Re: Loops and Void
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 6:02 pm
The one occurs as many.
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The one occurs as many.
Apologies for the late response, I was not aware of your response.huphuphup123 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 26, 2025 8:50 pm Hi, I need help understanding.
I understand the part that at the start, negation of negation leads to a positive.
But I dont understand what happens after, wouldn't you just have positive=positive infinitely? How do you get the next thing?
so before I can go on, I am stuck on this partEodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 13, 2025 5:52 amApologies for the late response, I was not aware of your response.huphuphup123 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 26, 2025 8:50 pm Hi, I need help understanding.
I understand the part that at the start, negation of negation leads to a positive.
But I dont understand what happens after, wouldn't you just have positive=positive infinitely? How do you get the next thing?
Philosophy is often a language game of meanings so I will help but I prefer if you ask further questions if the explanation appears unclear from your point of view.
So...to begin...
1. Negation of negation leads to a positive.
2. A positive of a positive results in one positive as relative "greater" than another thus a relative negation of degrees of a positive occurs.
2a. Think of Grey becoming white, shades of Grey continue to exist but with each shade there is less and less black.
3. A dualism of positive and negative occurs.
4. The presence of this dualism is a positive.
5. This positive results in a negative, ie an absence of said dualism for positive is distinct by what it is not, absence.
6. There is a dualism of dualism.
7. This presence of "a dualism of dualism" is a positive.
8. The presence of "a dualism of dualism" results in a negative form positive is distinct by what it is not, absence.
9. There is a dualism of dualism of dualism.
10. This occurs infinitely thus there are infinite dualisms by degree of grades of a primary dualism.
11. All things occur dualistically, at minimum by degree of "presence" and "absence".
12. There are infinite degrees of relative presence and absence, that is what constitutes all things we observe as distinct.
Hope that helps...again apologies for late response. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask...there are no dumb questions.
If you disagree with the book please feel free to disagree. No hard feelings.
So I understand you are saying the second is more positive than the first, which is like saying the first is more negative than the second which means there is a negative here. A positive of a positive results in one positive as relative "greater" than another thus a relative negation of degrees of a positive occurs.
Sure, no problem.huphuphup123 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 13, 2025 6:14 pmso before I can go on, I am stuck on this partEodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 13, 2025 5:52 amApologies for the late response, I was not aware of your response.huphuphup123 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 26, 2025 8:50 pm Hi, I need help understanding.
I understand the part that at the start, negation of negation leads to a positive.
But I dont understand what happens after, wouldn't you just have positive=positive infinitely? How do you get the next thing?
Philosophy is often a language game of meanings so I will help but I prefer if you ask further questions if the explanation appears unclear from your point of view.
So...to begin...
1. Negation of negation leads to a positive.
2. A positive of a positive results in one positive as relative "greater" than another thus a relative negation of degrees of a positive occurs.
2a. Think of Grey becoming white, shades of Grey continue to exist but with each shade there is less and less black.
3. A dualism of positive and negative occurs.
4. The presence of this dualism is a positive.
5. This positive results in a negative, ie an absence of said dualism for positive is distinct by what it is not, absence.
6. There is a dualism of dualism.
7. This presence of "a dualism of dualism" is a positive.
8. The presence of "a dualism of dualism" results in a negative form positive is distinct by what it is not, absence.
9. There is a dualism of dualism of dualism.
10. This occurs infinitely thus there are infinite dualisms by degree of grades of a primary dualism.
11. All things occur dualistically, at minimum by degree of "presence" and "absence".
12. There are infinite degrees of relative presence and absence, that is what constitutes all things we observe as distinct.
Hope that helps...again apologies for late response. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask...there are no dumb questions.
If you disagree with the book please feel free to disagree. No hard feelings.
So I understand you are saying the second is more positive than the first, which is like saying the first is more negative than the second which means there is a negative here. A positive of a positive results in one positive as relative "greater" than another thus a relative negation of degrees of a positive occurs.
but can you put it in logical letters like A and not-A or 'something' and 'nothing'
because you aren't saying A=not-A right? The statement must be different to show a relative absence within the first positive
So to start you have not-A =not-A in the beginning
then you get A which is like A=A
but then A=A turns itself into what? It wouldn't be A=not-A, and like you could add brackets (A=A) = not-A or something like that, but I keep thinking A=not-A negates itself into not-A,
like if you have the color red and you have another red which is redder than the first, then you are not saying the absence of the second red is the first red, but rather it would be something else whilst the first red stays there
I understand your point but in the context of the book a positive can equal a negative. In western reasoning this may seem counterintuitive...but counterintuitive truths exist.huphuphup123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 2:28 am Positve = positve are two positives, but one positive in relation to another is a negative, so (positive = positive) = negative, it is making sense
but there needs to be clarification that you are not saying positive = negative, if one positive is a negative in relation to the other positive, then were you actually saying positive = negative to begin with?
but (positive = positive) = negative, with brackets make sense kind of
How does change occur?
Just noting that Kant's thing-in-itself can by definition not be proven, can by definition not be made subject to human observation, that's the point. So this is a non-Kantian thing-in-itself.
[/quote]As to change:
We understand things by contrast, obviously I am repeating things here, and this contrast necessitates a transition of one appearance into another. For a thing to be distinct there must be change. But what is change? It is a process of emerging and dissolving distinctions. But what causes the process? Potentiality.
For change to occur there must be the potential to do so, there must be a void by which things are. If a tree is distinct from a car there must be a void of the tree in a car and a void of car in the tree. In another respect if a car is to move from point A to point B there must be a void of relative things for the movement to occur. Change is thus the manifestation of something from nothing, nothing being potentiality, potentiality being void (these three terms are synonymous).
So what is change fundamentally?
The presence of potentiality within actuality as the absence of actuality. A thing containing its opposite, akin to quantum superpositioning in some respects as potentiality and actuality are superimposed.
In simpler terms, and you may want to ask further questions for the following statement: change is the distinction of potentiality by degree of actuality of potentiality as a distinction. The current Grok 4 AI model presented something very similar to this when ask about the nature of God, ie existence.
But when a thing contains its opposite, does this mean that the thing is in exist for a moment before it turns into its opposite, or would it always eternally have been non existence? Wouldn't it be the latter?huphuphup123 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 01, 2025 9:31 pmAs to change:
We understand things by contrast, obviously I am repeating things here, and this contrast necessitates a transition of one appearance into another. For a thing to be distinct there must be change. But what is change? It is a process of emerging and dissolving distinctions. But what causes the process? Potentiality.
For change to occur there must be the potential to do so, there must be a void by which things are. If a tree is distinct from a car there must be a void of the tree in a car and a void of car in the tree. In another respect if a car is to move from point A to point B there must be a void of relative things for the movement to occur. Change is thus the manifestation of something from nothing, nothing being potentiality, potentiality being void (these three terms are synonymous).
So what is change fundamentally?
The presence of potentiality within actuality as the absence of actuality. A thing containing its opposite, akin to quantum superpositioning in some respects as potentiality and actuality are superimposed.
In simpler terms, and you may want to ask further questions for the following statement: change is the distinction of potentiality by degree of actuality of potentiality as a distinction. The current Grok 4 AI model presented something very similar to this when ask about the nature of God, ie existence.
[/quote]If you look at a frequency it goes up and down. At the down point it inverts into the up point. At the up point it inverts into the down point. When a thing goes to a relative extreme, within a given framework, it resorts to its opposite.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 02, 2025 12:44 amBut when a thing contains its opposite, does this mean that the thing is in exist for a moment before it turns into its opposite, or would it always eternally have been non existence? Wouldn't it be the latter?
quantum superpositioning means something is there and not there at the same time, but only when you observe it then you can say it is one of them as if you cannot actually measure change.
Everyday people reflect this. A man who has experienced deep conflict often moves towards peace. A man who has experienced deep peace often move towards conflict. This can be seen in countries as well.
What is unified in one respect is seperate in another. A chair is a unified set of parts but exists because it is not a car. A thing is by what it is not, thus the things identity contains its oppositional nature, ie "not-x".
Now for existence what is actual contains its potential and what is potential contains its actual.
For example there is a car. The car is actual. It is distinct. It contains within its actuality different ways of actualizing: doors open and close, tires move, it moves from point A to point B.
Now the potential of the car contains the actual. The potential of the doors to open and close, tires move, traveling from point A to point B, allows the car to exist for if it could not do such things it would not be an fully actual car.
Now going into deep metaphysics:
A point is actual by degree of its comparison to other points.
A point is potential by degree of the actual points which may come from it.
A point is purely 0d space. Void. When void is made distinct as potential there is actuality as the distinction itself of there being potential.
Think of a yin yang.
Superpostioning, specifically this term, can be observed as multiple states existing as once. This can be observed in simple paradoxes, like the "ship of theseus", schrodinger's cat (obviously), the "all cretans are liars", etc. where the paradox is a state of observation.
But superpositioning can be expressed further. A simple form of "xyz", as any geometric form you can imagine, may have form "x", form "y" and form "z" existing all at once as a new form....multiple superimposed forms as a new form.
This makes sense but what I was asking isn't what change is, but how change occurs, like what causes what. Do you say that it happens from recursion/paradox/self-reference. Like you said the liar's paradox leads to a gradient truth and false at the same time. But the question is how the change happens from there not being both true and false thing, to there being one, after it all starts from nothing.huphuphup123 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 03, 2025 2:18 pmIf you look at a frequency it goes up and down. At the down point it inverts into the up point. At the up point it inverts into the down point. When a thing goes to a relative extreme, within a given framework, it resorts to its opposite.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 02, 2025 12:44 am
But when a thing contains its opposite, does this mean that the thing is in exist for a moment before it turns into its opposite, or would it always eternally have been non existence? Wouldn't it be the latter?
quantum superpositioning means something is there and not there at the same time, but only when you observe it then you can say it is one of them as if you cannot actually measure change.
Everyday people reflect this. A man who has experienced deep conflict often moves towards peace. A man who has experienced deep peace often move towards conflict. This can be seen in countries as well.
What is unified in one respect is seperate in another. A chair is a unified set of parts but exists because it is not a car. A thing is by what it is not, thus the things identity contains its oppositional nature, ie "not-x".
Now for existence what is actual contains its potential and what is potential contains its actual.
For example there is a car. The car is actual. It is distinct. It contains within its actuality different ways of actualizing: doors open and close, tires move, it moves from point A to point B.
Now the potential of the car contains the actual. The potential of the doors to open and close, tires move, traveling from point A to point B, allows the car to exist for if it could not do such things it would not be an fully actual car.
Now going into deep metaphysics:
A point is actual by degree of its comparison to other points.
A point is potential by degree of the actual points which may come from it.
A point is purely 0d space. Void. When void is made distinct as potential there is actuality as the distinction itself of there being potential.
Think of a yin yang.
Superpostioning, specifically this term, can be observed as multiple states existing as once. This can be observed in simple paradoxes, like the "ship of theseus", schrodinger's cat (obviously), the "all cretans are liars", etc. where the paradox is a state of observation.
But superpositioning can be expressed further. A simple form of "xyz", as any geometric form you can imagine, may have form "x", form "y" and form "z" existing all at once as a new form....multiple superimposed forms as a new form.
Cool....so will I will start slow and then build up.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 08, 2025 5:14 amThis makes sense but what I was asking isn't what change is, but how change occurs, like what causes what. Do you say that it happens from recursion/paradox/self-reference. Like you said the liar's paradox leads to a gradient truth and false at the same time. But the question is how the change happens from there not being both true and false thing, to there being one, after it all starts from nothing.huphuphup123 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 03, 2025 2:18 pm
If you look at a frequency it goes up and down. At the down point it inverts into the up point. At the up point it inverts into the down point. When a thing goes to a relative extreme, within a given framework, it resorts to its opposite.
Everyday people reflect this. A man who has experienced deep conflict often moves towards peace. A man who has experienced deep peace often move towards conflict. This can be seen in countries as well.
What is unified in one respect is seperate in another. A chair is a unified set of parts but exists because it is not a car. A thing is by what it is not, thus the things identity contains its oppositional nature, ie "not-x".
Now for existence what is actual contains its potential and what is potential contains its actual.
For example there is a car. The car is actual. It is distinct. It contains within its actuality different ways of actualizing: doors open and close, tires move, it moves from point A to point B.
Now the potential of the car contains the actual. The potential of the doors to open and close, tires move, traveling from point A to point B, allows the car to exist for if it could not do such things it would not be an fully actual car.
Now going into deep metaphysics:
A point is actual by degree of its comparison to other points.
A point is potential by degree of the actual points which may come from it.
A point is purely 0d space. Void. When void is made distinct as potential there is actuality as the distinction itself of there being potential.
Think of a yin yang.
Superpostioning, specifically this term, can be observed as multiple states existing as once. This can be observed in simple paradoxes, like the "ship of theseus", schrodinger's cat (obviously), the "all cretans are liars", etc. where the paradox is a state of observation.
But superpositioning can be expressed further. A simple form of "xyz", as any geometric form you can imagine, may have form "x", form "y" and form "z" existing all at once as a new form....multiple superimposed forms as a new form.
Like when you had the list of presence and absence starting from nothing=nothing, cant all of those things happen at the same time, it isn't saying that postive and negative exists for a moment on its own and then you get "presence and absence" being positive