Philosophy Now Forum

Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:34 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:59 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:02 am

AGAIN, you have a SERIOUS ISSUE with being ABLE TO just CLARIFY your OWN position.

You have a serious issue with understanding the basics, such as eternity can be reached!

Did you REALLY mean the 'can' word here?

Yes.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:38 pm

Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:34 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:59 am
You have a serious issue with understanding the basics, such as eternity can be reached!

Did you REALLY mean the 'can' word here?

Yes.

So, can eternity be reached or not?

Everything and everyone's existence depends on something else without exception.

What do you mean by the word "free"?

Age wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:37 am

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:38 pm

Age wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:34 am

Did you REALLY mean the 'can' word here?

Yes.

So, can eternity be reached or not?

It cannot be reached.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:52 am Everything and everyone's existence depends on something else without exception.

That leads to an infinite regress.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:52 am What do you mean by the word "free"?

By free I mean that one option can be chosen disregarding preference for example.

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:27 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:52 am Everything and everyone's existence depends on something else without exception.

That leads to an infinite regress.

No really. Things die too.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:52 am What do you mean by the word "free"?

By free I mean that one option can be chosen disregarding preference for example.

That is a contradiction.
You say:
one option can be chosen disregarding preference for example.
which means the same as.
one can prefer an option disregarding choice for example.
or
I can chose a thing I did not want to chose.

It's not very helpful, nor is it any kind of definition.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:27 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:52 am Everything and everyone's existence depends on something else without exception.

That leads to an infinite regress.

No really. Things die too.

What? How is that related to what I said?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:52 am What do you mean by the word "free"?

By free I mean that one option can be chosen disregarding preference for example.

That is a contradiction.
You say:
one option can be chosen disregarding preference for example.
which means the same as.
one can prefer an option disregarding choice for example.
or
I can chose a thing I did not want to chose.

It's not very helpful, nor is it any kind of definition.

It means that I can choose a thing I don't want to choose.

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:39 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:27 pm
That leads to an infinite regress.

No really. Things die too.

What? How is that related to what I said?

IN a world where things have ending, regresses cannot be infinite.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm

By free I mean that one option can be chosen disregarding preference for example.

That is a contradiction.
You say:
one option can be chosen disregarding preference for example.
which means the same as.
one can prefer an option disregarding choice for example.
or
I can chose a thing I did not want to chose.

It's not very helpful, nor is it any kind of definition.

It means that I can choose a thing I don't want to choose.

But if you chose it, you have to have wanted to.
You can never really do something against your will unless someone is threatening you.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:24 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:39 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm
No really. Things die too.

What? How is that related to what I said?

IN a world where things have ending, regresses cannot be infinite.

I am talking about vertical causation rather than horizontal causation.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:24 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm That is a contradiction.
You say:
one option can be chosen disregarding preference for example.
which means the same as.
one can prefer an option disregarding choice for example.
or
I can chose a thing I did not want to chose.

It's not very helpful, nor is it any kind of definition.

It means that I can choose a thing I don't want to choose.

But if you chose it, you have to have wanted to.

Yes, I choose it but for no specific reason.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm You can never really do something against your will unless someone is threatening you.

I can choose what I don't like for no specific reason. Can't you?

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:34 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:24 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:39 pm
What? How is that related to what I said?

IN a world where things have ending, regresses cannot be infinite.

I am talking about vertical causation rather than horizontal causation.

That is gibberish.
All causality is multiplicitous. Nothing can have a single cause, so descriptors such as horizontal or vertical are meaningless.
There can be no regress. The arrow of time is unidirectional.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:24 pm

It means that I can choose a thing I don't want to choose.

But if you chose it, you have to have wanted to.

Yes, I choose it but for no specific reason.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm You can never really do something against your will unless someone is threatening you.

I can choose what I don't like for no specific reason. Can't you?

No you cannot.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:00 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:34 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:24 pm
IN a world where things have ending, regresses cannot be infinite.

I am talking about vertical causation rather than horizontal causation.

That is gibberish.
All causality is multiplicitous. Nothing can have a single cause, so descriptors such as horizontal or vertical are meaningless.
There can be no regress. The arrow of time is unidirectional.

You don't understand the difference between two types of causation, vertical when something's existence depends on something else, and horizontal when something moves something else.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:00 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:24 pm

But if you chose it, you have to have wanted to.

Yes, I choose it but for no specific reason.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm You can never really do something against your will unless someone is threatening you.

I can choose what I don't like for no specific reason. Can't you?

No you cannot.

Yes I can.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:25 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:00 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:34 pm
I am talking about vertical causation rather than horizontal causation.

That is gibberish.
All causality is multiplicitous. Nothing can have a single cause, so descriptors such as horizontal or vertical are meaningless.
There can be no regress. The arrow of time is unidirectional.

You don't understand the difference between two types of causation, vertical when something's existence depends on something else, and horizontal when something moves something else.

What of it?
?
Give an example that relates to the matter at hand!

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:40 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:25 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:00 pm
That is gibberish.
All causality is multiplicitous. Nothing can have a single cause, so descriptors such as horizontal or vertical are meaningless.
There can be no regress. The arrow of time is unidirectional.

You don't understand the difference between two types of causation, vertical when something's existence depends on something else, and horizontal when something moves something else.

What of it?
?
Give an example that relates to the matter at hand!

Well, Catholics believe that the universe, including your body and soul, is sustained by God. They also believe that you are free. Here, I am providing an argument against their belief, God sustains you and you are free.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:42 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:40 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:25 pm
You don't understand the difference between two types of causation, vertical when something's existence depends on something else, and horizontal when something moves something else.

What of it?
?
Give an example that relates to the matter at hand!

Well, Catholics believe that the universe, including your body and soul, is sustained by God. They also believe that you are free. Here, I am providing an argument against their belief, God sustains you and you are free.

What Catholics believe or what you believe is meaningless.
Please give the example I asked for. re:"between two types of causation,"

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:58 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:42 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:40 pm

What of it?
?
Give an example that relates to the matter at hand!

Well, Catholics believe that the universe, including your body and soul, is sustained by God. They also believe that you are free. Here, I am providing an argument against their belief, God sustains you and you are free.

What Catholics believe or what you believe is meaningless.
Please give the example I asked for. re:"between two types of causation,"

Think of billiard balls. One billiard ball can move another one. This is horizontal causation. Something might sustain the billiard ball in existence. This is vertical causation, what Catholics believe is the vertical causation in which God sustains everything in existence.