Philosophy Now Forum

the comments on this early Bob Dylan song are encouraging,

people are gonna get tired of computerized music eventually, your soul can feel these things.

I am so tired of synthetically written lyrics and melody

electronics & rap have killed people ears and consumerism has killed their souls.

Blowing In The Wind

Janoah wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 1:09 am I believe that I can prove that the music of electronic musical instruments, electric guitars, is not art, but an illusion of art. This illusion is global and ruins true art. Natural music remained almost exclusively in classical music.

I, on the other hand, believe that you cannot prove that music from electric/electronic instruments cannot produce art. First, because art in all its forms has always been produced with objects designed and constructed by humans, objects that would never be found in nature. Secondly, the concept of art itself defies the notion of “natural”. Art is the product of human imagination.

Janoah wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 1:09 am I believe that I can prove that the music of electronic musical instruments, electric guitars, is not art, but an illusion of art. This illusion is global and ruins true art. Natural music remained almost exclusively in classical music.
I suggest putting natural music in this topic.

The voice is the natural instrument.
Musical instruments imitate the voice.

Magnificat
Arvo Pärt
Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04XKjal0grI

Songs of Grieg
Sissel Kyrkjebø - Solveigs Song


Meanwhile,
'Throughout his life, Edvard Grieg held strong personal and political views that often transcended the realm of opinion to become defining worldviews and principles…
In response to what he perceived as the unjust anti-Semitism of the Dreyfus affair, on Sept. 12, 1899, Grieg wrote a letter three days after Dreyfus’ second guilty verdict, turning down a prestigious concert invitation from his friend, the French violinist, conductor, and concert promoter, Édouard Colonne…
Grieg was alone among the major musicians of his era in adopting such an open and defiant stance in the struggle to reinstate a Jewish army officer. He received hate mail, death threats, and lost several friends and many engagements as a consequence.'
Edvard Grieg takes a stand

Janoah wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 1:09 am I believe that I can prove that the music of electronic musical instruments, electric guitars, is not art, but an illusion of art. This illusion is global and ruins true art. Natural music remained almost exclusively in classical music.
I suggest putting natural music in this topic.
To begin with, I put an Israeli song on words from the Tanakh performed by an Indonesian ensemble. They sing in the original language of the Tanakh, Hebrew, and the translation is in English, -
"Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the LORD."
(Jeremiah 31:20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUPzpsqCils&t=2s

As a matter of curiosity, what to do think of the following?
https://nobusinessrecords.bandcamp.com/ ... sparren-iv

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 1:55 am Please define 'music'.

Music is energy, frequencies, and vibrations, the recipe of life itself, full of drama, adventure, sorrows, and joys, stirring the energies within.

can a metronome keep natural time?

-Imp

The meaning of 'music' is how people use the word 'music'. in a context. In a social context.

Janoah has not made it quite clear why electronic music does not deserve to be called music.

Grand Ensemble Filos - Apopsin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV9niDH7v7s

The New World Renaissance Band - Bassa Dance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iad9sw3diVQ

This is actually a cover of "Jouyssance vous donneray" by Thoinot Arbeau.

My favorite version:

Cover By: Tanedores & Reditus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_NbCnm0rdE

Another one:

Cover By: Organistrum Ensemble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo-cj61pcxE

Is this natural music? It sounds like brostep, popularly known as dubstep, but he only uses his voice.

WING - Dopamine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlrpeYd ... lrpeYdm9Ec

Magnus Anderson wrote: ↑Fri Sep 19, 2025 11:48 pm Is this natural music? It sounds like brostep, popularly known as dubstep, but he only uses his voice.

WING - Dopamine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlrpeYd ... lrpeYdm9Ec

Seems likely that his voice, at least in part, is being electronically altered. Any video of WING doing something similar without the use of a mic in an undeniably acoustic setting?

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sat Sep 20, 2025 1:06 am Seems likely that his voice, at least in part, is being electronically altered. Any video of WING doing something similar without the use of a mic in an undeniably acoustic setting?

He's not the only one doing that sort of thing. But then, that doesn't mean much.

There's this other video of him:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Old9bEn_lmA

Improver - Feel the Future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVZw7vQGR30

Some basic effects can be heard ( reverb and echo, for example. ) But that might be a minor thing that they generally add in beatbox competitions.

Magnus Anderson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 20, 2025 1:12 am

ThinkOfOne wrote: ↑Sat Sep 20, 2025 1:06 am Seems likely that his voice, at least in part, is being electronically altered. Any video of WING doing something similar without the use of a mic in an undeniably acoustic setting?

He's not the only one doing that sort of thing. But then, that doesn't mean much.

There's this other video of him:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Old9bEn_lmA

Still thinking that it's being electronically altered. In which case, I wouldn't think that it would fit the definition of "natural music" posited in the OP - even if limited to reverb and echo.

That said, there are some really remarkable things that are being done, and have been for decades, that do fit the definition of "natural music" posited in the OP. That said, I suspect that Jonoah would loathe it - as would most people for that matter. In fact, many, if not most, would recoil at the idea of it calling it 'music'.

Listen to the following from a quartet using only sax, violin, cello and percussion without electronic alteration of any kind.
https://meenna.bandcamp.com/album/sounds-of-assembly

I'd be interested in hearing what you think of it. In my book, it's great music truly deserving of the label "art" - unlike most of what's out there.