No eternal expansion?

[Atla]

I thought you said we can't?

Oh sorry, I meant that then we can't speculate based on reason because there is no reason.

There is for me.

So what's a better reason than absolute symmetry?

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Oh sorry, I meant that then we can't speculate based on reason because there is no reason.

There is for me.

So what's a better reason than absolute symmetry?

I wouldn't invoke that aesthetic in the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.

[Atla]

There is for me.

So what's a better reason than absolute symmetry?

I wouldn't invoke that aesthetic on the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.

Well simplest would be to say that we don't know whether or not there is absolute symmetry, and we also don't know whether or not the universe will expand until that is meaningless. Because we really don't.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

So what's a better reason than absolute symmetry?

I wouldn't invoke that aesthetic on the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.

Well simplest would be to say that we don't know whether or not there is absolute symmetry, and we also don't know whether or not the universe will expand until that is meaningless. Because we really don't.

That's simplest for you. Not to push the boat of reason out. Not for me.

[Atla]

I wouldn't invoke that aesthetic on the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.

Well simplest would be to say that we don't know whether or not there is absolute symmetry, and we also don't know whether or not the universe will expand until that is meaningless. Because we really don't.

That's simplest for you. Not to push the boat of reason out. Not for me.

Sounds like your reason is just some hidden axiom that's inferior to absolute symmetry. Can be correct, anything is possible.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Well simplest would be to say that we don't know whether or not there is absolute symmetry, and we also don't know whether or not the universe will expand until that is meaningless. Because we really don't.

That's simplest for you. Not to push the boat of reason out. Not for me.

Sounds like your reason is just some hidden axiom that's inferior to absolute symmetry. Can be correct, anything is possible.

Parsimony is the self evident truth. Not the results of using it.

[Atla]

That's simplest for you. Not to push the boat of reason out. Not for me.

Sounds like your reason is just some hidden axiom that's inferior to absolute symmetry. Can be correct, anything is possible.

Parsimony is the self evident truth. Not the results of using it.

Well a symmetrical universe can easily be finite, and an infinitely expanding universe is well, infinite. Unless time eventually stops or whatever. So symmetry could be the more parsimonious idea.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Sounds like your reason is just some hidden axiom that's inferior to absolute symmetry. Can be correct, anything is possible.

Parsimony is the self evident truth. Not the results of using it.

Well a symmetrical universe can easily be finite, and an infinitely expanding universe is well, infinite. Unless time eventually stops or whatever. So symmetry could be the more parsimonious idea.

As your axiom symmetry has more entities in it, by definition, it isn't and can't be.

[Age]

The man-child has achieved omniscience....he is certain.

'This one' has gone utterly completely insane, here. it is actually believing that some one, here, has achieved omniscience. Which is obviously the most Truly absurd and ridiculous thing that any one could think, let alone believe, and then say and claim.

He know how the universe works.

And, just like one knew how the solar system works before any one else did, so to one can and will know how the Universe works before others, like "yourself" do.

What is so amazing or surprising about this Fact, here?

No confirmation bias, there.

This is nonsensical, as it relates to nothing specific.

It is all known to him.

Again, this one believing its own made up assumptions are true and right have set it completely insane.

'This one' is, actually, believing and claiming that every thing is known to some one, here.

How much more delusional could one get?

Another crazy......why is the internet so full of them, these days.

Well, obviously, 'you' "pistolero" are the only one, here, making up the most craziest of claims.

Is that you Ecmandu?
Ecmandu is ILP's man-god...
Has he transported himself across space-time to this local?

Again, more signs of absolutely delusional thinking and hallucinations.

[Age]

Again, that's not what the known universe refers to.

Again, I have never talked about the 'known universe'. I have talked about the 'entire Universe, so that is not what what the 'entire Universe' refers to.

Let's see if you can look up on the internet what it refers to, any normally functioning person can easily do that.

But, again, I have, obviously, not talking about it. I have, obviously, been talking about the 'entire Universe'.

A part of the Universe is really not even worth talking about, here.

Again, you also aren't omniscient about the nature of the entire universe, or about anything else.

But, what the Universe, Itself, fundamentally consists of and is made up of, exactly, I already know. Along with how the Universe, Itself, actually works I already know, as well. Along with the Fact that the Universe is eternal, and infinite, are also already known, by me.

This topic, and science generally, never deals with the entire universe, because it can't.

Ah okay. So, when "atla" says and writes the word 'universe' it is never referring to the 'universe', itself. What "atla" is actually referring to is just a very tiny and very insignificant part of the Universe, Itself, only.

So, if "atla" ever starts a thread called, for example, 'No eternal expansion', "atla" is not actually talking about nor referring to 'an actual eternal expansion' but on about 'an expansion' in a very tiny insignificant part of the Universe, itself. Which obviously would make the 'eternal' word in the thread title completely and utterly redundant.

So what were you criticizing?

It may well appear as 'nothing', now. Considering that you were not even talking about nor referring to an actual 'eternal expansion' at all, after all.

Also, you aren't omniscient about the nature of the entire universe, or about anything else.

But, you are about things, here, correct?

[Age]

Absolute symmetry. Uh huh. What goes up must come down. How is that the best?

Ugh how do I put it.. It's my chosen axiom that symmetry is the best. I can't imagine perfection, completeness without inherent symmetry. Perfection IS symmetry itself imo. I think that without symmetry, nothing makes sense. The known universe is asymmetric and therefore makes no sense by itself, so hopefully it's part of a larger symmetric total universe.

But, why does the so-called 'known universe' make no sense yet to you "atla"?

What are you so lost and/or confused about in relation to the 'known universe', exactly?

Also, the so-called 'known universe' is very, very different among you human beings.

I can be wrong of course, maybe reality is indeed asymmetric. Then all we can do is describe how the known universe behaves, note that it makes no sense, and also note that we can't speculate beyond the known universe.

1. The 'known universe' making no sense, at all, to you, never means that it makes no sense, to another.

2. you human beings can, and do, speculate about a lot of things, including obviously beyond what you 'know' about the so-called 'known universe'.

3. In fact speculating is a very, very easy and simply thing that a lot of you adult human beings just keep doing. In Fact you adult human beings 'speculate, guess, presume, model, and/or theorize so often that you keep forgetting that you can, instead, just 'look at', 'seeing', 'comprehend', 'understand', and 'know' what the actual and irrefutable Truths are, HERE, exactly, and fully.

But if by the word "logical" we just mean how concepts are related to each other, then whatever.

[Age]

The man-child has achieved omniscience....he is certain.
He know how the universe works.
No confirmation bias, there.

It is all known to him.
Another crazy......why is the internet so full of them, these days.

Is that you Ecmandu?
Ecmandu is ILP's man-god...
Has he transported himself across space-time to this local?

Ecmandu is pretty famous so I read a few of his posts, he's indeed pretty good, but Age is still crazier than him. I don't think anyone can beat Age when it comes to being crazy.

That 'you' believe, and say, things like 'this' 'about me', fits in absolutely perfectly with 'the message' that I have been saying, showing, and sharing, here.

[Age]

Ugh how do I put it.. It's my chosen axiom that symmetry is the best. I can't imagine perfection, completeness without inherent symmetry. Perfection IS symmetry itself imo. I think that without symmetry, nothing makes sense. The known universe is asymmetric and therefore makes no sense by itself, so hopefully it's part of a larger symmetric total universe.

I can be wrong of course, maybe reality is indeed asymmetric. Then all we can do is describe how the known universe behaves, note that it makes no sense, and also note that we can't speculate beyond the known universe.

But if by the word "logical" we just mean how concepts are related to each other, then whatever.

Thanks. I sympathise. But I just go with the facts and reason. And speculate accordingly.

And what gave you the impression that I'm not doing that?

The 'very words' that say, use, and write, here.

[Age]

There is for me.

So what's a better reason than absolute symmetry?

I wouldn't invoke that aesthetic in the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.

So, 'this one' believes, absolutely, that all of the 'many universes' are expanding. Which makes one wonder when they collide what happens, exactly.

[Age]

So what's a better reason than absolute symmetry?

I wouldn't invoke that aesthetic on the first place. The universe will expand until that is meaningless. Like they all do. That's simplest.

Well simplest would be to say that we don't know whether or not there is absolute symmetry, and we also don't know whether or not the universe will expand until that is meaningless. Because we really don't.

Obviously you people, here, in the days when this is being written do not yet know, just like the people in the days previously did not yet know how the solar system worked. But, some of you people, here, will catch up, and know as well, just like some people 'caught up' and learned, and knew, how the solar system works, as well.

Obviously, some just 'catch up' quicker, than others, and what is also obvious is some never ever get to 'catch up at all.

And, for the very reasons I have been explaining, and showing, here.