plato. "A word, a name, in of itself has no meaning." claiming it has a meaning is anthropomorphic.
A thing is defined by its limits and the material within those limits." We name noun and verbs.
So, our association using words is one part conventional, one part cause and effect." the inability to keep your own associations in mind, and how they come to be what they are in the virtual realm of memory, only means you are congenitally illiterate. We learn to become literate by realizing what the fuck we are actually doing. Modelling to predict the results of behavior. Our predictions, if we are competent enough to make them, decide our actions, our behavior.

If a thing is real, it means it is defined as a thing, i.e. using two parts of speech, material and form, verb and noun. Read Plato and Aristotle until you get what they are saying.

Contemplate the computer, 0 and 1. one is material, the other a limit. off, on, off, like a light switch.

the foundation of all reasoning, as Aristotle said, what he learnt from Plato, is assertion and denial, there is no third man, tap your forehead with your finger. do it long enough you might get it. After all Morse got the code.

Now, Here is the harder one.

Every grammar has two parts, symbol sets and methods of recursively using them.

Thus every grammar has the two parts of the conventional, and every one the causal.

Which of the four is the inverse of the others, and how.

What you do know, by your past discourses, is you habitually try to use both parts of speech indifferently, i.e. blind to the process of literature. Aristotle claimed that such a state is being able to reason like a vegetable. You cannot give and keep your own words if you cannot even fucking parse them.

Cool. I have been ordering my 4T Hitachi drives on eBay. Now, these, run new about 400$ apiece and most refurbish from 120 to sometimes 350$, now this place only uses serial numbers, so most people do not know they are SATA and not SAS.

Anyway, this place was selling them at 33$ and the one's I already bought were excellent. But I ordered a new raid box, and it needed drives, so, I decided to make an offer on them, 28$ a piece, and he sold me four.

Damned good deal. These drives are really fast.

Hitachi 4TB 7.2K W/. Tray for NL400 (H3U40006472S)
Quantity : 4
US $118.72

I toss the tray in the garbage. these are from someplace that has a lot of servers and they just did a mass update on their own system. One can profit from the Corporations as they are, and rightfully so, cautious to a fault.

I have IDE drives that are still working fine, even though I got them used a very long time ago. I just backed them up yesterday. I will trash them.

Wow, the seller has only sold 11 of these, and I have bought 8 of them, maybe I should tell him the reason sales are lacking is the way he listed them. By giving a drive number, and not realized people have to be told these are SATA and not SAS.

Well obviously it’s not meant to be that simple and basic and ordinary is it, and of course it can’t be too obvious, I mean to the point that can’t be right.
Personally I’d rather just explain these things in a way that is so simple and effortless that nobody knows what the heck I’m talking about. Simple, just as it is without the minds filters appears to get them flummoxed everytime.



In a nutshell nothing knows nothing. There’s just unknowing knowing. The zombie jamboree. Nothing is literally preventing this. This is it, exactly as it is, with or without the mind’s filter.

Awareness is the great non-conceptual perfection. - Dzogchen

Don’t faint!

Fairy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 15, 2025 5:57 am Well obviously it’s not meant to be that simple and basic and ordinary is it, and of course it can’t be too obvious, I mean to the point that can’t be right.
Personally I’d rather just explain these things in a way that is so simple and effortless that nobody knows what the heck I’m talking about. Simple, just as it is without the minds filters appears to get them flummoxed everytime.



In a nutshell nothing knows nothing. There’s just unknowing knowing. The zombie jamboree. Nothing is literally preventing this. This is it, exactly as it is, with or without the mind’s filter.

Awareness is the great non-conceptual perfection. - Dzogchen

Don’t faint!

Harry Belafonte Lyrics
"Zombie Jamboree"

It was a Zombie Jamboree
Took place in a New York cemetery
It was a Zombie Jamboree
Took place in a New York cemetery

Zombies from all parts of the Island
Some of them was a great Calypsonians
Although the season was Carnival
We get together in bacchanal
And they singing

Back to back, belly to belly
I don't give a damn, I done dead already
Oho back to back, belly to belly
At the Zombie Jamboree

One female Zombie wouldn't behave
See how she jumping out of the grave
In one hand a quarter rum
In the other hand she knocking Congo drum
Believe singer start to make his rhyme
The Zombies are racking their bones in thyme
One bystander had this to say
T was a pleasure to see the Zombies break away

Back to back, belly to belly
I don't give a damn, I done dead already
Oho back to back, belly to belly
At the Zombie Jamboree

I goin' talk to Miss Brigit Bardot
And tell her miss Bardot take it slow
All the men think they're Casanova
When they see that she's bare foot all over
Even old men out into beaker
Find their hearts getting weaker and weaker
So I goin' to ask her for your sake and mine
At least to wear her ear rings part at the time

Back to back, belly to belly
I don't give a damn, I done dead already
Oho back to back, belly to belly
At the Zombie Jamboree

A lot of World leaders talkin' bout war
And I'm afraid they're going too far
So its up to us you and me
To put an end to Catastrophe
We must appeal to their goodness of heart
And ask them to breech in and please do their part
Cause if this Atomic war begin
They won't even have a part to breech in

Back to back, belly to belly

Conrad Eugene Mauge, Jr.

Well, now, back to back, belly to belly, well, I don't give a damn 'cause I done that already, back to back
Belly to belly at the zombie jamboree.(Repeat) (Now hear the) (You can feel that) (Oh, what a good game)(You're all alone, you know)

Zombie jamboree took place in a New York cemetery (Where?) Zombie jamboree took place in Long Island cemetery.
Zombies from all parts of the island. (Where?) Some of them are great calypsonians. (Some.)
Since the season was carnival they got together in bacchanal. Oh, what ya' doin'?

One female zombie wouldn't behave. She say she want me for a slave.
In the one hand she's holding a quart of wine, in the other she's pointing that she'll be mine.
Well, believe me folks, I had to run. (Why?) A husband of a zombie ain't no fun! (Don't knock it!)
I says, "Oh, no, my turtle dove, that old bag of bones I cannot love." Oh, what you doin'?

Right then and there she raise her feet. "I'm a-going to catch you now, my sweet.
I'm gonna make you call me 'Sweetie Pie'." I says "Oh, no, get back, you lie!"
"I may be lyin' but you will see (What?) After you kiss this dead zombie." (Blah!)
Well, I never seen such a horror in my life. Can you imagine me with a zombie wife? (Yes!)

promethean75 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:10 pm "Objects know nothing, objects are known by nothing"

Alright I'm'a help you out.

Pretend you are a critic of what you just said there, and your purpose is to prove it false or nonsensical. Can you do it? Shirley, you can. Right away, we can forward an argument something like this: "well, if that statement is a sensible object itself - which i imagine it would have to be or else she wouldn't be talking about anything and i can dismiss the statement altogether - then neither of us can know what she said (because objects are known by nothing) if what she said turns out being true."

The thing collapses on itself, and you are found to be talking nonsense.

How did i get there. I referred back to the most ordinary understanding of the word 'object' i have ever found meaningful without question. The referencing of/to a thing.

And, moreover, whatever else you make that word 'object' mean, that original meaning will never change and you will be doing just that... referencing.

So we've learned that any statement trying to strip all reference to the object has already failed miserably.

Every thing other than pure knowing is essentially an object of perception…knowing/consciousness/awareness is not an object of perception, therefore cannot be known objectively. The knower cannot know itself, it can only know that it is. It’s not an object known, therefore knowing / consciousness/ awareness is this immediate not- knowing/ unknowing knowing.

Reality never needs to make sense, reality simply is, exactly as it is. Including the illusory apparent conceptual secondary overlay.