Re: No eternal expansion?
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 7:39 pm
So what's a better reason than absolute symmetry?Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 7:27 pmThere is for me.
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So what's a better reason than absolute symmetry?Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 7:27 pmThere is for me.
I wouldn't invoke that aesthetic in the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.
Well simplest would be to say that we don't know whether or not there is absolute symmetry, and we also don't know whether or not the universe will expand until that is meaningless. Because we really don't.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:00 pmI wouldn't invoke that aesthetic on the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.
That's simplest for you. Not to push the boat of reason out. Not for me.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:04 pmWell simplest would be to say that we don't know whether or not there is absolute symmetry, and we also don't know whether or not the universe will expand until that is meaningless. Because we really don't.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:00 pmI wouldn't invoke that aesthetic on the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.
Sounds like your reason is just some hidden axiom that's inferior to absolute symmetry. Can be correct, anything is possible.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:08 pmThat's simplest for you. Not to push the boat of reason out. Not for me.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:04 pmWell simplest would be to say that we don't know whether or not there is absolute symmetry, and we also don't know whether or not the universe will expand until that is meaningless. Because we really don't.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:00 pm
I wouldn't invoke that aesthetic on the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.
Parsimony is the self evident truth. Not the results of using it.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:14 pmSounds like your reason is just some hidden axiom that's inferior to absolute symmetry. Can be correct, anything is possible.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:08 pmThat's simplest for you. Not to push the boat of reason out. Not for me.
Well a symmetrical universe can easily be finite, and an infinitely expanding universe is well, infinite. Unless time eventually stops or whatever. So symmetry could be the more parsimonious idea.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:19 pmParsimony is the self evident truth. Not the results of using it.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:14 pmSounds like your reason is just some hidden axiom that's inferior to absolute symmetry. Can be correct, anything is possible.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:08 pm
That's simplest for you. Not to push the boat of reason out. Not for me.
As your axiom symmetry has more entities in it, by definition, it isn't and can't be.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:29 pmWell a symmetrical universe can easily be finite, and an infinitely expanding universe is well, infinite. Unless time eventually stops or whatever. So symmetry could be the more parsimonious idea.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:19 pmParsimony is the self evident truth. Not the results of using it.
'This one' has gone utterly completely insane, here. it is actually believing that some one, here, has achieved omniscience. Which is obviously the most Truly absurd and ridiculous thing that any one could think, let alone believe, and then say and claim.
And, just like one knew how the solar system works before any one else did, so to one can and will know how the Universe works before others, like "yourself" do.
This is nonsensical, as it relates to nothing specific.
Again, this one believing its own made up assumptions are true and right have set it completely insane.
Well, obviously, 'you' "pistolero" are the only one, here, making up the most craziest of claims.
Again, more signs of absolutely delusional thinking and hallucinations.
Ah okay. So, when "atla" says and writes the word 'universe' it is never referring to the 'universe', itself. What "atla" is actually referring to is just a very tiny and very insignificant part of the Universe, Itself, only.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 3:38 pmThis topic, and science generally, never deals with the entire universe, because it can't.Age wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 4:36 amAgain, I have never talked about the 'known universe'. I have talked about the 'entire Universe, so that is not what what the 'entire Universe' refers to.But, again, I have, obviously, not talking about it. I have, obviously, been talking about the 'entire Universe'.
A part of the Universe is really not even worth talking about, here.
But, what the Universe, Itself, fundamentally consists of and is made up of, exactly, I already know. Along with how the Universe, Itself, actually works I already know, as well. Along with the Fact that the Universe is eternal, and infinite, are also already known, by me.
It may well appear as 'nothing', now. Considering that you were not even talking about nor referring to an actual 'eternal expansion' at all, after all.
But, you are about things, here, correct?
But, why does the so-called 'known universe' make no sense yet to you "atla"?Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 5:42 pmUgh how do I put it.. It's my chosen axiom that symmetry is the best. I can't imagine perfection, completeness without inherent symmetry. Perfection IS symmetry itself imo. I think that without symmetry, nothing makes sense. The known universe is asymmetric and therefore makes no sense by itself, so hopefully it's part of a larger symmetric total universe.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 5:27 pm Absolute symmetry. Uh huh. What goes up must come down. How is that the best?
1. The 'known universe' making no sense, at all, to you, never means that it makes no sense, to another.
That 'you' believe, and say, things like 'this' 'about me', fits in absolutely perfectly with 'the message' that I have been saying, showing, and sharing, here.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 6:24 pmEcmandu is pretty famous so I read a few of his posts, he's indeed pretty good, but Age is still crazier than him. I don't think anyone can beat Age when it comes to being crazy.Pistolero wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 1:01 pm The man-child has achieved omniscience....he is certain.
He know how the universe works.
No confirmation bias, there.
It is all known to him.
Another crazy......why is the internet so full of them, these days.
Is that you Ecmandu?
Ecmandu is ILP's man-god...
Has he transported himself across space-time to this local?
The 'very words' that say, use, and write, here.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 6:37 pmAnd what gave you the impression that I'm not doing that?Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 6:34 pmThanks. I sympathise. But I just go with the facts and reason. And speculate accordingly.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 5:42 pm
Ugh how do I put it.. It's my chosen axiom that symmetry is the best. I can't imagine perfection, completeness without inherent symmetry. Perfection IS symmetry itself imo. I think that without symmetry, nothing makes sense. The known universe is asymmetric and therefore makes no sense by itself, so hopefully it's part of a larger symmetric total universe.
I can be wrong of course, maybe reality is indeed asymmetric. Then all we can do is describe how the known universe behaves, note that it makes no sense, and also note that we can't speculate beyond the known universe.
But if by the word "logical" we just mean how concepts are related to each other, then whatever.
So, 'this one' believes, absolutely, that all of the 'many universes' are expanding. Which makes one wonder when they collide what happens, exactly.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:00 pmI wouldn't invoke that aesthetic in the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.
Obviously you people, here, in the days when this is being written do not yet know, just like the people in the days previously did not yet know how the solar system worked. But, some of you people, here, will catch up, and know as well, just like some people 'caught up' and learned, and knew, how the solar system works, as well.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:04 pmWell simplest would be to say that we don't know whether or not there is absolute symmetry, and we also don't know whether or not the universe will expand until that is meaningless. Because we really don't.Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 23, 2025 8:00 pmI wouldn't invoke that aesthetic on the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.