Philosophy Now Forum

A non belief is the paradox of language, the dual nature of cognitive mentation.

The belief in unicorns is a human experience, which just happens to be identical to the non belief in unicorns. Therefore the experience of unicorns as a conceptual idea is a valid experience. What the hell is an experienced belief without also experiencing the capacity to differentiate the distinction between ( I believe) and (I do not believe) both are the same experience.

It’s about understanding the metaphysics of mind made mental constructions, on a very deep level. That’s all.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 10:34 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 6:06 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 4:43 pm
Sorry, I should have said common sense. Like Popper's.

Common sense is relative. What appears as common to a third world tribe differs from what appears as common to a 1st world citizen. Even in the modern world common sense is fragmented into cliques due to social media revealing different groups of perceptions among people....or I can point to the obvious and use this forum as an example.

Indeed. I'm a first worlder. And this is my social medium. All others are utter and complete noise. This forum is afflicted with 98.4% noise. So, common sense reasoning, i.e. the reasoning of the man on the Clapham omnibus. the reasoning that says, yeah, yeah, yeah, we all pull ourselves out of the mire, horse and all, by our own hair, even Kant couldn't escape axioms, but. It's bleedin' obvious that there are infinite non-beliefs, without 'experiencing' any of them. By reason. Again. I mean, what the hell could experiencing non-belief possibly mean? It's syntactic without being semantic. I'm obviously not smart enough. Thank God.

You are too kind in your opinions of others here...my experience is that it is 99.999999....99 percent noise...I am only here for that infinitesimal fraction of a percent.

Anyhow: reason has limits, as reason is limits. Reason is nice, not necessary though. Proof of infinity can be found in a line segment...rational does not supplant simple awareness. One only has to look at a point in space to experience infinity....which is quite beautiful and disturbing if really contemplated.

That fact that you can experience infinity puts those non-beliefs in the realm of experience and what is absent of belief only occurs by being distinct to belief thus resulting in these "things" being intertwined and inseperable in many regards.

A Rice Krispie is only here until it goes pop.

Life is a cereal killer.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:47 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 10:34 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 6:06 pm
Common sense is relative. What appears as common to a third world tribe differs from what appears as common to a 1st world citizen. Even in the modern world common sense is fragmented into cliques due to social media revealing different groups of perceptions among people....or I can point to the obvious and use this forum as an example.

Indeed. I'm a first worlder. And this is my social medium. All others are utter and complete noise. This forum is afflicted with 98.4% noise. So, common sense reasoning, i.e. the reasoning of the man on the Clapham omnibus. the reasoning that says, yeah, yeah, yeah, we all pull ourselves out of the mire, horse and all, by our own hair, even Kant couldn't escape axioms, but. It's bleedin' obvious that there are infinite non-beliefs, without 'experiencing' any of them. By reason. Again. I mean, what the hell could experiencing non-belief possibly mean? It's syntactic without being semantic. I'm obviously not smart enough. Thank God.

You are too kind in your opinions of others here...my experience is that it is 99.999999....99 percent noise...I am only here for that infinitesimal fraction of a percent.

Anyhow: reason has limits, as reason is limits. Reason is nice, not necessary though. Proof of infinity can be found in a line segment...rational does not supplant simple awareness. One only has to look at a point in space to experience infinity....which is quite beautiful and disturbing if really contemplated.

That fact that you can experience infinity puts those non-beliefs in the realm of experience and what is absent of belief only occurs by being distinct to belief thus resulting in these "things" being intertwined and inseperable in many regards.

That, Sir, gives me pause. The final paragraph. As young Dickie Dawkins said of Julian Jaynes' The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, and I paraphrase, it's either brilliant or bollocks. And I'm sorry for the 98.4% bloody noise in my responses. I am dim but dogged. I experience the concept of infinity(=reality) and even that is vertiginous, as per your 2nd para. And yeah, reason can only go so far, an absurdly limited bone cave painting of Plato's shadow, as per Jack Haldane's 'the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose'.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 11:46 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:47 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 04, 2025 10:34 pm
Indeed. I'm a first worlder. And this is my social medium. All others are utter and complete noise. This forum is afflicted with 98.4% noise. So, common sense reasoning, i.e. the reasoning of the man on the Clapham omnibus. the reasoning that says, yeah, yeah, yeah, we all pull ourselves out of the mire, horse and all, by our own hair, even Kant couldn't escape axioms, but. It's bleedin' obvious that there are infinite non-beliefs, without 'experiencing' any of them. By reason. Again. I mean, what the hell could experiencing non-belief possibly mean? It's syntactic without being semantic. I'm obviously not smart enough. Thank God.

You are too kind in your opinions of others here...my experience is that it is 99.999999....99 percent noise...I am only here for that infinitesimal fraction of a percent.

Anyhow: reason has limits, as reason is limits. Reason is nice, not necessary though. Proof of infinity can be found in a line segment...rational does not supplant simple awareness. One only has to look at a point in space to experience infinity....which is quite beautiful and disturbing if really contemplated.

That fact that you can experience infinity puts those non-beliefs in the realm of experience and what is absent of belief only occurs by being distinct to belief thus resulting in these "things" being intertwined and inseperable in many regards.

That, Sir, gives me pause. The final paragraph. As young Dickie Dawkins said of Julian Jaynes' The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, and I paraphrase, it's either brilliant or bollocks. And I'm sorry for the 98.4% bloody noise in my responses. I am dim but dogged. I experience the concept of infinity(=reality) and even that is vertiginous, as per your 2nd para. And yeah, reason can only go so far, an absurdly limited bone cave painting of Plato's shadow, as per Jack Haldane's 'the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose'.

No, you are not dim...people like you are just rare. The vast majority here are blind. You do not give that impression.
.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 9:33 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 11:46 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 7:47 am

You are too kind in your opinions of others here...my experience is that it is 99.999999....99 percent noise...I am only here for that infinitesimal fraction of a percent.

Anyhow: reason has limits, as reason is limits. Reason is nice, not necessary though. Proof of infinity can be found in a line segment...rational does not supplant simple awareness. One only has to look at a point in space to experience infinity....which is quite beautiful and disturbing if really contemplated.

That fact that you can experience infinity puts those non-beliefs in the realm of experience and what is absent of belief only occurs by being distinct to belief thus resulting in these "things" being intertwined and inseperable in many regards.

That, Sir, gives me pause. The final paragraph. As young Dickie Dawkins said of Julian Jaynes' The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, and I paraphrase, it's either brilliant or bollocks. And I'm sorry for the 98.4% bloody noise in my responses. I am dim but dogged. I experience the concept of infinity(=reality) and even that is vertiginous, as per your 2nd para. And yeah, reason can only go so far, an absurdly limited bone cave painting of Plato's shadow, as per Jack Haldane's 'the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose'.

No, you are not dim...people like you are just rare. The vast majority here are blind. You do not give that impression.
.

I assure you that I am shallow end Mensa, barely top 2%, probably not in to the 3rd sigma. [WEE-WEE END OF THE POOL!] You strike me as well in. I am, however, somewhat 'neurodivergent'. Shallow end ADHD, OCD, neurotic. Diagnosed shallow end endogenously 'mildly' clinically depressed once. My God! If that's shallow end! Still preferable to the meds! Luckily I am extremely superficial and easily distracted by beauty of every kind. But back then, 2007, for 6 months, I couldn't read. No distraction worked.

I wouldn't want to be anyone else. Shame and confusion and loss included. Just wish I had a hundred thousand hours left to become good at maths, music, philosophy, art, writing, politics, psychology, being a decent human being, love and may be an a nudge in to the 3rd sigma to help that along.

I have had the scales of 50 years of belief ripped from my eyes. Still smarting.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 11:57 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 9:33 am

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 06, 2025 11:46 am
That, Sir, gives me pause. The final paragraph. As young Dickie Dawkins said of Julian Jaynes' The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, and I paraphrase, it's either brilliant or bollocks. And I'm sorry for the 98.4% bloody noise in my responses. I am dim but dogged. I experience the concept of infinity(=reality) and even that is vertiginous, as per your 2nd para. And yeah, reason can only go so far, an absurdly limited bone cave painting of Plato's shadow, as per Jack Haldane's 'the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose'.

No, you are not dim...people like you are just rare. The vast majority here are blind. You do not give that impression.
.

I assure you that I am shallow end Mensa, barely top 2%, probably not in to the 3rd sigma. You strike me as well in. I am, however, somewhat 'neurodivergent'. Shallow end ADHD, OCD, neurotic. Diagnosed shallow end endogenously 'mildly' clinically depressed once. My God! If that's shallow end! Still preferable to the meds! Luckily I am extremely superficial and easily distracted by beauty of every kind. But back then, 2008, for 6 months, I couldn't read. No distraction worked.

I wouldn't want to be anyone else. Shame and confusion and loss included. Just wish I had a hundred thousand hours left to become good at maths, music, philosophy, art, writing, politics, psychology, being a decent human being, love and may be an extra 1% sigma to help that along.

I have had the scales of 50 years of belief ripped from my eyes. Still smarting.

Identity is like an onion, it has multiple layers that when peeled away brings tears to the eyes.

Maybe false belief as to who you thought you are and what the world is where stripped away...but the benefit to that is a lighter load and more value on what you do see. Life is a yin yang: tragedy and triumph, beauty and horror appear through eachother...as far as I am aware.

I have learned, the hard way, sometimes meaning is best found in simply reducing what can be reduced and then paying attention to what remains after the clutter is gone.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:07 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 11:57 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 9:33 am

No, you are not dim...people like you are just rare. The vast majority here are blind. You do not give that impression.
.

I assure you that I am shallow end Mensa, barely top 2%, probably not in to the 3rd sigma. You strike me as well in. I am, however, somewhat 'neurodivergent'. Shallow end ADHD, OCD, neurotic. Diagnosed shallow end endogenously 'mildly' clinically depressed once. My God! If that's shallow end! Still preferable to the meds! Luckily I am extremely superficial and easily distracted by beauty of every kind. But back then, 2008, for 6 months, I couldn't read. No distraction worked.

I wouldn't want to be anyone else. Shame and confusion and loss included. Just wish I had a hundred thousand hours left to become good at maths, music, philosophy, art, writing, politics, psychology, being a decent human being, love and may be an extra 1% sigma to help that along.

I have had the scales of 50 years of belief ripped from my eyes. Still smarting.

Identity is like an onion, it has multiple layers that when peeled away brings tears to the eyes.

Maybe false belief as to who you thought you are and what the world is where stripped away...but the benefit to that is a lighter load and more value on what you do see. Life is a yin yang: tragedy and triumph, beauty and horror appear through eachother...as far as I am aware.

I have learned, the hard way, sometimes meaning is best found in simply reducing what can be reduced and then paying attention to what remains after the clutter is gone.

Absolutely. So much clutter has gone. It even puts the intrusive thinking, the shame, the rumination, in to slightly more detachable relief. I would not go back, tho' I yearn for absolute meaning, for significance. For Love to be the ground of being. So I must try and feebly make it so anyway. Shower the ones I love with love. (James Taylor).

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:19 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:07 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 11:57 am
I assure you that I am shallow end Mensa, barely top 2%, probably not in to the 3rd sigma. You strike me as well in. I am, however, somewhat 'neurodivergent'. Shallow end ADHD, OCD, neurotic. Diagnosed shallow end endogenously 'mildly' clinically depressed once. My God! If that's shallow end! Still preferable to the meds! Luckily I am extremely superficial and easily distracted by beauty of every kind. But back then, 2008, for 6 months, I couldn't read. No distraction worked.

I wouldn't want to be anyone else. Shame and confusion and loss included. Just wish I had a hundred thousand hours left to become good at maths, music, philosophy, art, writing, politics, psychology, being a decent human being, love and may be an extra 1% sigma to help that along.

I have had the scales of 50 years of belief ripped from my eyes. Still smarting.

Identity is like an onion, it has multiple layers that when peeled away brings tears to the eyes.

Maybe false belief as to who you thought you are and what the world is where stripped away...but the benefit to that is a lighter load and more value on what you do see. Life is a yin yang: tragedy and triumph, beauty and horror appear through eachother...as far as I am aware.

I have learned, the hard way, sometimes meaning is best found in simply reducing what can be reduced and then paying attention to what remains after the clutter is gone.

Absolutely. So much clutter has gone. It even puts the intrusive thinking, the shame, the rumination, in to slightly more detachable relief. I would not go back, tho' I yearn for absolute meaning, for significance. For Love to be the ground of being. So I must try and feebly make it so anyway. Shower the ones I love with love. (James Taylor).

I have learned that who or what you decide to make sacrifices for will naturally yield a sense of love and meaning for that person(s) or thing(s)...even though the process often is painful and not easy. Things of value, love and meaning in this case, become a matter of choice in many respects and in other regards are earned by what we decide to let go of.

Sacrifice is the same as letting go and these things force us to have value on what we do have.

Food for thought.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:28 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:19 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:07 pm

Identity is like an onion, it has multiple layers that when peeled away brings tears to the eyes.

Maybe false belief as to who you thought you are and what the world is where stripped away...but the benefit to that is a lighter load and more value on what you do see. Life is a yin yang: tragedy and triumph, beauty and horror appear through eachother...as far as I am aware.

I have learned, the hard way, sometimes meaning is best found in simply reducing what can be reduced and then paying attention to what remains after the clutter is gone.

Absolutely. So much clutter has gone. It even puts the intrusive thinking, the shame, the rumination, in to slightly more detachable relief. I would not go back, tho' I yearn for absolute meaning, for significance. For Love to be the ground of being. So I must try and feebly make it so anyway. Shower the ones I love with love. (James Taylor).

I have learned that who or what you decide to make sacrifices for will naturally yield a sense of love and meaning for that person(s) or thing(s)...even though the process often is painful and not easy. Things of value, love and meaning in this case, become a matter of choice in many respects and in other regards are earned by what we decide to let go of.

Sacrifice is the same as letting go and these things force us to have value on what we do have.

Food for thought.

A banquet, a feast. Now what do we do?!

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:36 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:28 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:19 pm
Absolutely. So much clutter has gone. It even puts the intrusive thinking, the shame, the rumination, in to slightly more detachable relief. I would not go back, tho' I yearn for absolute meaning, for significance. For Love to be the ground of being. So I must try and feebly make it so anyway. Shower the ones I love with love. (James Taylor).

I have learned that who or what you decide to make sacrifices for will naturally yield a sense of love and meaning for that person(s) or thing(s)...even though the process often is painful and not easy. Things of value, love and meaning in this case, become a matter of choice in many respects and in other regards are earned by what we decide to let go of.

Sacrifice is the same as letting go and these things force us to have value on what we do have.

Food for thought.

A banquet, a feast. Now what do we do?!

Eat until the hunger ceases, say "thanks", and then walk away. Things occur until they do not.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:42 pm

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:36 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:28 pm

I have learned that who or what you decide to make sacrifices for will naturally yield a sense of love and meaning for that person(s) or thing(s)...even though the process often is painful and not easy. Things of value, love and meaning in this case, become a matter of choice in many respects and in other regards are earned by what we decide to let go of.

Sacrifice is the same as letting go and these things force us to have value on what we do have.

Food for thought.

A banquet, a feast. Now what do we do?!

Eat until the hunger ceases, say "thanks", and then walk away. Things occur until they do not.

Yep. A shared repast. For which I'm grateful. And needs must we must walk on on our paths. Go well friend.