Philosophy Now Forum

Searching for physical proof of a metaphysical entity is, indeed a fool's errand. Just as bestowing a metaphysical entity physical attributes.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:08 pm Searching for physical proof of a metaphysical entity is, indeed a fool's errand. Just as bestowing a metaphysical entity physical attributes.

Oh I don't know. I expect AI brain scans will be able to find them. That's where all metaphysical entities exist after all.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:24 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:08 pm Searching for physical proof of a metaphysical entity is, indeed a fool's errand. Just as bestowing a metaphysical entity physical attributes.

Oh I don't know. I expect AI brain scans will be able to find them. That's where all metaphysical entities exist after all.

Finding the physical mechanism for the origin of metaphysical entities is not identical to finding those entities, physically.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:24 pm Oh I don't know. I expect AI brain scans will be able to find them. That's where all metaphysical entities exist after all.

According to mathematical Platonism, mathematical objects, such as numbers, are metaphysical objects. A mathematical proof is a program that proves the existence of a particular metaphysical object.

However, not all mathematical objects have a corresponding (existence) proof/program. Mathematical constructivists conclude that these objects don't exist, while Godel's incompleteness theorem insists that they do exist.

Hence, according to mathematical Platonism, mathematics is in fact a subfield in metaphysics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Platonism

Kurt Gödel's Platonism[1] postulates a special kind of mathematical intuition that lets us perceive mathematical objects directly.

Not everybody can understand that, however, because it requires a talent that may even be innate. That is undoubtedly why so many people flunk their math exams. They simply don't have that talent. They cannot see it. They cannot "perceive" it.

Mathematics is the admiral ship of metaphysics.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:56 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:24 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:08 pm Searching for physical proof of a metaphysical entity is, indeed a fool's errand. Just as bestowing a metaphysical entity physical attributes.

Oh I don't know. I expect AI brain scans will be able to find them. That's where all metaphysical entities exist after all.

Finding the physical mechanism for the origin of metaphysical entities is not identical to finding those entities, physically.

Both the mind and body go hand in hand, they’re both identical, but that’s just my opinion.

Nobody knows what the mind and body is, except as a concept. A mentally constructed idea.

What is an idea, I’ve no idea. Neither do I know how physical bodies are conscious. This is all totally unknowable.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:56 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:24 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:08 pm Searching for physical proof of a metaphysical entity is, indeed a fool's errand. Just as bestowing a metaphysical entity physical attributes.

Oh I don't know. I expect AI brain scans will be able to find them. That's where all metaphysical entities exist after all.

Finding the physical mechanism for the origin of metaphysical entities is not identical to finding those entities, physically.

Sounds like a distinction without a difference.

[Commutative, synonymous. You can only find those objects in the matter state of mind.]

godelian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 4:57 pm

It fails to understand how the modern world works. Physicalism is in fact very stupid.

Yet for all of us, including you, it is demonstrable that you are the best you can possibly be, given entropy and nature.

You are not seeing reality and matter correctly, so seeing anything further, ---=- good luck.

Faith without facts is for fools. Faith is not wanting to know the truth.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:24 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:08 pm Searching for physical proof of a metaphysical entity is, indeed a fool's errand. Just as bestowing a metaphysical entity physical attributes.

Oh I don't know. I expect AI brain scans will be able to find them. That's where all metaphysical entities exist after all.

There are no entities in our brains or minds/consciousness, except for ourselves.

The concept or understanding of what/who that is for them does, --- or we would not be able to understand anything about such imaginary entities.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:52 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:56 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:24 pm
Oh I don't know. I expect AI brain scans will be able to find them. That's where all metaphysical entities exist after all.

Finding the physical mechanism for the origin of metaphysical entities is not identical to finding those entities, physically.

Sounds like a distinction without a difference.

[Commutative, synonymous. You can only find those objects in the matter state of mind.]

So figuring out where in my brain I made up the Flying Spaghetti Monster is actually physically finding the FSM? Okay, I respect your opinion.

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 10:23 pm

godelian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 4:57 pm

It fails to understand how the modern world works. Physicalism is in fact very stupid.

Yet for all of us, including you, it is demonstrable that you are the best you can possibly be, given entropy and nature.

You are not seeing reality and matter correctly, so seeing anything further, ---=- good luck.

Faith without facts is for fools. Faith is not wanting to know the truth.

Is the Tesla share price real? What does it have to do with physical entropy?

Greatest I am wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 10:28 pm There are no entities in our brains or minds/consciousness, except for ourselves.

The concept or understanding of what/who that is for them does, --- or we would not be able to understand anything about such imaginary entities.

The interest rate on Japanese treasury bonds is such "imaginary" entity. Through the yen/dollar exchange rate, another invisible fiction, it affects the interest rate on the American treasury bonds, which is another nonphyiscal fiction.

Where is the matter, energy, and entropy to explain these invisible things?

Tariffs are obviously another invisible fiction. Totally imaginary! Show me the physical body or other physical incarnation of a tariff!

By the way, who exactly pays Donald Trump's tariffs on Chinese exports? The Chinese exporter? The Chinese government? The American importer? The retailers such as Walmart who should "eat them"? The American consumer?

Please, explain all the above by means of theoretical physics. I am sure that string theory will come in handy or maybe even Einstein's relativity theory.

Why is it that the news, such as Fox News, or CNN, only speak about completely imaginary fictions instead seeing the physical entropy in them? Are these people mad or stupid or both?

LuckyR wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 1:05 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:52 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:56 pm
Finding the physical mechanism for the origin of metaphysical entities is not identical to finding those entities, physically.

Sounds like a distinction without a difference.

[Commutative, synonymous. You can only find those objects in the matter state of mind.]

So figuring out where in my brain I made up the Flying Spaghetti Monster is actually physically finding the FSM? Okay, I respect your opinion.

Er, what else? Where else does it exist? Apart from the spawn of an image in my mind's eye? And associated ideas. No you don't.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 1:05 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:52 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:56 pm
Finding the physical mechanism for the origin of metaphysical entities is not identical to finding those entities, physically.

Sounds like a distinction without a difference.

[Commutative, synonymous. You can only find those objects in the matter state of mind.]

So figuring out where in my brain I made up the Flying Spaghetti Monster is actually physically finding the FSM? Okay, I respect your opinion.

Er, what else? Where else does it exist? Apart from the image spawned in my mind's eye? And associated ideas. No you don't. All metaphysical entities are instantiated in intentional, human and otherwise, brains.

LuckyR wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 1:05 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:52 pm

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 5:56 pm

Finding the physical mechanism for the origin of metaphysical entities is not identical to finding those entities, physically.

Sounds like a distinction without a difference.

[Commutative, synonymous. You can only find those objects in the matter state of mind.]

So figuring out where in my brain I made up the Flying Spaghetti Monster is actually physically finding the FSM? Okay, I respect your opinion.

The mind being the map of the body, an object in mind. Can invent all sorts of objects, including flying spaghetti monsters.

Thought are things, and things will always exist if they are thought into existence, which they are. No proof is necessary.

Everything is, without doubt or error. It’s the disproof idea you should be more concerned and worried about.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:08 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 1:05 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 7:52 pm
Sounds like a distinction without a difference.

[Commutative, synonymous. You can only find those objects in the matter state of mind.]

So figuring out where in my brain I made up the Flying Spaghetti Monster is actually physically finding the FSM? Okay, I respect your opinion.

Er, what else? Where else does it exist? Apart from the image spawned in my mind's eye? And associated ideas. No you don't. All metaphysical entities are instantiated in intentional, human and otherwise, brains.

Correct. But you are aware there are those who disagree with us and have the opinion that metaphysical entities, like gods, have physical presence and influence, right?