Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:13 am
Objectivity is outside all human or animal conscious awareness.
When you go to sleep at night, the sun, the moon, the earth all still exist.
Objective existence does not require Subjective experience, to exist.
You, your body, your life, your physical identity, still exists while you are in a coma.
........
You are too hasty in concluding what is 'objectivity is outside all human or animal conscious awareness" without consideration that are many valid alternative and opposing views to the above.
Originally, 'objective' is related to 'object' which is claimed to exist as absolutely mind-independent.
- object = a thing, person, or matter to which thought or action is directed:
The the idea of a mind-independent object is problematic and proven to be illusory by many philosophers, i.e.
-Berkeley refuted mind-independent 'materialism'
-Hume refuted a person is without a real personal identity but rather is a bundle of activities.
-Kant refuted the mind-independent thing-in-itself
-Russel doubted "perhaps there is no external table at all?"
-Modern Physics claimed "the moon does not exist if no humans look at it"
Science has given up the idea of a mind independent object but resort to 'physicalism', so it should be 'physicality' instead of 'objectivity'??
The old meaning of objectivity [confined to objects] has morphed into a view that is independent of human bias, generally "a" person's opinion, beliefs, judgment and idea.
e.g.
Journalistic objectivity is the reporting of facts and news with minimal personal bias or in an impartial or politically neutral manner.
but more importantly is 'scientific objectivity'
Scientific Objectivity
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39286
which is independent
a scientist's but rather scientific objectivity is conditioned upon the specific
human-based scientific Framework and System of Realization and Knowledge [FSR-FSK].
This mean the "Law of Motion" is true and objective not because Newton said so, but rather the Newtonian
FSR-FSK supported by a
community of scientists said so. It is the same with the Theory of General Gravity or QM's principles, or Principles from Chemistry, Biology and other scientific fields.
As such, the modern view of 'objective' and 'objectivity' of
any claim of reality is conditioned upon a human-based
FSR-FSK supported by a
community of adherents, i.e. not one person or a disorganized loose group of people.
Because the FSR-FSK is human-based, whatever that follows [objectivity, reality, beliefs, etc.] CANNOT be absolutely mind-independent.
There is no objective realm that is independent of the human conditions.
Whatever is objective must be coupled with the human conditions.
So, whatever the claim, as long as it is a organized or institutionalized human-based
FSR-FSK supported by a
community of adherents, the claims are objective.
But there are degrees to 'what is objective reality' ranging from 0.001% to 99.99% depending on the credibility and reliability of the said FSR-FSK.
To date, the human-based scientific FSR-FSK [in its best] is the most credible and reliable among all other FSR-FSK in terms of its objectivity and claims of reality.
What Source of Knowledge is More Credible than Science?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40044
Scientific Knowledge is the Most Credible & Trustworthy?
Why the Scientific FSK is the Most Credible and Reliable
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=39585
In this case the scientific FSK is the standard all other FSKs are compared with.
Organized Theism as a religion is definitely an organized or institutionalized human-based
FSR-FSK supported by a
community of adherents, thus it claims are qualified to be objective.
But in contrast to the objectivity of the scientific FSK, the theistic FSK has 0.0001 degrees of objectivity because it is grounded on a God which is illusory.
It is Impossible for God to be Real
viewtopic.php?t=40229
As argued, there is no Objective Realm that is absolutely mind-independent which exists even if there are no humans around.
